Flip Flop Class of 2015 Unite!

[kushtakaa]

Will definitely!

[Team Pancho]

Question for all the Flippers out of HF...was at any point crowding or partying an issue? Really looking to avoid the spring break atmosphere if possible.

[jimmyjam]

Question for all the Flippers out of HF...was at any point crowding or partying an issue? Really looking to avoid the spring break atmosphere if possible.

No. There were about 30 people at the 2nd shelter the first night. But no one slept in the shelter that I saw and there were plenty of camping spots. After that people began to spread out pretty good.

[squeezebox]

There was a group at the hiker campground, not crowded or too loud. Everybody went to sleep at nightfall.

[dangerdave]

Hope all those still on the trail are finding a way to stay cool. It's a hot one!


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[kushtakaa]

"Milanders" Update - In Troutville and still going strong. Well..."strong" in the relative sense. DangerDave, it's been durned schweaty-hot!

One thing for future flipper's to consider...relative peacefulness with only fast Nobos heading to Katahdin, VERY QUIET and actually sometimes lonely feeling with very few Sobo's in the southern half.

All good though...cranking the miles...

JimmyJam...are you south of Damascus already?

[Jeff]

Hostel owners north of HF got the Flip Floppers early in their season while we are still fresh. Personally, I really enjoyed hosting those who started in Harpers Ferry....really a wonderful group of hikers !!

[jimmyjam]

"Milanders" Update - In Troutville and still going strong. Well..."strong" in the relative sense. DangerDave, it's been durned schweaty-hot!

One thing for future flipper's to consider...relative peacefulness with only fast Nobos heading to Katahdin, VERY QUIET and actually sometimes lonely feeling with very few Sobo's in the southern half.

All good though...cranking the miles...

JimmyJam...are you south of Damascus already?

No. Actually I'm home and working. I bruised a bone in my foot and had to get off the trail at Killington back mid-June. Slingshot did make it to Katahdin. I have previously hiked Springer to NOC and Elkwallow to Pearsburg, VA. I may hike some south of Pearsburg this fall and I plan to finish the trail next year. I did that same area summer of 2013 so I know how hot and dry it can be in Virginia in the summer and early fall. Best of luck to you guys.

[Lauriep]

Hey Flippers,

We are looking to set a date for the Flip Flop Kick Off 2016 and would like feedback from you all.

We probably would not go later than first weekend in May (April 30-May 1 2016), unless we received really strong feedback for later. We are considering up to 2 weeks earlier (mid-April).


If you have the time and patience, here's some fine print to read, but not necessary.

It may or may not make a difference in what you would say. I know many of you chose the flip-flop because you wanted to do what was best for the Trail.

There are a number of factors to consider for timing of a thru-hike that starts northbound from Harpers Ferry (a mix of hiker considerations and Trail considerations):

• Starting well ahead of the nobo peak (the peak time for northbounders to reach Harpers Ferry is June 15, and it's quite busy for 3 weeks or so on either side of that
• Ability to continue to stay ahead of the nobo bubble, which travels a lot faster, further up the Trail
• Not too lonely on the northbound leg
• Decent weather to set off, as well as throughout--as much as possible (at least no snow)
• Do not arrive in Vermont before Memorial Day (end of mud season)
• Do not arrive in high elevations of White Mountains before mid-June
• Do not return to Harpers Ferry to hike southbound before about September 1, because there is so little southbound hiker traffic and it's usually still quite hot (unless you've got a partner, are a slow hiker, or reducing time in cold weather and snow at the southern end is important)
• Reach high elevations of Mt. Rogers, Roan Highlands, and Smokies before too much snow arrives

One issue that ATC had considered previously but is even more important going forward is the arrival time in Baxter State Park.

Essentially, it's less stressful for both hikers and Baxter State Park to have more hikers arrive earlier in the season when The Birches are least likely to be full, and arriving in an even flow.

I think everyone on this thread knows that the status of the A.T. in Baxter State Park could be in jeopardy.

(ATC and other groups are working to address the issues, but we've got a long way to go, especially with the expected increase in numbers.)

The Birches, the site designed for long-distance A.T. hikers arriving on foot in Baxter, holds only 12 people. This year there will likely be more than 900 hikers who qualify for the site. Most arrive between August and October 15. If you do the math, and you'll see that it will be increasingly difficult for the park to accommodate a greater number of A.T. thru-hikers, given the way the park is managed. Hikers tend to clump, with 18 arriving one day, 6 the next. In the peak period, the average will be higher than 12, so hikers could have to wait multiple days to stay at The Birches. In August, Katahdin Stream, the site that works best as an alternate for thru-hikers is often full.

If The Birches site is full, here are the options:

• pay for a commercial site outside the park boundary and wait for space in the to become available
• get shuttled to Millinocket once or twice
• Do a 20-mile day including Katahdin (debatably the toughest climb on the entire A.T.)
• Pay for a reservation at Katahdin Stream campground in advance (more expensive, but can be less expensive if shared with others). Spaces are not often available at KSC on weekends.

The details about Baxter aren't important for this discussion. The point is, the earlier flip-floppers can arrive at Baxter, the better. (Northbounders can't realistically arrive any earlier than they do now. As it is, many are unprepared for the winter conditions that await them primarily in North Carolina even for a March start.)

Thanks for any input!

Laurie P.
ATC

[jimmyjam]

Lauriep, I think moving the start date to mid April would be good. I was hot while hiking the first couple of weeks and only had one night that was even close to cold the first few weeks.

[kushtakaa]

Hey JimmyJam...remember reading that pages back but for some reason always get you & Slingshot mixed up. We'll be south of Pearisburg in a week or so, maybe run in to you? Was great seeing you @ Eckville & hiking in the rain the next day...keep on!

[kushtakaa]

Laurie...I think JJ has it right. We started about the 10th in central Shenandoah Park (swift run), so got to HF about a week before this year's FF thing. If I was starting from HF, I think mid-April would be prime.

[Lauriep]

So far I'm hearing that mid-April would be good. Thanks Jimmyjam and Kushtakaa!

Since that represents 100% of the feedback here on this forum at this point, and it definitely would be good for the Trail to have the flip-floppers even further ahead of the nobo traffic, we will start to lean more that way.

While I think there are a lot of benefits for starting earlier, and overall, it's better for the Trail (and any trail-town business that is open would love the early traffic), here are the potential downsides to hikers of an earlier start:

• Almost no nobo traffic through Harpers Ferry that early
• Could be chilly and rainy (though not necessarily)
• Some businesses and state park amenities may not be open

This past May, it was unseasonably hot the day of the kick-off and the next 9 days, with highs in the ranging from high 70s well into the 80s. Heat contributed to dehydration and probably even heat exhaustion for a few.

Here is some historical weather data for the date of 2 weeks earlier and the same weekend as the first FFKO as they would fall in 2016:

April 17
Average Temperatures

Mean 53 °F

Max 65 °F
Min 41 °F

Record Temperatures

High 93 °F (2002)
Low 25 °F (1928)

May 1
Average Temperatures

Mean 57 °F

Max Temperature 69 °F
Min Temperature 45 °F

Record Temperatures

94 °F (1942)
30 °F (1945)

Keep in mind these temperatures are for Harpers Ferry at about 250 feet elevation, and the A.T. through Maryland and PA ranges typically from 1000-2000 feet. Temperatures will be several degrees colder.

I will keep my ears and eyes open for additional feedback, but if I don't hear anything further in favor of the May 1 start, we'll be leaning toward the mid-April kick off. Still need to get more input from the Potomac A.T. Club and Maryland DNR, though.

[jimmyjam]

Hey JimmyJam...remember reading that pages back but for some reason always get you & Slingshot mixed up. We'll be south of Pearisburg in a week or so, maybe run in to you? Was great seeing you @ Eckville & hiking in the rain the next day...keep on!

It will most likely be end of September or Early October before I get back on the trail. Enjoyed seeing you guys at Eckville too- that was one rocky section leading up to it, man my feet were killing me that day. You guys have fun, you've got some great trail in front of you.

[Grampie]

I'm wondering, how many of the 2015 flip-flop class, said they had enough after Katahdin and just went home. I think after hiking half the trail for around three months the temptation would be large.

[Jeff]

Laurie,

I would vote for holding the KO one week earlier than this past years event. Any earlier, some of the faster hikers may hit Vermont before Memorial Day. Hikers may also miss out on the spectacular Upper Goose Pond Cabin (and breakfast) which opens Memorial Day weekend.

[Lauriep]

Thanks for the feedback, Jeff. Definitely things to consider.

One issue for us in Harpers Ferry one week earlier is there is an Earth Day event nearby that could attract and occupy some of the volunteers, visitors, and potential vendors and supporters away from our event. On the other hand, tying the kick off with Earth Day would be cool.

[Sling Shot]

Laurie, I agree with an earlier start off. But, not too early. It would be a shame to miss out on the Upper Goose Pond breakfast. That was a great experience. The weather was not an issue. It was hot the KO weekend and the lowest temp we had was a low of 46 degrees all the way to Katahdin.
To have the KO in conjunction with Earth Day would be cool. Last year the the KO was with the end of the Hike across Maryland which took up a lot of the lodging.


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[Sling Shot]

Laurie,
For Baxter...I believe they should have a ranger up there to see what is really going on up there. I finished on a Saturday (July 25) and there where other thru hikers but were way out numbered by college kids and families up at the summit. It was these folks who were drinking beer and smoking and partying. This was not done by the thru hikers. In fact this took away from the event of climbing Katahdin for myself. They had taken other trails up to the top and were all crowded around the sign and then enjoying themselves with beer and some where having their own safety meeting.
My point is, this should not be blamed on the small percentage of thru hikers that make up the larger number of folks that are in Baxter State Park and summit Mt Katahdin every day.


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[Sling Shot]

Grampie, I am one of those that went back home after doing the northern half of the trail. I enjoyed my time out there all the way to Katahdin. I had planned to take a month off anyway to visit with family and let it cool off and I wanted to see the fall colors. While still hiking, I was torn between feeling I was done and the thought that I still had unfinished business on the southern half.
I am going out next weekend with some guys going on a weekend hike. I was looking at even staying for the week after they left, but I have a medical appointment.
The fact of the matter for myself is I'm just missing too much other things in my life while on the trail. I would like to compete the trail in my lifetime by doing section hikes. I live in south so it will be somewhat easier to complete it over time after finishing the northern half.
On the health side, my knees are still sore climbing stairs and I'm having some shoulder issues. I have ran and even long distances my whole life, yet this hike has effected me more. Of course I am a year or two older now.


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