It is Time to End the War on Saturated Fats

[rocketsocks]

Please enlighten this feeble northerner how do you use salt on watermellon. I am fond of watermelon but never used salt on it. :-)

Well give a try, just a little sprinkle all around...I like it anyway.

Try it on Cantaloupe too. While your at it, crack some fresh black pepper over vanilla ice cream, I'm serious now, it's good.

[Another Kevin]

My one-line summary of my approach to eating: "Stay reasonably active and eat what I durned well please."

It works well enough for me. My doc doesn't complain about my BP or lipid panel.

[Pedaling Fool]

I thought I made it clear that the food industry and gov't entities are complicit. You got the wrong idea that I suggested anywhere gov't is "the answer."...

Sorry, I stand corrected. it's just that so many that make the same arguments as you opt for govt fixes, such as restricting size of sodas and such....If they get that, then what's next? Banning those large sugar bags on grocery shelves?...

So, if the fix is not in the govt, then it has to be education. What else is there? (Although I would say Science and Technology) The food industry won't change without govt intervention (or change in consumer behavior).

However, I'm not under some grand illusion that there will be some great educational system set up... This is one of those things that people's mistakes will provide much of the education. And the good information (as opposed to all the fad-ish information) will fill in the void. Good information being things like what Odd Man Out has been posting.


I'm sorry, but I don't see out of date farming practices, such as organic farming to survive too much longer into the future. GMO's and the modern food industry are the future. I know they are crude today, but all technology starts out this way. Science and technology got us in this predicament and it's the only thing that can provide a fix. Farmer's markets and the such are neat, but they are a thing of the past.

[Pedaling Fool]

If it sounds so crazy to you why all the fuss you give it. These are extreme situations, extreme dietary approaches, and individuals involved in extreme activities using ingredients that might be regionally more available. Everyone does not need to go to these extremes overall. How about just considering aspects of these approaches and apply them individually to your own diet rather than looking at the entirety of these ideas as wrong or right?

Heck, I always have nutritious rather inexpensive chia seed(SABA) and an assortment of fresh fruit in the house. They have some excellent nutritional properties. It doesn't mean I'm going to subsist on pinole/chia drinks or only fruit.

Because it seems to be working for him...Why?

Talk about how bad sugar is for you in such large quantities, this guy is eating tons and tons of sugar, yet he seems to be doing fine. That goes against all that I know, it's a curiosity.

I'm quick to discount information like this when I read it, because so many people lie and fabricate things. However, after listening to this guy I'm not so quick to discount it, because I tend to believe him and he backs it up with great performances in ultrarunning. That's curious to me.

You say, "...I always have nutritious rather inexpensive chia seed(SABA) and an assortment of fresh fruit in the house....". This isn't about eating a larger than normal amount of fruits in one's diet. This guy lives off fruits, period. That's all he eats. Doesn't that cause you to question W T F is going on here. Not just some goof ball sounding off in some article.


I, like you, also have no plans to only subsist on pinole/chia drinks or only fruit. But, if one is really curious about nutrition and how the body works, you gotta ask yourself what's going on here...

[Dogwood]

Because it seems to be working for him...Why?

Talk about how bad sugar is for you in such large quantities, this guy is eating tons and tons of sugar, yet he seems to be doing fine. That goes against all that I know, it's a curiosity.

I'm quick to discount information like this when I read it, because so many people lie and fabricate things. However, after listening to this guy I'm not so quick to discount it, because I tend to believe him and he backs it up with great performances in ultrarunning. That's curious to me.

You say, "...I always have nutritious rather inexpensive chia seed(SABA) and an assortment of fresh fruit in the house....". This isn't about eating a larger than normal amount of fruits in one's diet. This guy lives off fruits, period. That's all he eats. Doesn't that cause you to question W T F is going on here. Not just some goof ball sounding off in some article.


I, like you, also have no plans to only subsist on pinole/chia drinks or only fruit. But, if one is really curious about nutrition and how the body works, you gotta ask yourself what's going on here...

I am a little interested PF, especially in regards to the details on how all the fructose is being assimilated, but not enough that I'm currently willing to thoroughly research it. I'm fine without having to know all things and certainly not all things related to every possible nutritional approach or extreme diet, which is what it seems but I may be acting in unfair harsh judgement concerning that which I limitedly understand..being a Fruitarian. Again, extreme lifestyles, and somewhat extreme people engaged in rather extreme activities.

[Dogwood]

"..such as restricting size of sodas and such....If they get that, then what's next? Banning those large sugar bags on grocery shelves?..."


If you're referring to Mayor Bloomberg's desire to limit sodas to 16 oz I get his intention...address one of the links or pathways to obesity...excessive sugar intake. No surprise his ban was shot down as he was up against some extremely powerful well politically connected groups and food industry sectors that would have had their profits restrained such as the restaurant industry, American Beverage Association, and other biz groups(Coca Cola, PepsiCo, Dr Pepper Snapple).




BTW, do you know how utterly enormous the profits are from soda? For some businesses, such as restaurants, and convenience stores, fountain sodas account for HUGE MARK-UPS. It's normal for a $1.60 retail 16 oz fountain soda to cost about 5 1/2 -7 1/2 cts total for the soda syrup and carbonated water/seltzer AND THE 16 oz cup, plastic lid, and straw to cost about 9 cts! The container the soda comes in cost more than the soda product in it!



No doubt, LOTS of push back against such a ban as Mayor Bloomberg desired.



So, you disagree with the FDA's decision to phase out partially hydrogenated oils in three yrs? Before you answer do you know the hazards of hydrogenated oils(trans fats) and where they originate and how they are developed?




Do you disagree with gov't stepping in any manner to regulate substances added into the public food supply?

[Dogwood]

"I'm sorry, but I don't see out of date farming practices, such as organic farming to survive too much longer into the future. GMO's and the modern food industry are the future. I know they are crude today, but all technology starts out this way. Science and technology got us in this predicament and it's the only thing that can provide a fix. Farmer's markets and the such are neat, but they are a thing of the past."



It's easy to gather these impressions if all you do is limit your biased information on the subject to what you see in popular science/technology mags such as Discovery, Science, Scientific American, etc. These mags and similar journals have strong biased ties to BIG chemistry, BIG Pharma, BIG Ag, High Tech, etc. They treat science and technology as the answer to all problems.


Don't get me wrong though. I read all three on occasion. BUT, they are biased pro science....


Here is what you usually don't read in those mags: non-GMOs, traditional farming techniques, and organic farming have as much worthy science behind them as GMOs and modern factory farming! Check out the Rodale Gardening Institute; they are a very scientific but organic approach to gardening and food production. I doubt any of those mags mention the Rodale Institute as having worthy SCIENTIFIC BUT ORGANIC SUSTAINABLE food production approaches



I you are going to make comments like Organic Farming is out dated and Farmers Markets are a thing of the past you should reconsider as you are incorrect. According to USDA data and those who follow Agricultural Trends Organic foods have held steady interest in the global and U.S. food markets. Organic farm acreage has been increasing. Just between 2008 to 2009 organic acreage increased 26% alone in the U.S. And, interest in Organic foods is even making conventional grocery chains like WalMart, Krogers, Publix etc increase the variety of organic products they carry. After the explosive double digit annual growth in new Farmer's Markets in the years following the instituting of the USDA Organic label in 2002 new Farmer's Markets have leveled off to about 4 % increases annually in the past three or so yrs BUT Framer's Markets are certainly not something of the past. Nor, is Organic Farming! Sorry, NOT, organic farming is not going away despite what you may be reading in some of those pro BIG chemistry, pro Monsanto, pro Syngenta, pro DuPont, articles.

[Smoky Spoon]

Very interesting thread, especially for a retired chef.

[Odd Man Out]

I went to a conference on sustainable agriculture back in around 1990. I found it interesting that the modern sustainable agriculture movement should not be viewed as old fashioned farming. Instead they embrace technology and innivation to make farming sustainable. The USDA has a large research presence in this area. The USDA Library (which coincidentally I could see from my backyard when growing up) maintains a resource page. https://afsic.nal.usda.gov/sustainability-agriculture-0

[Pedaling Fool]

....
BTW, do you know how utterly enormous the profits are from soda? For some businesses, such as restaurants, and convenience stores, fountain sodas account for HUGE MARK-UPS. It's normal for a $1.60 retail 16 oz fountain soda to cost about 5 1/2 -7 1/2 cts total for the soda syrup and carbonated water/seltzer AND THE 16 oz cup, plastic lid, and straw to cost about 9 cts! The container the soda comes in cost more than the soda product in it!



No doubt, LOTS of push back against such a ban as Mayor Bloomberg desired.



So, you disagree with the FDA's decision to phase out partially hydrogenated oils in three yrs? Before you answer do you know the hazards of hydrogenated oils(trans fats) and where they originate and how they are developed?




Do you disagree with gov't stepping in any manner to regulate substances added into the public food supply?

Yes, I know of the profits from fountain sodas and they get my money also; I usually buy a 44oz soad at least once per week for 69 cents at a local convenience store. But that's over now, since the end of summer

On Trans Fat, I have no problems with the regulation to remove trans fat from foods, as indicated by me not really mentioning it here; although, there is research (and I've posted it once) counter to the common notion of it being as bad as many believe, but needs more research. But I have no problem in the govt requiring its removal.

As for disagreeing with the govt stepping in...Again, no I don't have a problem in general, but this is something that must be addressed on a case-by-case basis, because it's such a complicated issue, so you have to speak only on a specific case. So much is done in the name of Safety, which in many cases is really just a way to push an agenda.

BTW, I don't believe Bloomberg had some nefarious agenda, in that case it was simply misguided, simply because it put us on too much of a slippery slope. What's next? Banning those large sugar bags in grocery store shelves.

I agree totally with Bloomberg that some people are taking in way too much sugar, but if you want to fix this by regulations, then you really can't stop at just limiting the size of a soda. Totally different case of phasing out trans fat and limiting soda size.

[Pedaling Fool]

Here is what you usually don't read in those mags: non-GMOs, traditional farming techniques, and organic farming have as much worthy science behind them as GMOs and modern factory farming! Check out the Rodale Gardening Institute; they are a very scientific but organic approach to gardening and food production. I doubt any of those mags mention the Rodale Institute as having worthy SCIENTIFIC BUT ORGANIC SUSTAINABLE food production approaches



I you are going to make comments like Organic Farming is out dated and Farmers Markets are a thing of the past you should reconsider as you are incorrect. According to USDA data and those who follow Agricultural Trends Organic foods have held steady interest in the global and U.S. food markets. Organic farm acreage has been increasing. Just between 2008 to 2009 organic acreage increased 26% alone in the U.S. And, interest in Organic foods is even making conventional grocery chains like WalMart, Krogers, Publix etc increase the variety of organic products they carry. After the explosive double digit annual growth in new Farmer's Markets in the years following the instituting of the USDA Organic label in 2002 new Farmer's Markets have leveled off to about 4 % increases annually in the past three or so yrs BUT Framer's Markets are certainly not something of the past. Nor, is Organic Farming! Sorry, NOT, organic farming is not going away despite what you may be reading in some of those pro BIG chemistry, pro Monsanto, pro Syngenta, pro DuPont, articles.

I know all about Rodale, that's the organization that says we can fix the increased CO2 levels by simply changing our farming practices and not reducing co2 emissions. Personally...well I'm not suppose to talk about this subject here, so I'll leave it there...

As for things being out dated, I meant in the future, but not the very near future -- these things take time. In the 1930's people laughed at going to the moon. In this case it's not just a technical obstacle, but also a

Don't worry, there will always be Farmer's Markets in your life time.

[Pedaling Fool]

I didn't finish one of my thoughts above, but I think you get the gist...

[Dogwood]

I enjoy open discussion with you PF. I believe we are both willing to listen and consider each others pts of views. Even though it may seem like I disagree with you about much, it's more about me picking out that which I disagree and running with it. We share more in common than it may seem.

Anyone who has a garden as you, has considered planting paw paws, and has Foodie relatives can't be all that misguided.

[Odd Man Out]

Interesting link. My problem, though, is that every time I think I know what it takes to eat healthy, something crazy comes to light. Things like the diet of the tarahumara http://www.runnersworld.com/other-vo...ugh-to-swallow

And now you got the Fruitarian movement. These people eat only fruit, not veggies, just fruit. And some of them seems to be thriving. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjr1OjCkRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2E346ctf1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE5Z1gKiD1s

BTW, those videos are about Mike Arnstein, not only is he an avid Fruitarian, but he's also a ultramarathon runner. The one drawback I see, though, is that these people need to eat tons and tons of fruit per day.

Here is a blog post you may be interested in. He goes on at length to explain the "magic" of the ultra-low fat diet.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-...hought-part-1/

[Pedaling Fool]

Here is a blog post you may be interested in. He goes on at length to explain the "magic" of the ultra-low fat diet.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-...hought-part-1/

Thank you for the link. It's one of those sites that I would probably not have paid much attention to, even do a big , but after skimming over the page you linked it caught my attention and will read it much more in-depth.

I very much like her point copied below:

"I do want to make one thing abundantly clear before we continue, though. The title “In Defense of Low Fat” doesn’t imply its inverse, “In Attack of High Fat.” Quite the opposite! My goal here is to create a space where two very different dietary approaches can sit down for tea, respectfully coexist, and interact without any subsequent homicide investigations."


That's kind of funny and I like...

[Pedaling Fool]

I'm sure glad I follow my common sense (and taste buds) more than fads, even the fads brought on by scientific consensus.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...wpisrc=nl_most

Excerpt:

"This shift in understanding has led to accusations that the Dietary Guidelines harmed those people who for years avoided fats -- as instructed -- and loaded up excessively on the carbohydrates in foods such as breads, cookies and cakes that were marketed as "low fat."It also has raised questions about the scientific foundations of the government’s diet advice: To what extent did the federal government, and the diet scientists they relied upon, go wrong? When the evidence is incomplete on a dietary question, should the government refrain from making recommendations?

The dietary science has drawn the skepticism of some on Capitol Hill. On Wednesday, a House committee will air concerns regarding the evidence for the guidelines with Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and Health and Human Services Secretary Sylvia Burwell.

[Read: Could 95 percent of the world's people be wrong about salt?]

The Dietary Guidelines have stepped back slightly from their blanket advice to reduce saturated fats, adding the caveat that saturated fats ought to be replaced with unsaturated fats. But Dariush Mozaffarian, a cardiologist, epidemiologist, and dean of the Friedman School of Nutrition Science & Policy at Tufts University said that in his view the Dietary Guidelines have yet to retreat far enough from the idea that saturated fat is a dietary evil, and their suspicion of whole milk is a good example. Judging a particular food solely on how much fat it contains, he said, can too easily blind people to its other benefits.

“If we are going to make recommendations to the public about what to eat, we should be pretty darn sure they’re right and won't cause harm,” Mozaffarian said. “There's no evidence that the reduction of saturated fats should be a priority."

[floid]

Just stay away from anything fried. Fresh cold pressed olive and coconut oils are amazing for you and are saturated fats. Any other oil just avoid. Sugar is the worst substance your body can ingest. It promotes cancer cell growth and every human on the planet is born with cancer cells. If you have the willpower to avoid meat, do so. You will get enough protein in your diet from nuts, seeds, lagunes, vegetables, and grains. I lift weights and don't eat meat, I have no issues building muscle. I also have more energy than anyone I work with because I'm not bogged down trying to digest meat all the time. Meat also has cholesterol which does clog arteries. Not trying to turn anyone, just stating the facts. People usually get pretty upset when you tell them they are doing anything wrong and they should change, especially when it comes to their diets. So please don't assume that's what this was all about. I have a little knowledge on the subject, so I shared. That is all, good day

As you point out meet has cholesterol. That is to say normal grocery beef. But that cow isn't eating cholesterol. It is eating corn and grains. Interesting that grass fed beef has much better cholesterol levels. I have read studies that strongly correlate grains with inflammation disease, which includes cholesterol.

I can tell you my wife does not need to take her blood pressure meds when she avoid grains and corn in her diet. Seems to match up with the studies, and the high cholesterol grain fed cow you speak of.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[Odd Man Out]

Meat contains cholesterol and cholesterol causes heart disease. This is restating the myth. Dietary cholesterol and saturated fats are not the enemy. Cholesterol is a necessary competent of all of your cell membranes and your body makes most of its own cholesterol. Here is another article about it.

http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-hea...not-the-enemy/

[Pedaling Fool]

Interesting link. My problem, though, is that every time I think I know what it takes to eat healthy, something crazy comes to light. Things like the diet of the tarahumara http://www.runnersworld.com/other-vo...ugh-to-swallow

And now you got the Fruitarian movement. These people eat only fruit, not veggies, just fruit. And some of them seems to be thriving. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjr1OjCkRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2E346ctf1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE5Z1gKiD1s

BTW, those videos are about Mike Arnstein, not only is he an avid Fruitarian, but he's also a ultramarathon runner. The one drawback I see, though, is that these people need to eat tons and tons of fruit per day.

I'm still keeping track of Mike Arnstein, really curious if this diet presents some problem(s) in the future for him. I do wonder if him being so active is the reason it seems not to have negatively affected him as of yet....of course, this is all based on taking him at his word WRT to his 100% fruit diet.

I came across this article today and Ashton Kutcher didn't fare too well on the diet. He didn't adopt the diet for himself, rather he did it as part of research for his role in a movie about Steve Jobs, who apparently was into this Fruitarian movement. http://health.usnews.com/health-news...hat-went-wrong

Excerpt:


"Method actors tend to go to extreme lengths to get inside the minds of the characters they portray. For Ashton Kutcher, that meant adopting Steve Jobs's fruitarian diet for one month, a regimen based solely on, well, fruit. He's portraying the late Apple CEO in jOBS, a biopic set to hit theaters in April.All that fruit—must be healthy, right?

Not exactly. "I ended up in the hospital two days before we started shooting the movie," Kutcher told reporters at the Sundance Film Festival. "I was doubled over in pain, and my pancreas levels were completely out of whack, which was terrifying, considering everything." Jobs died in October 2011, after a long battle with pancreatic cancer. His fascination with fruitarianism helped inspire his company's name.

Motivation for adopting the diet varies, but followers are typically swayed by health, religious, environmental, and political factors. Many tout fruitarianism as the original diet of mankind, and believe it encourages simple living and a holistic approach to health. Those who latch on are often propelled by a desire not to kill anything, including plants. The regimen comes with a rich history: Leonardo da Vinci was a fruitarian, and Mahatma Gandhi followed the plan for six months in the early 1900s."

[Pedaling Fool]

A very interesting topic on the vegetarian myth... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMCUr_mCJSg

I'm not a paleo guy, but this is still interesting about a person that was a vegan for 20 years, but had serious health problems as a result. She also has a book, if anyone is interested: http://www.amazon.com/The-Vegetarian.../dp/1604860804