It may not be. I'm just askin'.Originally Posted by Sly
Me too!
The books can list hostels and whatnot but they cannot direct you to the correct gap in the trees when you're walking by.
It's one thing to hit Winding Stair Gap and know that heading east will take you to Franklin. It's entirely something else to pick out the correct unmarked "Tote Road" and be able to distinguish it from the dozen other unmarked logging roads in the area.
I completely agree that excessive advertising is a blight on the landscape. But I also think that it's possible to provide a useful amount of information available to the confused hiker/tourist without reaching the blight level.
Marta
If not NOW, then WHEN?
ME>GA 2006
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277
Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover
Of course. But it takes two to work out a reasonable solution. If the business insists on ignoring MATC efforts to find a middle ground, the NPS has to step in. Which it did after years of WHL arrogance. The situation had been discussed for years at MATC board meetings. We all recognized both the NPS rules, and the importance of hikers being informed.
However, MATC fundamentally disagreed with the implied argument of many White Blazers that: "This is a great place, so it should be allowed to do anything it wants."
Weary
Weary, I respect your position. I just do not agree with it. The whole "slippery slope" argument, that one little sign reproduces itself into hundreds, does not work on the AT as almost the entire trail itself is a slippery slope. The journals in each shelter the entire length contain hundreds of little suggestions for places to stay in both directions. Using your slippery slope rule, what do we do burn them? In order to achieve your level of anticommercializm you would have to ban humans, from the "wilderness????"
Well, we start by keeping a dozen blaze orange signs off National Park Service land and trees in one of the wildest sections of the entire trail. I don't think I've used a slippery slope argument. I always sensed MATC was willing to cooperate with the business. The problem was the cooperation was all by one side. WHL essentially ignored us and did what they wanted. Business cards in the shelter for the business listing the lake, where it was located. And an MATC sign at the interesecting road, pointing how to get to the lake was one solution I would have voted for. The discussion by the MATC board of directors discussed this and other plausible ways of meeting our obligation to the NPS, and the needs of hikers and the business.
Yes, business cards in shelters are also technically banned, but it is an unenforced rule -- and an unenforceable rule -- as someone has pointed out. But a batch of signs tacked to trees is not a solution MATC could allow and still fulfill its promise to maintain and protect the trail, and keep it as wild as possible.
Weary
Reminds me of the South of the Border signs. You're 3 miles from Whitehouse Landing, You're 2.5 miles from WHL- Good Eats! You're 2.2 miles from WhiteHouse landing- Huge Burgers! You just past the side trail to WHL.
You never sausage a place, you're always a weiner at WHL,,, LOL
The signs for South of the Border are not as prevelant as they once were...
DoughNut
Some quick thoughts:
*The Tripoli site is decidedly NOT commercial; the sign merely serves to tell
people about a nearby place to pitch a tent.
*Wolf is correct when he says that enforcement of the anti-signage rules is
spotty and inconsistent. Shaw's did indeed have a Trailside sign for many
years, and nobody, including the local Trail club, ever seemed to be overly
concerned about this.
*That being said, I tend to agree with Mowgli and Weary on this. Signs and
advertisements directly on the Trail or at shelters should certainly be
discouraged, as should the creation (or blazing) of side Trails that lead to
commercial sites or businesses.
*Signage or ads at trailheads or parking lots is a different matter; as long as
the signage is discreet, or better yet, on a kiosk or bulletin board, I can't
see why anyone would find this objectionable, especially if the ad or
notice pertained to a new business or service that wasn't listed in any
current Trail guide or handbook. This is the sort of ad or sign that would, in
fact, potentially benefit hikers, and if done appropriately, and in the right
location, I can't see why anyone would object to this. But signage directly
ON the Trai itself is generally not a good idea, and when a business or
entity seems entirely indifferent or scornful of the opinions and con-
cerns of the local Trail club, well in this case, I think it's perfectly OK to
object to this.
*Lastly, when someone has concerns about a Trailside business or facility,
and if these concerns are that significant, whether it involves rules and
regulations, or instead involves something like behavior towards customers,
in my experience, the single best way for someone to speak their mind is to
simply spend one's time and money at another place. In other words, it's
really simple: If you don't care for the way a place is doing business, then
you treat it the exact same way you'd treat a place back home: Don't
go there.
Steve the Ferryman had a sign and a blazed trail cut down from the AT to his place in 2003. Is this still there and has anyone from MATC ever done anything to end this?
Anything's within walking distance if you've got the time.
GA-ME 03, LT 04/06, PCT 07'
i was just going to mention that
Greasy creek hostel in Tn. has a sign right on the trail too. there are lots of signs between ga. and me. right on the trail pointing towards businesses. here in damascus as come in NOBO and leave NOBO there are bright yellow wooden signs with jesus on the cross nailed to trees right on the trail
I don't have any idea. I don't recall it ever being discussed at MATC board meetings.
Weary
I imagine some signs and side trails can be approved by the MATC, the ATC or the NPS. Not sure whether this is the case in this instance.
isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?
When I went through last year there were half a dozen blue blazed side trails in the 100 miles that didn't show up on the map and looked like side trails to fishing spots. I don't know which of the several commercial camp operations cut and blazed the trails but I did see a nice map that Namahkanta Lake Camps prints up that shows most of them...
The signage and blazing fight as I understand it was because Bill blazed the Mahar Tote Road with blue blazes so people could find the side trail they blaze (not cut they aren't allowed to cut trail only mark it). The tote road is a gravel road that dead ends at a campsite on the lake. I was told no one ever told them what WAS allowed for signage, the maintainers just pulled down the various solutions they put up, including a couple of professionally painted signs they put up under the tote road sign, a small rock with "WHL" and a arrow painted on it that they placed in the middle of the tote road and smaller signs they attached to the tote road sign itself. They currently staple a business card to the tote road sign and all of their blazes and signs are out of sight of the AT 1/4 mile down the tote road.
They do try to find exactly where the line for "allowed" is and get as close to it as possible. They are trying to attract customers, I would too. They don't stay long past the hiking season anymore, their customers are almost exclusively hikers they stopped catering to hunters because as Linda put it, "dead deer don't mix well with hikers." So, the hiker crowd is 95% of their business and the trail is the only way for hikers to get to them.
I found them to be hospitable, their prices within reason for the location and I had a great time while I was there.
Now that's a funny analogy!
Still hard to miss though. One every couple of miles it seems. Sometimes more.
Skids
Insanity: Asking about inseams over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
Once when I went by that trail junction one of the kids at the camp had put up a cardboard lemonade sign with a price on it. I hope that piece of crass commercialism was quickly squashed!Lone Wolf-'isn't there a sign and marked trail to Harrison's Camps too?"
That kid should be shut down. I also have seen obnoxious signs from boyscouts giving trail magic. Will this commercialism never end?Once when I went by that trail junction one of the kids at the camp had put up a cardboard lemonade sign with a price on it. I hope that piece of crass commercialism was quickly squashed!
Isn't his place closed now?
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