ATC Says Trail Magic is Bad for the Trail

[Rabit]

I am not trying to force anything on anyone but I am not going to go away. I have been a life member of ATC for over 40 years and have been volunteering on ATC trail crews for over 25 years. I feel I have some investment in the AT and should and will do what I can to preserve and protect the AT. I find it ridiculous for someone to tell me to go hike another trail. When the folks posting videos on Youtube following the bubble glorifying trail parties and "safety meetings" start posting videos of building side hill with the Konnarock trail crew or helping the local trail maintainer clean out fire pits and haul out trash perhaps I will be open to a different kind of trail experience.

And I find it ridiculous that you feel it's ok to tell others to go hike somewhere else if they don't hike they way you want them to but then get indignant when the same is suggested to you! I'm a United States Army Combat Veteran, I don't know it you are but if so you should be ashamed. Freedom is what this country is supposed to be based on!
Annnnnd this is exactly why I NEVER get involved in these debates, they will never be resolved because most ppl don't want to try to compromise and just get along and be darned happy! Geeez, be happy you're still healthy enough to hike and just go do it. If I feel the need for an argument I've got a teenager...... Although I've taught him to be more reasonable and accepting of ppl than many adults I see.

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[Rabit]

Noooo! They should stay where they are at. Stick to the AT and complain endlessly about how it is. Enough drama on the AT. Don't need the same folks complaining about things on other trails and how other trails don't measure up to the AT. Thankfully other trails aren't the AT.

Well as long at they're not complaining to ME out on the trail! I'll be out there to enjoy my hike TM or no TM I really don't care as long as long as the hikers I meet are happy hikers.

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[imscotty]

[QUOTE=Rabit;2162293Annnnnd this is exactly why I NEVER get involved in these debates, they will never be resolved because most ppl don't want to try to compromise and just get along and be darned happy!
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Rabit,

Perhaps we can compromise and just get along and be happy by agreeing to follow the guidance from the organization whose mission it is to "preserve and manage the Appalachian Trail – ensuring that its vast natural beauty and priceless cultural heritage can be shared and enjoyed today, tomorrow, and for centuries to come. "

The ATC is encoring people to move away from the large organized on-trail hiker-feeds and back towards the original meaning of the words 'trail magic' (small spontaneous acts of kindness). Hopefully that is something we can all get behind.

Soilman,

Thank you for volunteering to help maintain and preserve the AT. Now that's real trail magic.

[Offshore]

If you feed the hikers they will soon become conditioned and expect to BE fed. That may become aggressive if not fed when they expect. The only choice then is to trap and transfer.

Don't forget the ear tag and DNA sample.

[Rabit]

Rabit,

Perhaps we can compromise and just get along and be happy by agreeing to follow the guidance from the organization whose mission it is to "preserve and manage the Appalachian Trail – ensuring that its vast natural beauty and priceless cultural heritage can be shared and enjoyed today, tomorrow, and for centuries to come. "

The ATC is encoring people to move away from the large organized on-trail hiker-feeds and back towards the original meaning of the words 'trail magic' (small spontaneous acts of kindness). Hopefully that is something we can all get behind.

Soilman,

Thank you for volunteering to help maintain and preserve the AT. Now that's real trail magic.

It should absolutely be preserved, if you knew me you'd know I wholeheartedly believe in preserving our planet. My West Virginia friends don't call me their California Tree Hugger for no reason. BUT I also firmly believe that everyone has a right to their own opinions and they're own way of life. I have been planning for an A. T. Thru Hike for years and not just because I want to enjoy nature and the hike but ALSO because the A. T. is what it is, a fun, social experience and TM is part of that..... Which is why I chose it.... It would really stink if when I'm finally able to in 2019 that the A. T. has been turned into every other long distance trail. It's the only one like it. I have no interest in thru hiking the PCT, JMT, CDT, any other "T" trail for my first and possibly only thru hike because they're NOT as social as the A. T. I think that every one of the trail maintainers are awesome for what they do, I do not condone trash, graffiti, habituating bears, spreading disease in our water sources, etc.. I just don't believe that TM/Hiker feeds are the cause of all that but the acts /deeds of careless and lazy /immature hikers that don't care AND let's not forget locals that come to some areas to party on the weekends, ie : Dismal Falls and leave they're trash and beer cans Which is PART of why trail maintainers are needed and are amazing!
I'm just going to agree to disagree and bow out of this argument, er, discussion

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[rickb]

The ATC is encoring people to move away from the large organized on-trail hiker-feeds and back towards the original meaning of the words 'trail magic' (small spontaneous acts of kindness). Hopefully that is something we can all

Seems like they are ignoring the elephant in the room.

Unattended coolers have long been discouraged-- nothing new or controversial there.

But feeds "especially especially in the backcountry"?

With the special focus on those in the backcountry, the ATC gets to have it both ways. They make a point (kind of sort of) but make sure not to offend all the folks providing "magic" at or near intersecting roads

Ok, so it's not an elephant in the room -- it's a pickup at a trailhead or grill at a nearby parking lot.

That said, I will readily admit I may be missing something.

Can anyone clue me in as to the percent (and number) of these "Feeds" that a typical thru hiker will encounter in the backcountry -- as opposed to at or ver near a road crossing?

[George]

Seems like they are ignoring the elephant in the room.

Unattended coolers have long been discouraged-- nothing new or controversial there.

But feeds "especially especially in the backcountry"?

With the special focus on those in the backcountry, the ATC gets to have it both ways. They make a point (kind of sort of) but make sure not to offend all the folks providing "magic" at or near intersecting roads

Ok, so it's not an elephant in the room -- it's a pickup at a trailhead or grill at a nearby parking lot.

That said, I will readily admit I may be missing something.

Can anyone clue me in as to the percent (and number) of these "Feeds" that a typical thru hiker will encounter in the backcountry -- as opposed to at or ver near a road crossing?

more than 99% of feeds, give aways, etc will be at towns or road crossings

[George]

more than 99% of feeds, give aways, etc will be at towns or road crossings

now people leaving their garbage at shelters and calling it trail magic to make themselves feel better is…..

[Offshore]

To relay my own bias, I'm a section hiker have found there are a small but sizable number of these self titled "trail angels" are more accurately thru hiker groupies.

I think you've hit it perfectly. I find the "groupies" to both creepy and a little sad - sort of a combination of stalkerish people living life vicariously. It also contributes to that thru hiker entitlement that is so apparent in a minority (thankfully) of thrus. Take the money and give it to a food bank if you really want to make a difference. A thru hike is basically a vacation and if you can't afford it or are not prepared, its your own fault.

That said, I do a lot of day and weekend hiking on the AT in NJ and i do provide trail magic when I can - but it's been things like rides to town/hostels in pouring rain or extreme heat, treating heat exhaustion, and just today, helping a section hiker replan his hike itinerary with my Guthook app because he didn't know that the Vernon, NJ church hostel and the Murray property were closed and camping is limited in NJ for the most part to shelters. Ironically, I actually had a thru offer to buy me dinner a couple of years ago. I had taken him to get medical attention and then to a pharmacy to get a prescription filled before dropping him off back at the trail. While waiting for the prescription, we ate dinner in town and he offered to pay for mine (this was now about 2.5 hours of trail magic going on). I thanked him and said just pay it forward. I'm by no means special or alone in doing this stuff - there are a lot of people out there helping out other hikers truly in need. You just won't see canopies and shirts emblazoned with "Trail Angel".

[JumpMaster Blaster]

I'm in agreement with the ATC. Hiker feeds and unattended "trail magic" coolers a lot of negative effects on the trail. They cause trash, clog up trailheads, and create a sense of entitlement and expectation of freebees among newer hikers.

To relay my own bias, I'm a section hiker have found there are a small but sizable number of these self titled "trail angels" are more accurately thru hiker groupies. On several occasions I've been deliberately stopped by people who offered me some sort of unsolicited freebie, only to have them renege the offer when they found out I was a section hiker. This is something that I find incredibly insulting and has soured my opinion of hiker feeds in general. What they're actually doing is interrupting my day just to let me know that my hike isn't worthy of their help
and while I'm normally a very polite person in these cases I'm perfectly happy to let them know where they can shove that free hotdog.

I have never had this happen to me, but if it ever does I would politely explain to them that their refusing to feed a random hiker (me vs long distance hikers) is in fact discrimination and goes against everything the ATC stands for. I would also inform them that I am a member of the ATC and what the ATC's stance is on hiker feeds. Then I would go on and on about attempting a thru isn't a forced event, that it's a vacation, and maybe they should volunteer to feed the trail maintainers or the homeless instead.

My very first year hiking the AT I inquired about providing trail magic. It didn't take very many trips to realize what trail magic really is. Someone at a trailhead offering me a water, or to take my trash, or give me a ride into town is pure magic.

[soilman]

And I find it ridiculous that you feel it's ok to tell others to go hike somewhere else if they don't hike they way you want them to but then get indignant when the same is suggested to you! I'm a United States Army Combat Veteran, I don't know it you are but if so you should be ashamed. Freedom is what this country is supposed to be based on!
Annnnnd this is exactly why I NEVER get involved in these debates, they will never be resolved because most ppl don't want to try to compromise and just get along and be darned happy! Geeez, be happy you're still healthy enough to hike and just go do it. If I feel the need for an argument I've got a teenager...... Although I've taught him to be more reasonable and accepting of ppl than many adults I see.

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Let me make my position clear. I have nothing against hiker feeds. What concerns me is the shifting of the trail culture from people wanting to get outside and enjoy nature to people looking for a party atmosphere. My belief is that hiker feeds help to instill an entitlement attitude in some hikers that can result in bad behavior. Where in this country can you get free stuff for just walking? How many services have been lost over the past couple of years as a result of this behavior? I have suggested over the years if people truly want to do trail magic why not do some trail maintenance or join a trail club or ATC where their time and/or money would be truly appreciated. At the end of the day a free burger and Mt Dew is not going to impact your trail experience as much as a sustainable tread or a path clear of blowdowns. I appreciate your service to the country and I hope you have a good hike. The AT is truly a social trail in that you make incredible bonds with total strangers in short period of time. It doesn't have to be another South Padre Island or Panama City Beach.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Why? Some parts are tougher than others, depending on our own capabilities and preferences. A couple of days on the rocks in Pennsylvania may dampen the spirits, but the rocks don't last forever. Some trail angel providing cold drinks and cold packs to wrap around our knees or ankles in those rocks would be very salutary. There are usually disheartening parts of any significant endeavor, but completing such an undertaking is generally rewarding. Advising people to stop a hike when some part of that hike is unpleasant is defeatist.

There is no requirement for people to produce trail magic. There should be no expectation of receiving trail magic. It's magic, not an obligation for angels or a right for hikers.

And there shouldn't be a prerequisite to obtaining such magic. "Oh, I'm sorry your knee is swollen and your water bladder burst. These ice packs and sodas are only for thru hikers. Perhaps you can get some water in a few days when you get back to your car."

[egilbe]

Someone left a box of food for trail magic at West Carry Pond lean-to last summer. When we arrived the box was all trash and was torn open or left open and the trash blowing around the site. That was the most trashed site we saw from MA to ME. We picked up everything and tried to secure the trash box.

Mary-Ellen is doing it this summer, too. There is a note kindly asking hikers to carry away their trash and dont gobble up all the goodies. Leave some for your brother. The group we were with did exactly that. Surprised there isnt a bear hanging out at that shelter, yet.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

The AT thru hike is not something unique in the course of human civilization but practiced by many cultures throughout history and into pre-history in different forms and under different names. What it is not is a hike, nor a vacation. It is to borrow a term a pilgrimage. It is life transformational and a rite of passage. It in it's context is not done alone, though it can be if one can persevere, but to live off of kindness of heaven and fellow beings. As such trail magic is ingrained into human culture because it is for the good of society and humanity. As such trail magic is an integral part of the AT thru, it is a needed component and that alone has had many thru hikers faith in humanity restored (or so I've heard that phrase uttered many times on trail by AT thru hikers.

Why section hikers/day hikers don't count? Well if they are on a pilgrimage (again borrowing a word), it does. But for most they are on a vacation, or a weekend warrior (a vacation, just another form). They are just a day away from returning to society and whatever food and the like they desire. They are not giving up much and the addition of trail magic does not have the same meaning, as it doesn't matter much for a short term outing.

But for a thru it means a lot, an incredibly lot. And that is the life changing element that so many people need in their lives to become the person that can understand what it means to give and humbly receive. To help them become the trail angels of society today.

Will it stay with the AT, really I don't know, as regulation comes about, good will, and kind hearts, departs for more fertile ground and the AT is experiencing a trend towards the call for regulation.

Is the system of good will and trail magic perfect, no but what is. If the problems overcome the benefits, and people take advantage of the system, and the appreciation is not there, the good will and loving hearts will depart and the trail will be a far different place then it is.

You want to go on a life changing event? Go overseas on a mission, join the military and defend your country and freedom. Your thru hike IS exactly a vacation. You're not a POW. You're not on some holy mission. Your elitist attitude is everything that paints a lot of hikers in a bad light. I (like many other vets here) can tell y9ou a thing or two about "selfless service". You have none of that. Unless you are out hiking to raise money for cancer/kids/ etc, you are undertaking nothing but a SELFISH journey. A vacation.

Let me also remind you of the fact that the original intent of the AT was to get people to become one with nature and to leave the worry and stress of the cities behind for periods of time, NOT to be hiked straight through, and definitely not to be used as a personal "look at me, look at what I conquered/FKT" challenge.

I love your attempt to marginalize the day/section hikers, but it really falls flat. I really wonder about a couple things: 1) how many former thru hikers are card carrying ATC members, or are active in trail clubs, 2) how many ATC members are "just" day or section hikers, and 3) how many business owners that provide services to ALL hikers have never thru hiked.

Do you even realize the number of thru hikers (and those that attempt) pale in comparison to the amount of people that use the trail that aren't?

You really act as if the trail was specifically built and designed for thru hikers. It wasn't.
You really act as if a thru hiker has gone on some life or death mission. They haven't. They went on vacation. Spend a couple combat tours overseas and then get back to me with all that "for the greater good of mankind" BS.

Many section hikers don't have the time or opportunity to put life on hold for 4-6 months and go on vacation.

[Lone Wolf]

totally agree with Blaster

[rickb]

Now that was harsh, JMB!

Thru hiking isn't as hard and isn't heroic like some of the things you listed -- I kind of think you should have put having a baby on that list for even better effect --but it counts as something special, I think.

Definitely more than a vacation.

But regardless of your or my opinion on that, it is a simple fact than many good people have gone out of the way to treat thru hikes rather well. Because they were thru hiking.

On my hike, those people included a small town that opened up their community center to us, a church that build a special cabin for us, a family that was known for 1000 miles to take great joy in offering every thru hiker that passed by an icecream cone (me more), a monastery that welcomed thru hikers with a meal and bed, and so many more.

If you want to demonize those people for putting all their efforts elsewhere, I would be shocked. If you want to say that they could have spent their energy better elsewhere, I might agree. But I suspect that you most probably would have just said "thank you" if you were there.

And perhaps even conclude that all those good people were thinking more like Starchild than you might want to admit.

[Venchka]

Can we at least all agree that Hiker Feeds do not belong in Wilderness Areas ?

Yes. We could. But then the earth would fly out of it's orbit.
Wayne


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[egilbe]

I would much rather see less hiker feeds if it meant more trail maintenance and maintainers. A thru-hike is a vacation. Its purely selfish and thats OK. Earl Schaeffer did it for personal reasons, but he was recovering from WW2. He sacrificed before he went on his healing journey. Not everyone can say that. For the majority of hikers, its not about the healing, its about what they need to suufer to complete the hike. Think about that. Earl Schaefer suffered, then took a hike to heal. Todays hikers, the hike is the suffering. It doesnt make them special. By comparison, its pathetic.

[Traffic Jam]

I would much rather see less hiker feeds if it meant more trail maintenance and maintainers. A thru-hike is a vacation. Its purely selfish and thats OK. Earl Schaeffer did it for personal reasons, but he was recovering from WW2. He sacrificed before he went on his healing journey. Not everyone can say that. For the majority of hikers, its not about the healing, its about what they need to suufer to complete the hike. Think about that. Earl Schaefer suffered, then took a hike to heal. Todays hikers, the hike is the suffering. It doesnt make them special. By comparison, its pathetic.

Yep, and day hikers and section hikers may have access to all the food they can eat when they're not hiking, but they are also fulfilling responsibilities and obligations at home, many of which are difficult. Their time spent in the woods is just as important to their spiritual well-being and sense of fulfillment as it is to a thru hiker. For many of us, it's the only thing that gets us through real life.

(geez, I don't even know what thread I'm in anymore. Does anyone carry a compass?)

[Sarcasm the elf]

Yep, and day hikers and section hikers may have access to all the food they can eat when they're not hiking, but they are also fulfilling responsibilities and obligations at home, many of which are difficult. Their time spent in the woods is just as important to their spiritual well-being and sense of fulfillment as it is to a thru hiker. For many of us, it's the only thing that gets us through real life.

(geez, I don't even know what thread I'm in anymore. Does anyone carry a compass?)

On every trip since I was eleven.

(Though this is a replacement, I lost the first
one between highschool and college.)

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