I saw a large animal with a long tail on the AT in central Virginia in the summer of '02. I don't want to say exactly where. If it was not a mountain lion, I don't know what it was.
I saw a large animal with a long tail on the AT in central Virginia in the summer of '02. I don't want to say exactly where. If it was not a mountain lion, I don't know what it was.
I know it would be unlikely to encounter a lion or panther but would a heavily condensed can of bear spray do the trick if attacked? Older versions of bear spray were proven ineffective against Grizzly's in Alaska but the new stuff is supposed to make them jump and run like hell.
Let's share a joint and shed a tear, in loving memory of the last frontier!
It is my understanding (if I remember correctly the info the previously mentioned Outsite article) that it is not affective. But I doubt there have been many tests as you don't typically see a lion before it attacks you. I do know that you are suppose to fight like hell if attacked (unlike with Grizzlies). As most attacks on humans are by younger males. With them you have a chance to scare them off. If it is a full grown male, you'll be dead before you know what hit you.
I think I found the article here.
Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.
Here is the Michigan quote I remembered...
"And in Michigan, where the state had long denied the eastern cougar's return, DNA testing on scat has confirmed the presence of a breeding population of 50 to 80 lions in the Upper and Lower peninsulas."
Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.
I know that they have been in northern Minnesota for years now. Even as far south as Iowa, the state DNS has confirmed sightings. I recall a farmer even shot one awhile back.Originally Posted by tlbj6142
Reference my post in the "G.A.Weather now" thread:Originally Posted by sleepy
I am a native of North Georgia with many many days and nights in the CNF. About 25 years ago I first heard the blood chilling screams in the night and for the next fifteen or twenty years I heard them many times in the night and occasionally even in the late morning, usually within a five or ten mile radius of where I first heard them. Finally, after much scouting and tracking but not really expecting it, I saw a mother and two cubs working over a recent kill before they saw, heard or smelled me(I had been in the woods about a week but only recently came into their territory). I was able to observe their feeding and the cubs' frolics for about twenty minutes before mom's ears twitched and her head moved almost imperceptibly as her eyes moved directly to where I was hiding. A low gurgling growl and slight hiss and POOF they were gone as though they disappeared.
Over the next five or ten years I have caught a few brief flashes and one really scary stalking incident in which I was the stalkee! Nothing came of it because as soon as I realized that I was being stalked I got the hell out of Dodge, very noisily, I might add!
So, from personal encounter over more than a quarter of a century, I can say that Yes, Virginia there ARE mountain lions in Georgia. Probably always have been, hopefully always will be. And on that note, Hell no, I won't tell you what area I'm speaking of, except that it is within the boundaries of the CNF....maybe.........
Get in the woods, be stealthy in your habits, and who knows, you might get lucky.....or you might get eaten! It's their back yard you're playing in, after all.
Hacksaw
I wonder when hunting them was outlawed in the southern states? I remember reading in a GSMNP history book about two workers that saw a big cat running down a deer in the late 70's.
Since bears seem to have had no problem "coming back" and there are way too many deer in the woods these days, I see no reason why big cats are not in the more remote areas of the Appalchain mountains. And, unlike the west, the population density hasn't pushed right up against their borders.
Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.
see the paper on Field Evidence of Eastern Cougar
sitings by teh Eastern Cougar Foundation
http://www.easterncougar.org/
Historical reports of balck panther sightings exist from the Dismal Swamp area of NE North Carolina. It is my understanding that the NFL's Carolina Panthers are named in part from the supposed Panthers in NE NC rather than anything in the mountains. The new Charlotte Bobcats (NBA), however, are named after the owner's name: Bob.
Originally Posted by Don
Don, thanks for the link! That's a great site for a group that does good work!
For those of you worried about defending your self against a cougar stop thinking about it between 1751 and 2001 there was only one thast right one confirmed cougar attack in the area. For more information on this click here
A-Town
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost. "
-- JRR Tolkien
I understand that mountain lion attacks on people in the East have not occured in years. I think what concerns people is that until recently, that was also true in places like California. Given the fact that lions are increasingly present in the East, many are worried that in 10 or 15 years that will change.
"For example, in California, there were two fatal attacks in 1890 and 1909, and then no further attacks for 77 years, until 1986. From 1986 through 1995, ten verified attacks occurred, an average rate of one per year. That average rate has continued through 1999. Attacks are now numerous enough that there is a support group for attack victims, called California Lion Awareness (CLAW; Outside, 10/95). Since 1970 there has been an average of 14 cougar attacks per year on people in the entire U.S."
http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html
For example, this lion was five blocks south of the Mall of America in Bloomington, MN, a city of 80,000 people, seven miles from downtown Minneapolis. Prior to being killed it had been seen sitting in people's back yards.
06/02/2002
St. Paul Pioneer Press (MN)
(c) Copyright 2002, St Paul Pioneer Press. All Rights Reserved.
"Bloomington police shot and killed a 100-pound mountain lion Thursday evening after walkers on a popular trail came face-to-face with the snarling animal.
Police were called at about 8:30 p.m. to the area near 112th and Queen Avenue near Nine Mile Creek, where officers saw the cougar lying in underbrush just off the trail, said Jim Ryan, a patrol commander for the Bloomington Police.
"They threw some sticks and things at it," Ryan said, trying to scare it off, "but it still doesn't take off."
The cat's standoffish attitude in a populated area prompted the officers to shoot it, Ryan said. They shot from about 30 yards away using a .223-caliber rifle. "
http://www.easterncougarnet.org/minnesota6-2-02.htm
When cougars were hunted, man was on top of the food chain and cougars were afraid, avoiding all contact with us. Then cougar hunting was stopped and in most of the west, their numbers grew, they became less afraid of us and found themselves once more on top of the food chain, pushing us down a notch (or two) on it. So, while once we were their killers, we are now becoming their food.Originally Posted by sleepy
We have a simple choice. We either start hunting them again, on a small, managed scale, or learn to live with a certain amount of our "acceptable" losses to them.
Either way, one is still much more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by one, even in the west. And, their existence does lend a little more excitement to the trip, doesn't it?
i say never say never and so does paul rego (quoted in the article), whom i know personally. (btw, he is an exceptionally talented artist, painting fish swimming in their fave environments. i've also seen him call a great horned owl in from a distance to right across the other side of a pond. cool, huh?) he's also very savvy when it comes to cool mammals and if he says he ain't seen a big cat i believe it's cause it ain't been there, but i'm willing to be proved wrong, honest i am.Originally Posted by Kerosene
another btw ... i lived in washington, ct, not far from victoria cherniske's horse farm, and had the pleasure of chatting with some old-timers and with the woman who now serves as game warden in the area. they all said they never saw truly big cats there but the ridges about the shepaug river were TEEMING with bobcat. the o-t (old-timers) said people used to hike up into the hills and come back with one over each shoulder. they were hunted ALMOST to ... well, what do you call it when something's not there any more but it still exists someplace else? not extinction, but ... well, chased away. they were chased away. the game warden said they're back now, though not in the number of those days years ago when nobody was careless enough to leave kitties or kiddies outside by themselves.
another another btw ... we had lots of cool birds and deer and lost tourists and stuff and ONE day we had a MOOSE through the yard there in washington. the game warden confirmed it (tracks and nibbling pattern WAY up in the trees) and i thought that was cool for washington ct but far as hard as i hiked onto the ridges and as hard as i peered into the rural dark there in the town named after our first president, i never did see a cat larger than the one my roomate let out to roam.
My Grandmother lives near Big Bald on the top of Spivey Mountain. Not so many years ago she told about these big cats screaming around a dead farm animal for several days. She has always said that the one she saw was black.
When I was a little girl I remember being woke up by a women screaming in the middle of the night. We were camping above Spivey Gap at an area called the Flat Top. My mother told me that is was a "painter cat" and not a woman that I had heard...
Just a few weeks ago a section hiker was picking blackberries on Big Bald and found an interesting foot print. He photographed it with his Bic lighter for scale... the print was larger than the lighter. It was a great quality digital pic and eveyone agreed it was a big cat print. He showed it to a couple of forest service people he saw on the trail and they asked for a copy of the pic and detailed directions to the site. They told him they planned to do a plaster mold before it got washed away.
I'm just waiting for Bear Scared to start posting as Cougar Scared.
I don't remember the specifics or have a reference, but I've read articles this year that talk/speculate about cougars moving eastward from the west just as coyotes did the past 40 years.
White tail deer are a favorite prey of cougars and we all know about the booming population of deer...suppose that's one of the causal links?
FB
Interesting theory. There were no fire ants, coyotes, armadillos and very few deer here (south mid Tennessee) when I was a kid. Have all of these now and deer seem to out number people in some areas at times....
1) I saw (twice) a very,very, large cat about 10 years ago, here. I suspect either it was passing through or was an escaped pet??? that was "not offically reported"??? It was black by the way. Was never seen in daytime. Hasn't been seen in about 10 years by anyone that I know of.
2) A brother-in-law, near Tuscaloosa Alabama, has a job that takes him into undeveloped areas in the region and he (as well as coworkers) see the "big" cats every year....occasionally/rarely black one(s). They know what a bobcat is, and sounds like, and they know these are not them.
3) Ferrel (spelling?) cats can be huge compared to most domestic cats but retain the long tail and can seem out of place and be mistaken for cougars/mountain lions by some I am sure, but, what we've seen a bit south & east of the Smokies are surely not these.
I wouldn't worry about a bad encounter, east of the Mississippi, as long as there remains a steady supply of small game.
Hey Tractor, I saw two black panthers in the Nantahala's. You and I are not the only ones. I talked with two ladies in Virginia that saw, what they called a Mountain Lion at Petites Gap. The old timers in the Stecoah's see them frequently. Black Panthers.
Singletrack
I was fortunate enough to see one out here (where the redwoods grow). It wasn't the best sighting in the world, maybe 100-150 feet away, slowly walking away, and not looking at me. I suspect it was aware of me. I had seen its tracks and scat within a mile of there, so I wasn't entirely surprised to see it. At the time, I was waiting at an inconspicuous spot, waiting for a group of deer that were slowly working their way uphill towards me. Unfortunately I got impatient and convinced the deer weren't coming, I got up to leave. That alarmed the deer who were actually quite close, and they took off. While I was angry at myself for scaring the deer away, I saw the cougar walking away too. It would have been so amazing to watch a cougar take down a deer.