Opinion of Car Campers Using Shelters?

[Gambit McCrae]

Last weekend I went to MD to hike from Harpers Ferry to Pen Mar.

Night one we shared the old Rocky Run shelter with two sobos and had a very pleasant evening sharing spirits and stories.

Night two, after hiking in the rain for 16 miles we come to Cowell Shelter just in time to bed down, we are greeted by 10 car campers the "leader" who has a glock on one hip and a fixed black on the other, (looking like he just stepped out of Mountain hardware .com) tells us that his dog(sitting in the shelter) is not friendly and that it is full.

Opinions on this? Was the experience normal? Or did this group infringe on proper trail edicate.

[hikerboy57]

Bring a tent. Problem solved

[winger]

Trail "etiquette"? Not sure what that is intended to mean, all the more reason to have an alternative plan. Alternatives are necessary whether you're on the trail, flying a plane (weather, fuel concerns, bathroom break,etc), or driving (road blocked, accidents, need for sleep, etc), or, you get the idea.
All the more reason I don't use shelters anyway, despise the damn things. I suspect your experience is not that unusual, and others will have similar stories to tell I'm sure.

[bigcranky]

Shelters are first come, first served. Having an armed person tell me that the shelter is full -- well, he wouldn't have to tell me twice, anyway.

[QHShowoman]

The only etiquette for shelters along the AT in MD is "first come, first served." The AT runs through pretty well-populated areas in MD and many of the shelters (Cowell, Pine Knob, etc.) are near road crossings, which makes them popular for weekend car campers. If you're familiar with the trail through MD, you pretty much just try to steer clear of the more popular shelters on weekends.

[flemdawg1]

That sucks, but it happens. I was crowded out of a shelter by a large "urban adventure" group once in a thunderstorm south of Damascus. My tent worked fine.


Eventually, if you go to shelters often enough you'll run into a bad situation. Law of averages.

[MDSection12]

It's not normal, and of course it was not proper etiquette... But it does happen. I hike in MD often (was at Rocky Run last night in fact) and I've never had a problem like that.

[Slo-go'en]

That guy isn't going to make any new friends out there, but he and his group were there first. Plus he had a gun and a mean dog. I'd move along even if there was room.

Other things to consider are:

1) That shelter is very close to two roads. I imagine by calling them "car campers" they walked in from the road an easy 0.2 miles away. Shelters near roads are a big red flag when planning where to stay.

2) Last weekend was Columbus day weekend so you can expect a lot of people to be out. Holiday weekends can really bring out the crazies, so if you go out at all, it is best to find out of the way places in less populated areas to go to.

It was a busy weekend here in Northern NH. Two hikers died - both 60+ year olds, sounds like heart attackes. One lady fell and broke her arm, was able to hike out on her own (day hiker, not far from a road). One lady seriously hurt when her ATV failed to make a turn and she went over a 30 foot embankment (likely going too fast) and a guy shot by his son bird hunting (luckly just got peppered with bird shot).

[CarlZ993]

I'm assuming you left off the word 'knife' in your post ("fixed black __ on the other").

I'd say that 'common sense' was violated by bringing an 'unfriendly dog.' But, common sense isn't that common anymore.

Seeing a pistol on someone's hip is out of the ordinary. I saw it once on my thru in the Smokey's. Active duty Marines on a hike. I carried a pistol on my hip for my entire career (Law Enforcement). Wouldn't think about carrying one on a hike in the lower 48. Too heavy. Security issues. Often ineffective on large animals (bears).

Don't recall the capacity of that shelter. But, 10 people is a lot of people in a shelter. You put up your tent & move on the next day. Shelters close to a road often fill up with 'car campers.' But, they have the same right to stay there as anyone else. Pecking order of shelter entitlement: thru-hiker --> LASHer --> Section Hiker --> Car Camper?

[MDSection12]

Just a note; open carry is not legal in MD... Unless he was law enforcement, which I doubt, then he was illegally carrying. Hike on.

[fiddlehead]

I would have at least taken his picture. (or a video asking him to repeat the warning about his dog)
But yeah, never expect a shelter to be empty (especially on holiday weekends!)

[lush242000]

There are jerks everywhere. Stay away from easy access shelters and your odds of interacting with them drop fast.


Sent from somewhere.

[Lone Wolf]

Last weekend I went to MD to hike from Harpers Ferry to Pen Mar.

Night one we shared the old Rocky Run shelter with two sobos and had a very pleasant evening sharing spirits and stories.

Night two, after hiking in the rain for 16 miles we come to Cowell Shelter just in time to bed down, we are greeted by 10 car campers the "leader" who has a glock on one hip and a fixed black on the other, (looking like he just stepped out of Mountain hardware .com) tells us that his dog(sitting in the shelter) is not friendly and that it is full.

Opinions on this? Was the experience normal? Or did this group infringe on proper trail edicate.

don't EVER count on a shelter. carry your shelter. anyone has a right to a shelter. first come, first served

[Gambit McCrae]

I should have inclued more-
We were prepared to tent and ended up doing so in the nearby camp pads. I guess the ettiquette I speak of is what I believe to be somewhat of a pecking order or atleast common curtacy of leaving the shelter space for people that have hiked long distances to get there. so yes therefore, thrus > sectioners> car campers. But in the end it is what it is and we DID all make out just fine.

He did not state if he was Law Enforcement but it was a glock 9mm full size, and it was a fixed blade* knife and freshly pressed and primped people. The shelter holds apx 10-14 but they also had 2 hammocks and the dog barks quite frequently while my polite and weary lab ignored sparkies attempts to tick him off lol

Lesson learned here- Avoid shelters close to the roads and always expect a full shelter, and to have to tent.

On to my second thread pertaining to this trip > Grudge resident with a heart?

[max patch]

First come first served. No difference if you hiked 1,000 miles to get there or drove up 0.2 miles away.

Having said that, the guy appears to be an azz and I would have filled up my water bottles and moved on.

[Montana]

I guess the ettiquette I speak of is what I believe to be somewhat of a pecking order or atleast common curtacy of leaving the shelter space for people that have hiked long distances to get there. so yes therefore, thrus > sectioners> car campers.

What makes you think that a thru-hiker is more deserving of a spot in a shelter than a sectioner or a car camper? Because they are walking further? That is just silly. Shelter space is, and always has been, first-come-first-served. Thru-hikers are nothing special, they are just people out for a longer than normal walk, and they deserve no special treatment. People that believe and act otherwise are where problems with locals come from (in their eyes you are just a hobo anyway).

Just because a person chooses to give up the 'normal life' for a few months does not mean they deserve to be held up on some pedestal.

[Coffee]

The only place that I know of where thru or section hikers get special preference for shelters is in Shenandoah National Park. The rule is that only those who are out for three nights or more are allowed to occupy shelter space, although I'm not sure whether this is enforced since I've never wanted to stay in a shelter.

[Alligator]

First come first served.

The Ensign Cowall Shelter is listed as sleeping eight in two of my guides. Some people will say there's always room for one more but I think the numbers are usually reasonable. I generally don't stay in one anyway if there are already people there, I'll just set up my shelter.

[Gambit McCrae]

Point well made that Thrus dont deserve special treatment, BUT I do see the trail as a being long distance and I do see the shelters being built for people who have been traveling on the AT to have a quick and easy rest. I do not see the shelters as a place for people to pull off the road and use by walking .2 miles to it! But thats just my opinion

[CB1821]

The ATC states that shelters “are intended for individual hikers, not big groups. If you're planning a group hike, plan to camp out or to yield space to individual hikers who may not have the resources you do”.
If you accept the ATC as the authority for AT rules, then:
1) One could reasonably argue that walking in .2 miles does not qualify a person as a “hiker”, and thus at the very least, they should have not monopolized the shelter.

Even if you accept this group as being “bona fide” hikers,

2) 10 people would seem to constitute a “big group”, and thus they should have planned to camp out or yielded space to GM.
Having said that, I would have gotten water and moved on quickly as some have suggested. It seems like what was encountered was a bad “experience” just waiting to happen.