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Thread: Well I'm out :(

  1. #161
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    14 MPD may not sound like much, but unless you are in shape both mentally and physically, have hiked before enough to have your equipment dialed in and as light as you can make it, you will be doing good if you can get a 8-10 MPD average to begin with. Most people it takes two to three weeks to get their trail legs and properly break in their boots, which the should have done before leaving. Granted it's just walking, but it is just walking with another 20-40 pounds strapped to your back. The OP has already made up his mind about not going this year, but he is going to get out and do a few sections this summer. He will learn from his mistakes and who knows, some seasoned hiker may take him under his/her wing and show him a few tricks he can use to do a thru hike in 2018. This was a decision he made with his wife and she is the only person he has to make happy through all of this. I believe they said that she may even join him next year. Now we have all heard from people about being gone from their significant other and/or kids for 6 months is hard, think about being around them for 24 hours a day for six months. That will really test a relationship. So LL you do what you have to and best of luck.
    Blackheart

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    Don't beat yourself up, llama.

    I haven't taken the time yet to read ALL of this thread, but enough to get the gist...get out there soon section hiking and get that gear dialed in.

    Best of luck to you!




  3. #163
    Registered User dudeijuststarted's Avatar
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    hiking requires some level of ingenuity and responsiveness to the unexpected. thru hiking requires an insane amount of it.

    if you really want to do this, go to GA and get started. everyone and their mother in the AT community is down there for the explicit purpose of helping new people out, this includes shaking down packs for excess junk. so you can, ya know, fit food and stuff.

    if you really don't want to do it, that's okay, but no room in the pack for food is not a legitimate excuse. in fact, its probably the worst homie.

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeBill View Post
    14 MPD may not sound like much, but unless you are in shape both mentally and physically, have hiked before enough to have your equipment dialed in and as light as you can make it, you will be doing good if you can get a 8-10 MPD average to begin with. Most people it takes two to three weeks to get their trail legs and properly break in their boots, which the should have done before leaving. Granted it's just walking, but it is just walking with another 20-40 pounds strapped to your back. The OP has already made up his mind about not going this year, but he is going to get out and do a few sections this summer. He will learn from his mistakes and who knows, some seasoned hiker may take him under his/her wing and show him a few tricks he can use to do a thru hike in 2018. This was a decision he made with his wife and she is the only person he has to make happy through all of this. I believe they said that she may even join him next year. Now we have all heard from people about being gone from their significant other and/or kids for 6 months is hard, think about being around them for 24 hours a day for six months. That will really test a relationship. So LL you do what you have to and best of luck.
    I averaged just under 14 mpd. That's 100 mile weeks - a good speed. There were plenty of 20s and 1 30, but the overall average was <14. https://smokebeard.wordpress.com/201...-hike-mileage/ Starting early in the year with short days, and sticking to, or being forced to stick to, the shelter system, puts strange constraints on your days, and the mountains of NH are no joke.

  5. #165
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    I averaged just under 14 mpd. That's 100 mile weeks - a good speed. There were plenty of 20s and 1 30, but the overall average was <14. https://smokebeard.wordpress.com/201...-hike-mileage/ Starting early in the year with short days, and sticking to, or being forced to stick to, the shelter system, puts strange constraints on your days, and the mountains of NH are no joke.
    About half the time, I may stay at a shelter. Sometimes its a goal, and other times, its inconvenient and Id rather keep hiking and stay in the woods.

  6. #166
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllDownhillFromHere View Post
    I averaged just under 14 mpd. That's 100 mile weeks - a good speed. There were plenty of 20s and 1 30, but the overall average was <14. https://smokebeard.wordpress.com/201...-hike-mileage/ Starting early in the year with short days, and sticking to, or being forced to stick to, the shelter system, puts strange constraints on your days, and the mountains of NH are no joke.
    I agree that is a great feat. But it is the exception and not the norm.
    Blackheart

  7. #167
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    Real Thru Hike. May 1 start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyoming View Post
    Hmm I would actually do the opposite and start later vice earlier. I started on May 1st and finished on Sept 17 with plenty of zeros
    By starting later you avoid the inevitable down days you will experience due to inclement weather in the Smokies which just bunch you up with those starting later than you. A 1 March start is not functionally 30 days ahead of 30 March as there will be a number of down days in that month due to weather issues. By May 1 you should never have that happen.

    By starting that late that big percentage who are going to drop out in the early miles are already long gone and you will never meet them. Since there are not many starting as late as you your starting 'bulge' will be small. This effect will last the entire hike for you.

    The best way to avoid crowds is to not stay at shelters and instead camp at the in between (stealth) sites. This also works better in May than early in the year when many of the in between sites are covered in snow or just mud.

    A later start also guarantees you will have much nicer weather also as you will eliminate a high chance of snow storms and lots of icy cold rain.
    With 13+ months to get ready, 5 months to finish should not be a problem.
    Go for it!
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  8. #168
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    I quit. My brain is pudding.
    map man's range of start dates and probability of finishing.
    Quote Originally Posted by map man View Post
    A few months ago Laurie Potteiger of the ATC posted a bar graph showing how many NOBOs completing thru-hikes in the 2010-2014 seasons started from Springer on each date. She did this to illustrate the times of the year that NOBOs might want to stay away from to avoid overcrowding. From this bar graph I was able, by blowing it up to fill my screen and doing a lot of squinting, to figure out the numbers for each date -- 2549 thru-hikers in total. Here is a link to that bar graph:

    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/atta...9&d=1421990260

    In addition, mountain squid (Tim) here at WB has been maintaining a database for years showing the intended start dates for WB thru-hiker hopefuls who have chosen to register their intentions here at WB. I looked at the years 2010-2014 in these databases, and subtracted any SOBOs, sections hikers or hikers doing FLIPS so that I could tabulate just NOBO thru-hiker start dates (there ended up being 2275 hikers in all), so I could directly compare them to the ATC calculation of start dates for those same years. Here is a link to the page for mountain squid's databases:

    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/cont...ze-thru-hikers

    Comparing these two databases should give an idea of what start dates have a higher or lower percentage of completers. So here is a list showing the percentage of hikers who have started in a certain date range compared to the total in all date ranges . I used the same date range groupings that mountain squid uses. The first number is intended start date range percentages for WBers and the second number (in parentheses) is start date percentages for completers:

    1.2% (.4%) January or earlier
    10.1% (7.6%) February
    15.1% (11.5%) March 1-7
    14.3% (13.6%) March 8-14
    17.5% (16.8%) March 15-21
    13.4% (16.4%) March 22-31
    12.8% (15.8%) April 1-7
    10.8% (12.6%) April 8-30
    4.8% (5.3%) May or June

    By dividing the second number by the first number we get a "factor" showing relative likelihood of completing a thru-hike, with 1.00 being the number representing the overall average:

    .33 -- January or earlier
    .75 -- February
    .76 -- March 1-7
    .95 -- March 8-14
    .96 -- March 15-21
    1.23 -- March 22-31
    1.23 -- April 1-7
    1.17 -- April 8-30
    1.10 -- May or June

    Or to put it another way, if we assume that around 25% of NOBO thru-hiker hopefuls end up completing the trail, which is a ball park figure for what the ATC estimates is the general completion rate for NOBOs, then completion percentages for the start date ranges can be estimated:

    8% -- January or earlier
    19% -- February
    19% -- March 1-7
    24% -- March 8-14
    24% -- March 15-21
    31% -- March 22-31
    31% -- April 1-7
    29% -- April 8-30
    28% -- May or June

    Am I saying that it is "easier" to complete a thru-hike with a start date after March 21 than it is before then? No, I am not. For instance, if hikers with more experience, or hikers who know themselves to be fitter than average (groups with a better chance of completing, perhaps) also choose in greater numbers to start later then that would have an effect on completion rates by start dates. But for those who start at really busy times in early and mid-March in the belief that the earlier they start the better their completion chances, these numbers should give them pause. And perhaps that might encourage more people to start a little later and disperse some of the big numbers of people starting at traditionally popular times the first three weeks of March.

    Now for the disclaimers: Yes, there is potential for sample bias any time you have a partial population stand in for an entire population. There isn't a whole lot of potentail for that in the ATC's numbers based on 2000 miler applications because if you compare their numbers with the physical count of NOBO thru-hikers that Baxter State Park does, it sure looks like the ATC numbers represent at least 75 to 80 percent of thru-hikers.

    In comparison, our WB databases for 2010 to 2014 of hikers intending to thru-hike probably only represent around 20%-25% of all NOBO thru-hike starters. That is still a pretty darn large sample. And even if you make the case that WB thru-hike registrants skew older and perhaps more male than the overall population of thru-hikers, that doesn't automatically mean that older hikers or male hikers make significantly different choices about when to start. The only exception that seems likely to me is that perhaps college-age hikers are more likely to start in May, after the school year ends, and that could potentially mean that May starters could be under-represented in the WB databases, though I doubt if the distortion is dramatic.

    Finally, thank you Lorrie Potteiger and mountain squid for all the time and effort you put into tabulating or maintaining these charts or databases. They shouldn't be held responsible for the way I chose to use the numbers produced by their labor.
    Start whenever you like.
    As Bill Murray said, "It just doesn't matter."
    Wayne


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  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    About half the time, I may stay at a shelter. Sometimes its a goal, and other times, its inconvenient and Id rather keep hiking and stay in the woods.
    Agreed. It was really the Smokies, the Shenandoah, and the Whites where you had to strategically plan, or bootleg (which I will also admit to doing).

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    That Ramen brand you're boxing can be bought just about anywhere.
    Ahhhh, but not this flavor my good sir
    NOBO March 2018

    Man can only find oneself while alone on the Appalachian Trail. There his mind if free to explore his thoughts, the Universe and eventually find his true self. -Ernest Hemingway

  11. #171
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llittle_llama View Post
    Ahhhh, but not this flavor my good sir
    You might also investigate and audition Korean Ramen. Google The Ramen Rater for the Top 10 list. Find a well stocked Asian market. Think outside the box.
    Wayne


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  12. #172
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    I'm but a lowly n00b section hiker but I found this thread and all the advice in it super helpful. I'm sorry that you're not doing a thru this year, little_llama, but better that it's on your own terms. Also, loved the Ramen unboxing. Watched it while drinking coffee and almost spat coffee all over my laptop. Thanks for the early morning laughs and best of luck in all of your endeavors. As long as you hyoh, you're good.

  13. #173
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    You're a former Soldier as well so I consider you a bro. My first time on the AT (when I was still active duty) I took a 75L pack with almost 40 pounds of crap in it. For an overnight hike with my dog. You live and you learn. A couple years later I was down to 24 going throuh the Smokies, and I'm a Z-Packs Duplex away from a very comfortable 16lbs baseweight.

    Use what you've learned in the military. Go on a few hikes, some overnighters. Asess what you used, what you didn't use, and what you wish you would have brought. Do this 3-4 times. Make it like an actual training mission and AAR when you get back. Take a small notepad & pen with you. I did that on 5-6 trips and whittled my kit down to where it is now.

    Of course, you can trade stuff in or buy lighter gear, but at least try what you have. Learn from your mistakes. Get out on the trail. I can't attempt a thru right now so I'm going to section it to death, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

  14. #174
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpMaster Blaster View Post
    Learn from your mistakes. Get out on the trail. I can't attempt a thru right now so I'm going to section it to death, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    Amen brother! Preach it! Hallelujah!

    My training for my AT hike is Maine and NH. I know I dont want to lug another 40+ pound pack up to Mt Madison again.

  15. #175

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    I started Springer at 44lbs, and did not change any gear for the trip, except sending my fleece home, and for 2 weeks, my tent (huge mistake). Weight is not the problem. People hike with 40+ packs all the time. What did people do before the ultralight craze began? Useless weight is definitely useless (like carrying more than 2L of water pretty much anywhere on the AT), but letting the weight of your toothbrush be a thing is counterproductive. Look at Cheryl Strayed. Not that she finished, but I think we can agree she wasn't really trying to thru.

    "if you can pick up a pack, you can carry it all day if you have the right attitude" --Guy Waterman

  16. #176
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    I've carried heavy packs in the past... something like 70 lbs for multi-day winter trips in the Adirondacks and Whites, and even 35-40 lbs for summer in the Catskills and southern Appalachians.

    I remember all too well that technique for picking up a heavy pack—the half squat, heave it up and set it on my thigh, insert arm thru one shoulder strap, another good heave bending forward while tossing the monster onto my back, insert other arm, etc—and doing mountaineering-style rest steps on every freaking hill, taking 10-minute breaks every hour, and dropping the pack with a thud of relief after a long day covering 10 miles. I wouldn't still be backpacking if that were the case today.

    I truly have no idea why people choose to carry 44 lbs when 22 lbs is totally within reach these days.

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    de gustibus non disputandum est

  18. #178
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    44 lbs 44 lbs est, 22 lbs 22lbs est

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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpMaster Blaster View Post
    You're a former Soldier as well so I consider you a bro. My first time on the AT (when I was still active duty) I took a 75L pack with almost 40 pounds of crap in it. For an overnight hike with my dog. You live and you learn. A couple years later I was down to 24 going throuh the Smokies, and I'm a Z-Packs Duplex away from a very comfortable 16lbs baseweight.

    Use what you've learned in the military. Go on a few hikes, some overnighters. Asess what you used, what you didn't use, and what you wish you would have brought. Do this 3-4 times. Make it like an actual training mission and AAR when you get back. Take a small notepad & pen with you. I did that on 5-6 trips and whittled my kit down to where it is now.

    Of course, you can trade stuff in or buy lighter gear, but at least try what you have. Learn from your mistakes. Get out on the trail. I can't attempt a thru right now so I'm going to section it to death, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    Probably the clearest, most methodical, and most helpful post on the entire thread.

    I too am a Vet, and the struggle to give up what was once considered "essentials" (not including a rifle. Still getting used to not having one laying next to me) is an ongoing battle. I'm slowly getting there, replacing heavier equipment with lighter gear, but being strong enough to leave things behind is a nightmare. I've found I have to basically split between a bare bones survival kit that I could throw in a day pack, and just add a few comfort items like a sleeping bag and tent.

    Thanks for tapping my Forward Assist.


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  20. #180
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    I had the same problem when I attempted a thru-hike in 1999. When I cinched the top down on an overstuffed load one of the buckles broke - that's how much there was in it! Bounced the problem off of some veterans and learned that I was carrying waaay too many clothes, and you should have seen the size of my foodbag.

    After adjustments everything fit into a different pack, with room to spare, that I used while the replacement pack was being shipped ahead to Mountain Crossings. After that everything was fine and I didn't even have to send anything home.

    By the way, the foodbag was still huge, but not quite so overstuffed, and that was where some folks came up with my trail name
    Long-distance aspirations with short-distance feet.... :jump

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