Eagle Creek Water Crossings

[HooKooDooKu]

I've been trying to map out the water crossings on Eagle Creek using my little brown book and google earth.

Here's what I've got so far: http://home.hiwaay.net/~jll/Upload/WaterCrossings.kmz

The points marked WC# correspond to the crossings as shown in the elevation profile of the little brown book as well as the crossing count as described in the trails description.

But I'm unsure of the water crossing labeled WCq located at 35°29'17.51"N, 83°46'18.12"W. It seems to correspond to the location described in the book as being a footlog bridge with a hand rail. But when you zoom in using Google Earth, you can't see an obvious bridge.

However, the point labeled WCb (actually located on a section of Lakeshore Trail BEFORE the start of Eagle Creek) plainly shows a bridged water crossing.

So I'm trying to determine if the crossing at WCq really is bridged and you just can't see it on Google Earth, or did the author make a mistake and confuse the bridge on Lakeshore trail and the 1st water crossing on Eagle Creek?

[madgoat]

It has been a few years, so the trail may have changed some since I was last there.....

If you are hiking east on Lakeshore Trail, you have the option of turning north and hiking on Eagle Creek, or crossing the bridge across Eagle Creek and continuing on Lakeshore Trail.

When I last did eagle creek, there were no bridged crossings. I recall that there were 3 crossings between the junction with Lakeshore and Campsite 89. Then there was just one crossing immediately on the north side of Campsite 97. The remainder of the crossings (14 I think) were between 89 and 97.

I would look at your map, but .kmz is unknown to me.

Of course, my information may be significantly outdated.

[madgoat]

I have a trip planned in October where we will be hiking Eagle Creek, so I will keep my eyes on this thread.

Thanks

[HooKooDooKu]

I would look at your map, but .kmz is unknown to me.

Sorry, my bad for assuming everyone was familiar with Google Earth.

A kmz file stores waypoints and routes for the Google freeware "Google Earth". If you have Google Earth installed, simply download and open the kmz file, it will automatically open in Google Earth.

Because of the internet resources available, Google Earth is an awesome program for planning hikes in the Smokies. The University of Tennessee Knoxville has a website called GSMNP landforms where you can download waypoints for GSMNP campsites and many points of interest, as well as track logs of all official trails. The waypoints and track logs available at UTK are much more accurate than the base waypoint information available within Google Earth.

[TNhiker]

what edition of the brown book are you using?

because (and this is from memory) at one point eagle creek trail started at CS 90..........that was before they replace the pinnacle creek section of lakeshore and replaced it with the "new" one that cuts from eagle over to hazel creek....

there is a footbridge right after CS 90 that crosses a feeder stream............then you hit the metal bridge.......and shortly thereafter is the turn for lakeshore....

but (and this is from memory of hiking eagle creek last september) after that, there are no more bridged crossings of eagle creek...

i cant use google earth on my work computer......so i cant verify what you have as far as waypoints and what not...

[HooKooDooKu]

It has been a few years, so the trail may have changed some since I was last there.....

If you are hiking east on Lakeshore Trail, you have the option of turning north and hiking on Eagle Creek, or crossing the bridge across Eagle Creek and continuing on Lakeshore Trail.

Things might have changed...

I recall reading in the little brown book that Lakeshore trail used to follow what was otherwise called Pinical Creek trail. But Pinical Creek has since been closed and a new trail was constructed that remains closer to the lake and dryer because it is closer to following a ridge than a creek.

What you have today is campsite #90 located at what could roughly be called the three way intersection of Lakeshore, Eagle Creek, and Lost Cove. When you leave campsite #90 heading North/East you come to a large bridge across Eagle Creek (the Google Earth imagery is detailed enough that you can see the shadow cast by this bridge indicates it is a truss-type bridge). Immediately after this bridge, there is a trail on the right that starts climbing the ridge. That is the continuation of Lakeshore trail. If you go strait, you begin Eagle Creek Trail. Eagle Creek continues to follow the creek as it makes a quick U-Turn to the right. Immediately after the creek's U-Turn, there is a water crossing as Eagle Creek makes a Horse-shoe turn to the left. The description in the little brown book suggests this should be the 1st crossing on Eagle Creek trail by way of a footlog.

While Google Earth has enough details that you can actually measure the width of that 1st bridge (before the start of Eagle Creek trail) to be 7' wide bridge (+/- 1'), it doesn't have enough detail to see a 2' wide footlog that might be in shadows.

Of course the simple act of reviewing Google Earth concentrating in this one section brings to light what I didn't realize when I first placed this post... that the obvious 1st bridge is NOT a footlog. It is a truss bridge that the author could not have possibly confused with a footlog.

So at this point, I'd love for someone with a little brown book to review my kmz file and see if they agree with my interpretation.


Another issue I was a bit fuzzy on has been the location of where the trail is IN Eagle Creek for a distance of 100'. For those reviewing my kmz file, after trying to map these crossings out twice, I've come to the conclusion that this 100' segment is located at the spot my kmz file labels 'W11' (the other spots are WC for Water Crossing... but this spot doesn't "cross" the creek). The other 'unusual' label is WCs3 because that seems to be the crossing of a side creek as described in the little brown book rather than Eagle Creek itself.

The final crossing I'm a bit fuzzy on is the one labeled in the kmz file as 'WC9'. This is the 2nd crossing (when heading up stream) that should take you OFF the island with the campsite on it. I'm a bit fuzzy on this one because the Google Earth imagery isn't fine enough to obviously see the island in Eagle Creek as described in the little brown book.

[HooKooDooKu]

what edition of the brown book are you using?

because (and this is from memory) at one point eagle creek trail started at CS 90..........that was before they replace the pinnacle creek section of lakeshore and replaced it with the "new" one that cuts from eagle over to hazel creek....

there is a footbridge right after CS 90 that crosses a feeder stream............then you hit the metal bridge.......and shortly thereafter is the turn for lakeshore....

but (and this is from memory of hiking eagle creek last september) after that, there are no more bridged crossings of eagle creek...

i cant use google earth on my work computer......so i cant verify what you have as far as waypoints and what not...

I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I think I have the 2009 edition (I know it is at least one edition back from what is currently available, and at least one edition AFTER the 2003 edition).

As you can see from the reply I typed up while you were typing your reply, your description matches what you can SEE in the Google Earth imagery. But if you are correct, then my labels are not properly accounting for one of the unbridged stream crossing. Of course it is plausible that the 1st footlog listed in my 2009 edition has since been washed away (as that is the only thing that seems to make the Google Earth imagery match the description and elevation chart of the brown book).

[TNhiker]

there's a footbridge BEFORE the metal bridge-----just after you leave the campsite...

read my above note........trying to see what edition of the brown book yer using?

[TNhiker]

sorry....we're criss crossing replies...

[TNhiker]

that first footbridge coming outta the campsite was there when i was over there this past fall...

and fwiw....i've done the pinnacle creek trail a few times now......

[BigMW]

My son and I headed from Fontana Dam along the Lakeshore Trail to Eagle Creek Trail on September 1, 2011.... As I remember it, the trail from Lakeshore to Eagle Creek was pretty much how TNhiker described. However, my son has a newer version of the brown book and I have a 1995 version. I have scoured the older, 1995, version and from this older (1995) version there seems to be a descrepancy with a footbridge after crossing the metal-framed bridge as described as follows.... Enjoy....

In the 1995 version, the description of Lakeshore Trail (from #90) is:

The Lakeshore Trail continues from Campsite #90 by crossing Lost Cove Creek via a short footlog with handrail. The trail then continues wide and flat alon the banks of Eagle Creek. At 0.5 miles, the trail turns and crosses the river. Here a wide metal-framed bridge reminds us of the history of the area. The bridge may look old, but don't be fooled. The NPS constructed this miniature railroad bridge in 1991, but left it unpainted to allow it to blend into the history and environment. Continue to follow Eagle Creek upstream and cross it again in a quarter mile. This time you will have to make do with a footlog with handrail. This crossing though is not for the fain of heart when the water is high. The crossing is wide and the river very swift, so take some extra care when crossing."


In the 1995 version, Eagle Creek Trail is described as follows:

"The beginning of the Eagle Creek Trail is 0.8 mile east of Campsite #90 on the Lakeshore Trail. At this junction, the Lakeshore Trail crosses Eagle Creek via a footlog with handrail to follow Pinnacle Creek to Jenkins Ridge. Our trail heads north through a cool hemlock forest for about a quarter mile until it too crosses Eagle Creek. Unfortunately, there is no footlog here at this wide and treacherous crossing. You will have to ford the river, so pull out the wet shoes, hitch up the pack, and take very good care in crossing; and the trail doesn't get any easier."


I do not remember a footlog bridge along Eagle Creek Trail, proper, and theorize it probably got washed out years ago. I do remember our first crossing of Eagle Creek to be a fairly wide junction (although water level was fairly low during our trip in fall 2011). This is where the footlog bridge probably used to be but I'm no expert.... I can check my son's version of the brown book but it probably will eliminate the footlog bridge crossing????? You have got me curious about the exacts of the trail....

[HooKooDooKu]

Ok, lets start with a picture of the area under discussion.
EagleCreek.jpg

Campsite #90 is visible in the lower left hand corner and I've labeled three water crossing in black-n-white ('1', '2', '3').
The while lines are the locations of trails according to the GPS data available at UTK.
The red lines and white words are the trail locations and titles according to Google Earth.
The trial only shown in red labeled as 'Lakeshore Tr' is the old Pinnical Creek Trail (long since closed).

Water crossing '1' is the metal trestle bridge. 200' beyond is the trail intersection of Lakeshore Trail and Eagle Creek Trail. Based on the trail descriptions and elevation profiles used in the little brown book ("Hiking Trails of the Smokies (c)2003) for the segments of Lakeshore trail, this intersection is the start of Eagle Creek.

Note, the brown book is in contraction to the labels Google Earth provides. Google Earth considers this section of the trail to be a continuation of Lost Cove Trail and doesn't have Eagle Creek start until the intersection of the old Pinnical Creek Trail.

The little brown book starts the description of Eagle Creek trail starting 0.5 miles north of campsite #90. That roughly equates to the measurement I make in Google Earth from campsite #90 to the intersection just beyond water crossing '1'.

The little brown book then states "Follow Eagle Creek upstream and cross it with a footlog with handrail. This crossing though is not for the faint of heart. This would seem to correlate with crossing '2'.

The little brown book then states "At 0.7 mile you many notice the junction with the old Pinnacle Creek trail...".

The little brown book follows that up with "[continue] about a quarter mile until [you cross Eagle Creek]. Unfortunately, there is no footlog her." This seems to correlate with the crossing '3'.

All this seems to point that the water crossing marked '2' either should have a footlog, or used to have a foot log. If so, then I feel like I've got my water crossing marked correctly in my kmz file as you travel up the river. If not, then I've got all my water crossing mixed up.

[HooKooDooKu]

that first footbridge coming outta the campsite was there when i was over there this past fall...

That would seem to be a footlog across Lost Cove Creek where that creek joins with Eagle Creek just north of campsite #90 well before the metal trestle bridge.

Otherwise, the only other place I can locate this footbridge is just before the metal trestle bridge. If I look at a 'MyTOPO' map, I can see a small un-nammed creek merging with Eagle Creek just before the crossing on the metal trestle bridge.

[BigMW]

HooKooDooKu,

Please see my description of the earlier "1995" Eagle Creek trail description of the little brown book... A footlog probably WAS there at one time, but probably due to "flowage" of the creek, and damnation replacement, one now has to ford the river. It just ain't there know more....

[TNhiker]

yeah.....

the footlog im thinking and have been talking about is the lost cove one........

but, me thinks, yer overthinking this..... :P

im pretty danged sure----after the metal bridge----no more foot bridges exist to cross the creek.....any creek......cause there are a few feeder streams ya need to cross......like right after CS 89.....which is ekaneetlee creek.......

[TNhiker]

Based on the trail descriptions and elevation profiles used in the little brown book ("Hiking Trails of the Smokies (c)2003) for the segments of Lakeshore trail, this intersection is the start of Eagle Creek.

that is correct, the way i see it...........that is, ever since the lakeshore reroute...........that way it makes lakeshore continual combining the chunks from the dam over to eagle over to hazel (which they also kinda changed the beginning of hazel) over to eventually the tunnel....

[Dogwood]

WHEW! I'm tired reading all those posts. You don't get the first Eagle Creek ford until once on the Eagle Crk Trail. The signage and trails for both the Lakeshore and Eagle Crk Trails are obvious. The EXACT number and depth of the fords that are required on the Eagle CRK Trail depends on water levels. Some are rock hops at low water levels and some can get to be above waist deep at times. In the fall it's my guess the water will not be as deep. Sometimes the Eagle Crk Trail goes onto low islands with water flowing all around. Obviously in higher watre level situations those islands can entail walking in mud or in water for a short distance. At other times the ECT runs onto high and dry land.

[BigMW]

As a side note, for all of those looking for a challenging 4 day, 3 night hike, to #97 (Big Walnut along Eagle Creek), #84 (Sugar Fork along Hazel Creek) and #91 (Upper Losct Cove along Lost Cove). This hike takes you from Fontana Dam along the Lakeshore trail and up Eagle Creek trail to the AT. A short jaunt along the AT brings you to the Jenkins Ridge trail down to the Hazel Creek trail back to the Lakeshore trail to Lost Cove trail to the AT, once again, to your car in a figure 8 pattern. Details follow, otherwise just walk on by.....

We hiked from Fonatana dam along the Lakeshore trail to Eagle Creek trail and stayed at #97 Big Walnut campsite the first night. There are historic home sites and artifacts along old NC Hwy 288 as well as views of Fontana Lake along the way. In September 2011, we encountered noone along the way from #90, to #89 to #96 to #97 (where we stayed). We pitched camp at #97 and readied for the crowd, which never came.... It was kinda freeky starting a fire and sharing it with noone along this trail. We relaxed into the night and both of us could have sworn to hear "crowd" noise in the distance (music, cheering, etc. I guess the creek noise plays tricks on the mind).

The next day, we headed from #97 to Spence Field along the AT which was challenging and it was very hot that day. As a result, we wanted to "air out" our clothing, relax and have lunch at Spence Field. We wondered why noone else was there? Some folks came through looking for the spring but the shelter was empty. We ate, dried out from the climb and then we discovered "why" after leaving the shelter up to the AT. The shelter was closed due to bear activity but, probably due to our BO, no bears were evident. We continued on to the Jenkins Ridge trail (JRT). The JRT was overgrown and we didn't see a single person on it all day. Except, I saw the biggest black bear I've ever seen, scoot down a tree and into, ?????, where did it go? Funny thing is my son didn't even see the bear. Then the trail switched back just below the tree the bear came from!! Good thing is the bear was long gone. We continued down Jenkins Ridge trail, uneventfully, to #84, Sugar Fork, where I was fully anticipating horse campers and many others to be.... There was noone, how eerie, but how doggone cool is that! We camped along Hazel creek by ourselves that night.

The next day we headed down Hazel Creek trail (HCT) to the historic home sites, artifacts and graveyard in Proctor and Medlin. A number of good smelling people were encountered along the way. We took the HCT to the Lakeshore Trail to the Lost Cove trail (LCT) and stayed at #91, Upper Lost Cove, where we finally encountered four othere backpackers!!! One even had hiked in STEAK (and shared it)!!!! We all shared adventurous Smokies hiking stories and it was one of the best nights I've spent in the Smokies.

The final day we headed up the LCT to the AT to Shuckstack Firetower, which is a MUST. I've been there about five times and the views are astounding. If you are afraid of heights, like I am, force yourself up each and every step to the breathtaking views that await. You will not be disappointed. We continued back down the AT to our car and completed yet another great journey in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park wilderness....

Sorry, HooKooDooKu, for the aside, but others had commented on taking this trail so I thought I would comment on our overall trip while it was still on my mind....

[TNhiker]

ummmm......that may have been me with the steak there.......

seriously........

i think you were there with one other guy, and then there was a group of 3 or 4.........and then me solo....

[TNhiker]

yeah.....reading where yer from (illinois) it was me that weekend that had the steak..........id have to look at my notes on when i stayed at 91, but pretty sure it was in september of 2011.....