Needy Little Hikers

[Jack Tarlin]

I have this theory that in recent years, a lot of A.T. hikers have adopted what can only be called a sense of profound entitlement.......by this I mean, they all too often have come to expect certain things from people they meet and encounter, and they expect treatment this BECAUSE they are thru-hiking, period. In short, they've decided they're somehow very special and should be treated as such.

This sense of entitlement can take all sorts of forms:

*They expect discounts at motels, outfitters, and other places
*They expect discounts or free stays at hostels
*They expect discounts or free rides from shuttlers and other folks with cars
*They expect free or discount lodging both on the Trail (campsites, privately
operated huts/facilities/cabins, etc.
*They expect that certain facilities, campsites, shelters, etc. exist primarily
or ONLY for them, and resent these things being used by others
*They expect and anticipate Trail Magic (especially free food) and will loudly
complain in registers and elsewhere if they don't get it, or if it isn't up to
their standards
*They will take great umbrage when they discover that certain goods,
services, and food is either not discounted for them or free
*They will, on occasion, claim that certain rights, privileges, or services
are either free for thru-hikers, or exist ONLY for thru-hikers, and this
claim is frequently false
*They'll be rude or demanding to people in retail stores, businesses,
Post Offices, and elsewhere and expect "special" treatment or services
*They bully and berate (even blackmail) gear manufacturers and Trailside
outfitters into giving themfree replacement gear that they don't merit
*They can be outrageously demanding when guests in private homes as to
their needs, wants, expectations
*They often think they're entitled to "special" rights or privileges that other
folks (i.e. non thru-hikers) are not entitled to
*They are frequently rude or inconsiderate to the needs or desires of non
thru-hikers; this can most frequently be observed in Trail towns, businesses,
motels, restaurants, etc.

And this goes on.

I'm not saying the above behavior is by any means true of ALL thru-hikers, but it seems to me that it's true of many of them. This year alone (in fact this week alone!) I've witnessed some pretty outrageous things, and unfortunately, I'm not sure the behavior I witnessed constituted isolated incidents.

Any thoughts on this?

I'd particularly like to hear from people who shuttle, run or work in Trail-related businesses, do Trail Magic, put up hikers in their homes, etc. But bottom line, is that in recent years I'm starting to see hikers with real attitudes. And maybe this was always there, but I've only recently started to see it.

Your comments are welcome.

[Gray Blazer]

I think there are more (not all) young people in society like that and so naturally it is reflected in the trail people. Fortunately, I haven't run into many like that and the one I did couldn't really hike anyways so it was easy to get away from him.

[Chaco Taco]

I ran into this alot last year as a thru. I know I probably did some of these things as well although i made a conscious effort to not be such an ass. I really feel like the group I was in was very respectful, minus a couple of baddies!

[A-Train]

In a few days you've proclaimed that many more hikers lie about completing the trail and now that they are more greedy and demanding.

Maybe your just getting old?

[Jack Tarlin]

Or maybe I'm finally talking about stuff that was always there but that I didn't feel like acknowledging or mentioning.

But yeah, getting older probably has a bit to do with it, too.

[Gray Blazer]

Going philosophical on us, hunh?

[jersey joe]

It seems unlikely that the hikers this year were much different than 10 years ago in terms of being more demanding. Possible you are just more aware of it now when it does happen.

[Jack Tarlin]

Joe:

It is also entirely likely that years ago I was also probably guilty of some of the behavior I find so troublesome now.

Time changes everything.

Also, one's perspective is probably different when one is actually thru-hiking, which I haven't done for awhile. When you're working in an Outfitter, or helping to run a hostel, or taking in hikers at your home, believe me, the perspective and viewpoint is very different. What appears as "needy behavior" to me now would probably be considered perfectly OK if I was actually out there every day.

The world looks different when you're not wearing boots every day.

[Bankrobber]

I saw a bit of this from a few folks in '03. Seems like the AT community needs to adopt a comprehensive attitude of gratitude. The more grateful you are, the more things come your way.

[Captain Blue]

Well said Jack. I think your observations can be applied to the whole generational group and not just those who hike the AT. No Instant Gratification = No Satisfaction.

[Lone Wolf]

i live in a trail town. i usually have nothing to do with hikers. ain't my kinda people

[A-Train]

Joe:

It is also entirely likely that years ago I was also probably guilty of some of the behavior I find so troublesome now.

Time changes everything.

Also, one's perspective is probably different when one is actually thru-hiking, which I haven't done for awhile. When you're working in an Outfitter, or helping to run a hostel, or taking in hikers at your home, believe me, the perspective and viewpoint is very different. What appears as "needy behavior" to me now would probably be considered perfectly OK if I was actually out there every day.

The world looks different when you're not wearing boots every day.

+1
I was just gonna make this point, and I believe you said it well.

But just the way video games and the electronic age have started to change kids (more sitting inside and getting lazy) the same phenomenom is happening at the start of the trail.

Consider that if a hiker is in no rush they can literally walk/thumb from a cookout at Neels Gap to a party in Franklin to a party in Standing Bear to a weekend event in Hot Springs to a week of partying at Trail Days to Duncannon, with a variety of other unannounced trail magic events scattered in between.

It shouldn't be a shock to anyone that by the time this hiker gets to NY or Massachusetts their mouth is watering and they are a little irritable. What happened to all the attention??

I'm not castigating anyone who likes to provide magic and I like to give it on occasion, but there seems to be a very clear correlation.

[Red Hat]

A perfect example I read in a hiker's journal. He called Phat Chap Fat A** and complained because he (Phat Chap) wouldn't wait to give him (the hiker) a shuttle at his (the hiker) demanded time. The hiker also said that Phat Chap was griping about the behavior of some of the hikers staying and the Hikers Welcome wasn't very welcoming. I totally disagree with this hiker. Hostels like the Hikers Welcome always welcome well behaved hikers!

[jersey joe]

Joe:

It is also entirely likely that years ago I was also probably guilty of some of the behavior I find so troublesome now.

Time changes everything.

Also, one's perspective is probably different when one is actually thru-hiking, which I haven't done for awhile. When you're working in an Outfitter, or helping to run a hostel, or taking in hikers at your home, believe me, the perspective and viewpoint is very different. What appears as "needy behavior" to me now would probably be considered perfectly OK if I was actually out there every day.

The world looks different when you're not wearing boots every day.

Abosolutely, times do change everything. The fact that you are aware that your perception has changed changes the tone of the thread a bit. I think it is productive to point out how some hikers are ungrateful and to acknowlege that the trail community is hurt by this attitude.

[Jester2000]

I haven't noticed that this is more true of young people than old folks. But I will say that at our store in Harpers Ferry we haven't had many problems with thru-hikers being overly demanding or rude.

What I do hear are a lot of complaints about Harpers Ferry itself. The accomodations aren't cheap enough, the food is too expensive, the Post Office is too far away, blah, blah, blah.

I suspect that most of this is based on the expectation that because the ATC is located here this would be more of a "trail town." Unfortunately, though, while there is a National Park here, it's a National Historic Park.

This fact leads to some unexpected things.
The town's economy is more based on tourism having to do with history rather than the outdoors; the businesses in town (and their prices) reflect that. The Park Service is more difficult to work with than you would think in regards to trail related matters. And because most of the lower town (through which the trail passes) is part of the park, things like the PO and grocery stores aren't there and can't be there.

I've heard hikers badmouth Harpers Ferry not because of what it is, but because of what they think it should be (which is a place that caters to them). Perhaps because our store is pretty much the only place in the lower town that's hikercentric, hikers seem to appreciate us.

[Jack Tarlin]

Red Hat:

Your post is right on. I have visited the hostel in Glencliff several times in recent weeks, and they are EXTREMELY liberal in regards to shuttling hikers to the store when the hikers express an interest in going. Pretty much all you have to do is ask.

On the other hand, they'd rather make several trips with a carload of folks as opposed to having to make six trips one at a time (each trip takes about 45 minutes), so I have seen hostel folks say something to the effect of "We'll be going in a few minutes, some folks are cleaning up and showering and won't be ready for a little bit". And on one recent occasion, I witnessed several folks being told that the store shuttle was leaving momentarily but they said they didn't want to go just then as they wanted to finish their movie instead. Then, when the shuttle got back, they IMMEDIATELY asked when the next one was gonna be, and got kinda pissy when they were told that it wouldn't be for awhile.

This is the sort of thing that doesn't endear hostel operators to some of their guests, so when we hear complaints about service at hostels from hikers, it's wise to remember that there's more than one side to a story.

And that being said, anyone that thinks the hostel in Glencliff isn't friendly or welcoming to hikers is nuts. It's one of the best facilities on the Trail.

(And finally, it doesn't happen too often, but if you ever hear a hostel or motel owner griping about a particular guest, there is invariably a good reason!!)

[Jack Tarlin]

Jester's too modest:

Hikers appreciate the Outfitter in Harpers Ferry not merely because it is "hikercentric" but because it is one of the friendliest, best stocked, and best staffed stores on the Trail, and has been for many years.

[TD55]

It ain't just the AT and hikers and it ain't got nothin to do with young people. The attitude of "entitlement" has been a major topic of conversation amoungst business folks and folks who work with the public here in the tourist town where I live. It's different than rudeness and bad manners. Most of us have fun with it because there is a steady influx of new tourist and we could care less if if these pain in the a$$'s ever call us or do business with us again. It's just funny as heck when you get one of these entitled impolite jerks and get to set them straight. I like it when they threaten to call my boss and have me fired. I fire myself all the time.

[Skyline]

I've noticed a significant difference in the attitudes of a certain brand of thru-hiker, and 98% of the section-hikers I encounter both as a hiker and as the partner of an AT service provider. The gulf between these two subsets is getting wider IMHO.

Still, there are plenty of thru-hikers who don't deserve to be berated as they indeed understand no one owes them anything special because they chose to hike the Trail in a single year.

[dreamsoftrails]

Most of the hikers who behave as if they feel entitled to service merely because they are thru-hiking aren't really thinking that way, its mainly a misperception.

A lot of what tarlin lists are actually services offerred up and down the trail, many of which are provided by businesses whose primary clientel and whose primary target market are thru hikers.

a lot of what happens is thru hikers happily pay for these services, but are disappointed when they encounter a town or stretch of the trail that does not have them. They grow to love the services of the beginning part of the trail, they come to mentally rely on them.

they don't neccessarily believe that they are owed these things on the sole merit that they are hiking the AT and thus deserve them, its more of a ' i paid the same price back at place X and got this, this, and this, but here i am being offered far less' and usually they are just grumbling about this, not actually demanding it from the hostel providers or anything else like that.

A lot of it also has to do with the insecurity of being far from home, and thus 'needy' of certain things, a lot also has to do with stress from financial concerns. simply put, they, like any other traveler in the world, like to think they are getting a good return for their dollar, and they are aware that folks far from home are typically preyed upon. i will admit this is rarely the case on trail, but many of the hostels on trail openly admit they are in it for the money. that being said, many offer generous services and hospitality for a small amount of money and their minds are in different places. this confuses many of the hikers, who are young, inexperienced with the various types of people and businesses that can be encountered.

in conclusion, "thru hiker entitlement" is a myth, or at least a severe simplification of a variety of issues that are rather understandable. nobody's perfect, and that is a two way street.