Yep,sorry I missed it.Maybe they need a Go Fund Me page for wildlife relocation...............Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu
Sleeping with food in areas where bears are not a known problem and are generally fearful of humans seems a pretty safe bet.
Sleeping with food in areas populated by human-habituated bears is asking for trouble.
This is why I think sleeping with food along most of the AT is ok, but should NOT be done in high bear density areas like GSMNP.
i often think about something i was told many times in grizzly country- there has never been an instance of a grizzly bear attacking a group of 6 or more people. ever.
generally black bears are less aggressive. with that in mind, i sort of concluded that a shelter full of 20 people is safe no matter how much food is in it with them.
Wasn't there a story in A Walk in the Woods where Bryson thought he heard a bear at the bear cables one night? He got a flashlight to investigate, and there were FOUR bears! Imagine waking up one morning in a shelter with 20 people - feeling all safe and cozy, and there's two or three bears circling the cables and the fire ring waiting for breakfast. Yikes!
if what they teach you in grizzly country is true they would run from the 20 people.
a walk in the woods is what could possibly most generously be described as "quasi fiction."
i guess part of what i am suggesting is that 20 people surrounding it is a bigger preventative measure than hanging the food from cables
When you start talking about shelters, you don't want to sleep with your food because of the mice.
Sorry couldn't resist!
It's all good in the woods.
well in the smokies you have to unless your on a thru hiker permit next to a full shelter.
but besides that, i routinely sleep in shelters with my food and mice have never touched it. its generally under my head. mice dont go near it. i once woke up in just after sunrise a non AT shelter eye to eye with a cute little guy who might have been thinking it over, but thats the only even close call.
In the Smokies, you're required to hang your food on the bear cables provided at each campsite/shelter.
The boy scouts have a wilderness reservation in New Mexico, they have had a few cases of black bear attacks at group campsites. https://scoutingmagazine.org/2013/04...ear-encounter/
Here are a couple of interesting articles about rebounding black bear populations.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-conservation/
http://appvoices.org/2015/10/14/bear...unters-follow/
According to the second, black bears in Appalachia have more than doubled in the last 20 years.
I was up there a couple weeks ago during the week and it seemed like the construction/bear boxes were getting used - for trash as much for overnight storage. Who is humping the trash out?
Also, anybody know if that electrical fence enclosure up near Rhododendron Gap is effective, or even getting used? I was a little sad to see both the boxes and the fence.
Seems in line with what I've heard...
I seem to recall that 20 to 25 years ago, the bear population was estimated at about 400 in GSMNP.
Today, the GSMNP web page set the current estimate at 1,500.
sure. not suggesting that one should disobey the rules or anything like that.
but i still say that the food being amongst 20 human beings would do a better job of keeping it away from a bear.
if there are no questions of rules to be followed, if i'm alone at a shelter with bear cables i use them. if i'm there with 5 or more people i don't.
you counter this idea with "but mice...."
i have never had a mouse harm any of my belongings at a shelter. not once. food included.
Mice have definitely harmed gear at shelters in GSMNP... mainly packs hanging from the rafters.
(For decades, I've heard the recommendation of leaving all pack zippers open so the mice can freely roam your pack to see there's no food rather than having the mice chew thru the packs to see what is inside).
And mice definitely have the run of the shelter, including running across sleeping bags with campers still in the bag.
But I must admit that I've never kept my food in the shelter, so I can't speak from practical experience on keeping mice away from food while in a shelter. But then for years I was "lucky" and didn't get mouse damage from food bags hanging on bear cables (but that changed the last GSMNP camping trip I took).
And while a bear likely will not wonder into a shelter full of rowdy people, I've seen a human habituate bear in GSMNP that ignored a shelter full of people yelling at it while it wondered around the campsite checking things out. And while I can't remember a specific incident, it seems like I've heard stories of bears walking into shelter full of sleeping campers.
[P.S. - I'm limiting my discussion about shelters in GSMNP. Things are a little different in GSMNP than along most of the rest of the AT. GSMNP has a higher density of campers year round compared to the rest of the AT, and as such, things that might be suitable for food protection and bear safety along most of the AT do not necessarily translate to what precautions need to be taking inside of GSMNP.]
Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 08-23-2018 at 18:35.
High Point Shelter in NJ and Desolation Shelter in the whites both had bears that would run into the shelter, grab packs and haul them in the woods to strip. The bears eventually figure out that all the yelling and rock throwing is a bluff. New Jersey restarted bear hunting and the problems reduced. The bear in the whites started working the parking lot at a high visibility visitor center and was removed. There is currently a bear warning in the same area of a male bear that is actively grabbing packs that are set down. Just north of there has been ongoing issues with bears charging folks camped at 13 falls. There is a designated cooking area and the bears are actively charging at it when folks are cooking.
never hang my pack from rafters anywhere. pack stays on the ground next to me or under me. having a small pack is obviously more or less necessary to make this work if things are crowded.
Hunting does two things: It re-inforces a bear's natural fear of humans and it manages bear numbers. Yes, people need to secure their food. Yes, humans are causing this problem by not doing so. I have zero problem with implementing a canister requirement if that's what it takes. But letting the bears simply continue their behavior isn't solving anything. I've said it before, rubber slugs appear to work well to inhibit bears from getting into trash. Why rangers are not simply going to these areas and trying this method to re-instill fear in these bears is beyond me. If you're not going to open controlled hunting what exactly is being done to instill the rightful fear into bears?
I have come across 2 bears in separate incidents on roads (Teas Road and VA 16) in recent years. Each popped out of dense green vegetation (one a very tall, thick corn field). What impressed me immediately was their beauty, their full, clean black fur and their lack of unease when they saw where they were. Using a bit of triangulation, I would say that they are in the area between the bridge over the South Fork of the Holston at Teas Road to Partnership, quietly living healthy lives. These are not hungry, troubled bears--at least at this time.
You never know just what you can do until you realize you absolutely have to do it.
--Salaun
I am heading up to Thomas Knob this weekend. Not planning on getting any sleep. If things go according to plan, there will be at least one less bear (possibly more) when I am done. If the rangers won't take care of the problem then I will.
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