Class 2 looks like trouble.
These are new definitions.
Class 2 looks like trouble.
These are new definitions.
Be Prepared
I stand corrected, that was how the original article I read stated the issue and part of the reason the thread was a question. Looking back, the horse reference may have been for multi-use trails. My comments regarding these machines stand however. Bikes illegally appear on hiking trails despite assurances from the mechanical community they do not, which if logic prevails, we will see these machines appear on them as well over time, camel's noses being what they are. That this was done in the dark of night without public comment is not typically how the NPS conducts its business and perhaps signals a change to a more secretive process.
Just like running or walking, cycling speed is limited by the landscape. There’s no way a E cyclist can maintain a fast, continuous speed on anything but a flat, well-graded trail. And even then, the cyclist is limited by battery life. Can you imagine an e cyclist going 20mph on the trails we hike? No, cuz it’s not possible.
E bikes are meant to provide short bursts of assistance. Those people who choose to use an e bike on a trail will already have a baseline level of physical fitness.
I believe the real reason people oppose this is because they don’t want more people outdoors, ruining “their experience”. It’s about entitlement, not sharing.
Would y’all really oppose a veteran with an amputation from using an e bike on an established MTB trail?
...and another point,
The studies I read during the MTB’s-on-trails-debate showed that hikers did more damage to trails than bikes. As a member of the cycling community, I know firsthand that cyclists hold each other accountable for their behavior and take their trail stewardship very seriously. Yesterday, I saw an MTB’er call out another for littering and (at least in this area) won’t bike in wet conditions so that the trails aren't damaged. How many hikers do that? Just look at the erosion on the AT for that answer.
My local trail (part of the Bay Circuit Trail that circles Boston) was a narrow single track for years and years. With the popularity of mountain bikes over the past 20 years, most of it is now literally as wide as a mountain road.
Makes is is easier to avoid ticks, but completely different character.
Cannot hike it now because we are at the highest risk level for EEE. More aerial spraying tonight. God help us if that scourge ever reaches the AT. Bigger threats out there than e-bikes.
Unfortunately, our cycling-unfriendly country has made it extremely hazardous to cycle on the roads so most of my friends have turned to MTB’ing. I’m still cycling on the road but expect to get hit any day. Sad but true. I’d love an E bike to extend my work commute and add in grocery shopping and errands.
As some who hikes and has built his own ebikes I need to add a few things.
Ebike laws vary from state to state. Pedal assist (you have to pedal to make it go but the motor helps out) is not always a requirement. Hand operate throttles are very common but not always allowed. Power level is controlled at a federal level but does not apply to home builts. Most ebikes allow the option of PAS (Pedal Assist) and throttle control.
IMHO this can all be laid at the feet of the handicap accessibility laws. Once you permit powered wheelchairs in a place for those who need them how can you legitimately keep out average Joes who want one too? It is a slippery slope that only those horribly cruel selfish jerks foresaw and now we get to enjoy the consequences.
Personally I would like to go back to the way it was, some trails for foot travel, some for bicycles, some for horses, some for dirt bikes/ATV's, some for 4x4's/fullsize vehicles but that ain't happening. Anyway, for more detailed info than you could ever want to know about ebikes I would suggest endlessphere.com.
For those who hate the idea of bicycles/ebikes on the trails all I can say is get used to it. Traditionalist all over are currently being dumped on by the new world order we are experiencing...
./~Hi ho, hi ho, it's up the trail I go ./~
Electric bikes do make you feel like Superman.
I got passed on on my regular bike by an electric unicycle last week (Minuteman Bikeway). I would have had to kill myself to keep up. Too cool. Bikeway ends at a subway station and it would have been real easy to carry on.
Seriously wished the NPS had allowed comment before the rule change, which include Class II E-bikes that are powered without pedaling and have a throttle. Though apparently this is not much of an issue with people, for me it signals a move to secretive rule making, which one can only imagine where that can lead. That, my friends, is the issue, but given the collective shrug its not worth discussion. Perhaps when NPS rules are changed in secrecy for timbering and oil exploration it may spark some interest in this process.
So basically, people are incensed about E bikes on trails because they weren’t asked first? I can understand that but don’t oppose the change, oppose the fundamental issue which is a broken political system...but political dialogue isn’t allowed on WB.
As far as all classes of e bikes being allowed on trails...
”Pizzi said Class 1 e-bikes are most appropriate on trails where mountain bikes are allowed. He said Class 2 and 3 e-bikes are better suited for a park's paved trails and bike lanes but each jurisdiction will establish its own rules."We are focused on Class 1," Pizzi said. "We don't want everyone to think this is unfettered access to federal lands all over the country for all types of e-bikes. Every jurisdiction will do what is appropriate and effective in their environment.”
Last edited by Traffic Jam; 09-14-2019 at 09:04.
Keep in mind that while Class II E-bikes do allow throttles, they still have limitations on speed... so it's not as if you could take a motorcycle, call it an E-bike and ride motor cycles on mountain bike trails.
i dont see anything wrong with your concerns. The biking community has for yrs lobbied to gain greater access to trails built by other communities. This creates problems on some trails such as narrowed single track of flatter nature where the dramatically different rates of speed can definitely cause issue with multi use. Hopefully, the NPS does not kowtow to the biking community. This is not simply a hiker entitlement issue as has been suggested. If what you're saying is correct - late night passage limiting public comment- it does not bode well for transparency.
I could be wrong but I don’t think the national Park is thinking about allowing bikes on hiking trails. Just allowing them to coexist in a national park trail system. For example on Acadia Carriage roads But not on acadia hiking trails. Basically on trails where bikes are currently allowed they want to make sure that also e-bikes are also allowed
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Let me go
Basically the point was missed, its not the bikes, its the issue of not seeking public comment for rule changes as the NPS typically does. Class II bikes are included in the rule change, but are said not to be allowed in NPs, how that will be enforced is anyones guess due to the secrecy of the rule change and its component pieces.
It's not about the bikes, its about secret changes to Federal rules. Is this a one time thing, or is this a test of public attention that leads to other rule changes behind closed doors. Not sure why few others are concerned about this and the potential it represents when rule changes go outside of the normal processes, however, indifference may have a price at some point.
By my reading of the actual Order all three classes of e-bikes are considered equivalent, and all three classes will be allowed on exiting bike trails.
Not sure why/how some could read the actual order differently. Am I missing something?
Excerpt from Order her:
Sec. 4 Policy. Consistent with governing laws and regulations:
a) For the purpose ofthis Order, "e-bikes" shall mean "low-speed electric bicycle" asdefined by 15 U.S.C. § 2085 and falling within one ofthe following classifications:
i) "Class 1 electric bicycle" shall mean an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour;
ii) "Class 2 electric bicycle" shall mean an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour; and
iii) "Class 3 electric bicycle" shall mean an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of28 miles per hour.
b) E-bikes shall be allowed where other types ofbicycles are allowed; and
c) E-bikes shall not be allowed where other types of bicycles are prohibited.
Full text of Order here:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/fi...kes_-508_0.pdf