Inchworms Journal during 26 days lost...newest report

[gypsy97]

I think someone else posted it back a few days ago, "Death from Exposure" is generally used when they don't have a clue what caused the death, or they don't intend to say what caused the death. I'm satisfied there will be no more info forthcoming from officials on this death.

As far as the hiking community being so interested and adamant about determining what happened, it isn't any disrespect to Gerry's family. Thousands of hikers use the Appalachian Trail every year, including this area in Maine. It is important to know where the pitfalls are, and what areas to be especially careful not to mistake a side trail, etc. Why do the "my-way-or-the-highway" folks get so surprised and upset about the genuine concerns expressed in this subject. And if you believe you get a complete and true answer from every ME's report, then you are living in a dream world! For whatever reasons they deem necessary, they don't hesitate to hold back info from the public and even from the families of the deceased. And if you don't like reading the posts anymore, just skip this topic.

[Driver8]

To all the doubters...

Look, the Medical Examiner and Wardens seem very confident of their conclusion. Gerry's family seems to agree with the findings. Has it occurred to you that perhaps they have evidence (a journal, phone texts, phone video?) to support this conclusion that they have shared with the family but not with the public out of respect for the deceased?

I am as curious as the next person, but perhaps it is time to put the speculation aside and let the family grieve. In time they may want to share more information, or they may not. Till then, Rest in Peace Geraldine Largay.

I agree. Lack of food/water seems unlikely, given her big pack, but perhaps she ended up where she passed and languished for several days, incapacitated and unable to move, running out of food. Being lost could mean she had a stroke or other disorienting affliction.

As to her path, cell phones these days have GPS tracking capability even absent cell network, no? I'm not an expert on the technology of it, but I know my phone tracks my position in the Whites out of network, no signal. As such, her phone may provide a track of her movements. She may also have had a mapping/tracking app which clearly showed where she'd walked. Had that been true, query how she got lost, but again, that could point to some acute health event which impacted her faculties.

[Pedaling Fool]

It does seem like this case is over, not that I accept the findings, but it just doesn't look like there will be anymore on this...As far as I'm concerned it will simply remain a mystery, no conspiracies, just another unsolved case.

However, I'll leave you all with this interesting story on the issues with Maine's Medical Examiner's Office, but I have no opinion, since all I got is this story and my personal speculations, which I don't see a need to share.

http://www.centralmaine.com/2014/06/...ine_s_system_/

[atraildreamer]

I agree. Lack of food/water seems unlikely, given her big pack, but perhaps she ended up where she passed and languished for several days, incapacitated and unable to move, running out of food. Being lost could mean she had a stroke or other disorienting affliction.

As to her path, cell phones these days have GPS tracking capability even absent cell network, no? I'm not an expert on the technology of it, but I know my phone tracks my position in the Whites out of network, no signal. As such, her phone may provide a track of her movements. She may also have had a mapping/tracking app which clearly showed where she'd walked. Had that been true, query how she got lost, but again, that could point to some acute health event which impacted her faculties.

According to New England Cable News (NECN) this morning, the cause of death was exposure (hypothermia) aggravated by a lack of food and water. How she got to that situation is still unknown. This was just a quick news report.

Check here for more detailed information:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/30396655...se-of-at-hiker

[Slo-go'en]

If once off the trail she got injured and was no longer able to walk, she could have run out of food and water before too long. She probably didn't have too much of either with her since the hike was suppose to end that evening. It's possible such an injury wouldn't show up in the skeletal remains. If I were to be in that situation, with no food or water left and unable to walk and no chance of rescue, I'd take the hypothermia way out...

Since apparently they found her phone and were able to extract information from it, I wonder if she left a parting note for her family? I suppose we will never know. Might be worth having a voice recorder app on your phone should the need ever arise.

[Madthrush]

Several people have posted she was found in her sleeping bag, in her tent. I don't recall any official report to that effect. In fact, every report says her skeletal remains were found with her belongings, which says to me she was in fact NOT found in her tent. I think this is an important point because if she were found in her tent it would be much more likely she'd succumbed to starvation or dehydration (because as she weakened she'd likely want to rest and be at peace). Being found outside her tent to me means it's more likely the proximate cause of death was injury related or incapacitation like a stroke or heart attack, or perhaps even exhaustion, which would be more likely to happen if she were in extreme stress from being lost.

[MuddyWaters]

Several people have posted she was found in her sleeping bag, in her tent. I don't recall any official report to that effect. In fact, every report says her skeletal remains were found with her belongings, which says to me she was in fact NOT found in her tent. I think this is an important point because if she were found in her tent it would be much more likely she'd succumbed to starvation or dehydration (because as she weakened she'd likely want to rest and be at peace). Being found outside her tent to me means it's more likely the proximate cause of death was injury related or incapacitation like a stroke or heart attack, or perhaps even exhaustion, which would be more likely to happen if she were in extreme stress from being lost.

http://www.brentwoodhomepage.com/mis...4#.ViL4AyuNAnI

[Starfly]

I don't mind this weird game of Clue that you're all playing. But in the last ten or more post there has been so much misinformation posted I don't know where to start. Why are you not at least trying to correct this and stick to the facts? Wouldn't that help the cause of the next disappearance? There are only TWO scenarios here so let me help you. The key is she really wasn't that far from the AT and it was effectively swarming with SAR by Wednesday the 24th as well as a variety of southbound and northbound hikers doing their thing. In addition to a bunch of other ways to signal for help, srhe had a whistle, and a very very good one. If used it would have been heard on the AT, railroad road for a long stretch on either. She was either in her tent on the 23rd or 24th definitely mentally incapacitated and possibly physically a little over a par 5 from the AT. You can live for a while if your mind is shot but your heart still beats. Or she died, somewhat suddenly and dramatically, same spot/days as the previous, and that was that. How she got there in either scenario no one will know (obviously) but I'll watch you try to psychoanalyze it.

[Acacia]

2 AT trails.jpg 2 AT trails b.jpg

Google maps is showing two separate AT trails passed Orbeton Stream. Both seem to be incorrect when compared to the 2009 ATC Maine Map 6. Was that section of trail relocated after 2011, when I bought the maps?

[Don H]

I don't think the Google maps are very accurate as far as showing the AT.

I do think that this is the place that Gerry got off the trail though. If for no other reason, the 2011 AT Guide says to follow the road east (compass south) which could be confusing to some. The current guide has been changed to indicate you should follow the road east a short distance, if I recall it's about 50'.

[TwoSpirits]

http://www.brentwoodhomepage.com/mis...4#.ViL4AyuNAnI

Just a thought to keep in mind: news journalists don't always get it right.

I listened to the press conference (several points at several times in fact, due to buffering problems), and I recall hearing the question asked if she was found with any gear -- and I recall the Lt. explaining that yes, she was found *with* her equipment...and that would all be examined according to standard practice and protocols...but I never heard any mention that she was found *in* her tent. I believe that particular detail would have generated a lot of follow-up questions and explanation, and there was none of that.

So I think it's entirely possible that the writer of this article may have mis-written that seemingly small fact. It happens. But that has changed the "facts" of the story for everyone who get their 'facts' solely from a news article.

I may in fact be the one who is wrong here, but I honestly don't recall any mention of her being IN her tent (much less her sleeping bag) and just have been wondering how that conclusion has been drawn.

[Bluebearee]

Just a thought to keep in mind: news journalists don't always get it right.

I listened to the press conference (several points at several times in fact, due to buffering problems), and I recall hearing the question asked if she was found with any gear -- and I recall the Lt. explaining that yes, she was found *with* her equipment...and that would all be examined according to standard practice and protocols...but I never heard any mention that she was found *in* her tent. I believe that particular detail would have generated a lot of follow-up questions and explanation, and there was none of that.

So I think it's entirely possible that the writer of this article may have mis-written that seemingly small fact. It happens. But that has changed the "facts" of the story for everyone who get their 'facts' solely from a news article.

I may in fact be the one who is wrong here, but I honestly don't recall any mention of her being IN her tent (much less her sleeping bag) and just have been wondering how that conclusion has been drawn.

You are correct. I also listened to the news conference and a reporter asked if it was true she was found in her tent. I addressed this in the "found gerry" thread on here at the time. Kevin Adam dodged the answer completely, you paraphrased him accurately. Basically her gear was out in the weather through two winters and they would be examining it. That's the last we've heard about any gear.

For some reason, and I have no idea where this information came from, the Friday it was announced she had been found, my husband was at the annual fall meeting for BSP. Part way through their day, Jensen announced Gerry Largay's remains were found and she was in her sleeping bag. I have not seen a single source to mention this and I don't know where Jensen got his information that day, but I have tried to dispel it as we don't know it's the case at all.

[Rain Man]

Copyright 2015 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

And yet ... you did?

[vamelungeon]

Remember also that an autopsy on skeletal remains involves more than mere visual observation of bones. I'm not a coroner but I have attended autopsies. They are not the simple affairs you see on TV shows.


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[MuddyWaters]

Not uncommon for information details to be withheld in an ongoing investigation.
Much information leaks thru unnofficial channels typically. Usually you have the news, before the press conference.
Lack of detail at a press conference isnt a reason to dispell anything necessarilly.
In some cases, even denials at a press conference arent reason to dispell anything.
It would be nice to know how those details came to be however.

[4eyedbuzzard]

And yet ... you did?

Yeah, technically it probably wouldn't be considered fair use. But realistically that horse left the barn a long time ago, especially as there's no commercial use. Expanding a bit on your comment, what a (very) few of us might also find interesting is the concept of implied consent in quoting others on internet forums. This is further compounded by the assignment of copyright to the forum when you post under the terms of service. Do I have the right to quote your post? How about your reply? I would assume that I have the implied consent of the forum who could claim ownership of the posts, as they have conveniently supplied a quote function in the software. But it hasn't been tested in court.

/thread drift

[TD55]

Perhaps this is a foolish question, or one from someone not well informed on the issue, but it seems obvious that an area that should have been searched "with a fine-toothed comb" so to speak, was ignored, or at least searched very sloppily. Since the area, from what I understand, was inside the border of the Navy property, did the Maine authorities leave that area of the search in the hands of the Navy? I seem to recall reading somewhere that that was the case, that the Navy conducted the search in the areas under their jurisdiction.

[Pedaling Fool]

Perhaps this is a foolish question, or one from someone not well informed on the issue, but it seems obvious that an area that should have been searched "with a fine-toothed comb" so to speak, was ignored, or at least searched very sloppily. Since the area, from what I understand, was inside the border of the Navy property, did the Maine authorities leave that area of the search in the hands of the Navy? I seem to recall reading somewhere that that was the case, that the Navy conducted the search in the areas under their jurisdiction.

This may explain a lot from an earlier report soon after her remains were found https://www.centralmaine.com/2015/10...y-wardens-say/

In the article two things (or three things -- not really clear on that point) were primarily blamed, rough terrain, lack of trained personnel and a lot of out of shape trained personnel.

P.S. I'm not clear on the issue of physically fit trained personnel, i.e. if all their trained personnel were physically fit would that give them a sufficient number of trained personnel or would they still need more trained personnel...


Excerpt from the above Article:

"The area where Largay’s remains were found — about 3,000 yards from the Appalachian Trail — is wooded and has terrain that is difficult to traverse, for both hikers and searchers.

“Why didn’t they locate her? We don’t know at this time,” Adam said of the dog crews that came close to the remains. “It’s a team; it’s one of our resources.

“We typically like to run grid searches behind the K-9s, but because of the terrain, because we didn’t have enough trained, physically fit people, we couldn’t do that in a lot of cases."

[Traveler]

This may explain a lot from an earlier report soon after her remains were found https://www.centralmaine.com/2015/10...y-wardens-say/

In the article two things (or three things -- not really clear on that point) were primarily blamed, rough terrain, lack of trained personnel and a lot of out of shape trained personnel.

P.S. I'm not clear on the issue of physically fit trained personnel, i.e. if all their trained personnel were physically fit would that give them a sufficient number of trained personnel or would they still need more trained personnel...

The article says there were not enough physically fit volunteers. The Maine Warden Service has a lot of ground to cover and their staff is not large, so in-house staff has to be augmented by volunteers from local communities along with passers by (hikers in the area). A lot of these volunteers are volunteer police, firefighters, EMT personnel, etc. Not all of them are up to the physical standards and skill sets necessary for that particular area even though in other terrain they would have been more than adequate.

I spent several years in SAR work, most of it in very steep and dangerous terrain and can tell you that physical fitness meant a lot in those particular areas, but skill sets were equally, if not more important. I'm sure you volunteer for SAR operations where you are and can probably agree with that as well. Untrained volunteers in terrain of that type will often get into trouble and need help, which is why the MWS did not use a lot of them. It was an unfortunate circumstance the search had to be conducted where the level of fitness and skill sets was near if not at the highest level possible.

[Slo-go'en]

One of the articles says a search team passed within 100 yards of her location. This might as well have been a mile since you can't see far into the woods. By the time that team got in that area she must have already passed on.

One thing I'm not clear on is how much time passed between the day she became lost and when the search started?