Goats Do Roam The Appalachian National Scenic Trail - National Parks Traveler

[WhiteBlaze]

National Parks Traveler

Goats Do Roam The Appalachian National Scenic Trail National Parks Traveler If you've walked any part of the Appalachian Trail, you've seen hikers walking with their dog. Some are doing a half-day hike; others are going all the way. But why limit yourself to a dog? How would you like to hike the Appalachian Trail with a goat ...

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[RED-DOG]

Yep i have seen them on the Humps.

[coach lou]

I have read that they can carry twice what a llama will carry and are as loyal as a Labrador!

[Feral Bill]

as loyal as a Labrador!

A great simile and alliteration, too! Extra credit for you.

[Slo-go'en]

Unfortunately, pack animals are not allowed on the AT. Free range goats are one thing, but put a pack on one and have it carry gear and you now have a pack animal. (Which technically forbids dogs with packs too, but that doesn't seem to be enforced.)

[Old Hiker]

Can anyone say, "Cabrito"?

[FarmerChef]

Who are you calling a goat?!?

[Old Hiker]

Who are you calling a goat?!?

And an old one, too !!

Oh, wait. That's me.

Never mind.

[Malto]

Unfortunately, pack animals are not allowed on the AT. Free range goats are one thing, but put a pack on one and have it carry gear and you now have a pack animal. (Which technically forbids dogs with packs too, but that doesn't seem to be enforced.)

I was going to mention this as well. Looks like maybe someone didn't do their homework. There have been cases of goats on the PCT where it is allowed.

[Feral Bill]

Unfortunately, pack animals are not allowed on the AT.

Unfortunately? I use share pack-stock and hiking trails a lot. They are not tidy animals.

[simeo]

Unfortunately, pack animals are not allowed on the AT. Free range goats are one thing, but put a pack on one and have it carry gear and you now have a pack animal. (Which technically forbids dogs with packs too, but that doesn't seem to be enforced.)

I'm really sorry to bring up an old thread .... I couldn't find any newer information about this... but where is the regulation regarding this? The Appalachian Trail Conservancy on their website says the National Park Service prohibits pack animals but the National Park Service actually states pack goats ARE allowed in their management policies manual (section 8.2.2.8) and the US Code of Federal Regulations Chapter 36 Section 2.16 regulates their use. There seems to be a conflict of information going around about pack goats but there is no legal regulation I'm aware of against pack goats on the AT.

Besides, pack goats are very low impact animals. We hike with ours on local trails and are very respectful and move to the side/stop when other hikers are coming our way. Everybody loves to see a goat, pet and chat a little and pack goats light up everybody's face along the trail! What's more, without pack goats we wouldn't be able to go on long camps with kids who aren't able to carry in much on their small selves. Wildlife is also much calmer around us with goats than without. My wife and I can't help but think the presence of a 'deer-like' animal peacefully walking with humans just seems to make other prey animals more at peace.

I would understand a true regulation against large pack animals though, but from what I could see there is no regulation against even large pack animals (horse, mule, donkey). These large pack animals are not low impact and require a lot of energy (eat more) so I could imagine how they'd harm the trial. Additionally Equine are not nearly as sure-footed as a goat. I've never hiked with an 'equine' but I'd think it'd be a mild disaster.

[Slo-go'en]

I'm really sorry to bring up an old thread .... I couldn't find any newer information about this... but where is the regulation regarding this? The Appalachian Trail Conservancy on their website says the National Park Service prohibits pack animals but the National Park Service actually states pack goats ARE allowed in their management policies manual (section 8.2.2.8) and the US Code of Federal Regulations Chapter 36 Section 2.16 regulates their use. There seems to be a conflict of information going around about pack goats but there is no legal regulation I'm aware of against pack goats on the AT.

o - Pack animals, including horses, mules, burros, goats, and llamas are not allowed.

The above quote is from the NPS regulations as posted on the ATC website, which are specific to the AT. The NPS oversees the entire AT corridor (not just the parts which pass through actual National Parks) and is specific to the AT, so it trumps any other rule. There maybe additional regulations for sections which traverse National Forest, state or local land.

Pack animals are allowed in many Parks and National Forests, mostly out west, but are banded on the AT corridor. I know a guy who hikes with goats in Colorado and from his videos, they would be a blast to have around. When it comes to scaling cliffs, even the domestic goats are fearless.

[simeo]

The above quote is from the NPS regulations as posted on the ATC website, which are specific to the AT. The NPS oversees the entire AT corridor (not just the parts which pass through actual National Parks) and is specific to the AT, so it trumps any other rule. There maybe additional regulations for sections which traverse National Forest, state or local land.

Pack animals are allowed in many Parks and National Forests, mostly out west, but are banded on the AT corridor. I know a guy who hikes with goats in Colorado and from his videos, they would be a blast to have around. When it comes to scaling cliffs, even the domestic goats are fearless.

Right, I saw that on the ATC website. The ATC website is incorrect in stating the NPS regulates against pack animals on the AT though. I read all the NPS regulations today (wooo, lots of legal speak) and in no place does it state pack animals are not allowed according to the NPS. (It does say it is not allowed according to the ATC on the website, but it is not a legal regulation) There are however legal regulations as to how your supposed to maintain your pack animals on NPS land. So it's just ATC policy, but not "law".

To me that says it would be pretty easy to change that policy if enough of us mentioned it to the ATC or one smart person at the ATC said "You know... small pack animals are ok." and just deleted that bit of misinformation about the NPS regulating against pack animals.

Like you said hiking the AT with pack goats is a wonderful idea! My goats follow extremely well on trails and even scale cliffs with me! This past weekend I decided to take a day to relax at Raven's Cliff (short 5 mile hike) here and my pack goat just hopped up the cliff with me and sat on a ledge with me while I was relaxing!

The Pacific Crest Trail is one really popular trail out west with plenty of pack goats. I would have imagined there would be more regulation over there because wild goats are actually common and domestic goats may interfere with the wildlife! I was absolutely shocked to hear about the ATC policy.

What could we do to get them to overturn that you think?

[Dogwood]

Interesting that you brought that regulation up Simeo because I've seen, I'm not going to name names, people with goats(no packs on their backs, ie; they weren't legally packing anything), cross short/travel on sections of the AT with their goats. When I politely asked the same thing - I thought goats weren't allowed on the AT? - this person said what they were doing was legal. The goats, of which I've seen this same person twice with them on two different occasions, were quite friendly and respectful of hikers. I kinda liked seeing this person with the goats.

[Dogwood]

This person said almost word for word what you last said about the regs Simeo.

[rocketsocks]

I ain't fraid a no Goats. images (9).jpg

[rocketsocks]

The above quote is from the NPS regulations as posted on the ATC website, which are specific to the AT. The NPS oversees the entire AT corridor (not just the parts which pass through actual National Parks) and is specific to the AT, so it trumps any other rule. There maybe additional regulations for sections which traverse National Forest, state or local land.

Pack animals are allowed in many Parks and National Forests, mostly out west, but are banded on the AT corridor. I know a guy who hikes with goats in Colorado and from his videos, they would be a blast to have around. When it comes to scaling cliffs, even the domestic goats are fearless.

That's the fella that hikes to the top of mountains an sets up a Ham radio to make contacts?...pretty neat.

[Gambit McCrae]

National Park Service Rules and Regulations

Listed below is a summary of rules and regulations set and enforced by the National Park Service for the NPS-acquired A.T. corridor. This is not a comprehensive list.

• Overnight stays at camping and/or shelter sites shall be limited to the maximum number of nights specified by local authorities (typically 2–3) or to two nights where no local policies have been adopted.
• Camping shall follow policies established by local authorities or shall be limited to established overnight shelters and tenting areas.
• Dead wood may be collected for use in campfires at designated campsites or shelters. Campfires are prohibited except at those locations specifically designated by local authorities.
• All fires shall be completely extinguished and cold to the touch prior to abandonment.
• Disposal of human bodily waste shall be accomplished only at sanitary facilities or must be buried four to six inches deep in an area not frequented by the public, not visible from trails, campsites or developed areas, and at least 100 feet from any water source.
• Motorized vehicles are not permitted.
• Bicycles, mountain bikes, and wheeled conveyances are not permitted on the Trail or the Trail corridor.
• Pack animals, including horses, mules, burros, goats, and llamas are not allowed.
• All edible berries, fruits, and nuts found along the A.T. footpath may be gathered by hand for personal consumption.
• Any noise level from a radio, tape deck, compact disc, or other mechanical device that is more audible than a conversational voice at a distance of 50 feet from the source is prohibited.
• Scattering of human ashes (memorialization) on NPS lands is prohibited without a special permit from the NPS director.
• The installation of any monument, memorial, tablet, structure or other commemorative along the A.T. or in the A.T. corridor is prohibited without authorization by the NPS.
• Permits are required for certain activities, including specimen collection, special events, public assemblies, sale/distribution of printed matter, agricultural grazing, memorialization, business operations, and commercial photography.
• All incidents resulting in injury to persons or damage to property in excess of $300 must be reported by persons involved to the superintendent (park manager or his/her rep) as soon as possible.

• Visit the National Park Service Web site for more information on the national parks that the Trail passes through—Blue Ridge Parkway, C&O Canal National Historical Park, Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, and Shenandoah National Park

[simeo]

National Park Service Rules and Regulations

Listed below is a summary of rules and regulations set and enforced by the National Park Service for the NPS-acquired A.T. corridor. This is not a comprehensive list.

• Overnight stays at camping and/or shelter sites shall be limited to the maximum number of nights specified by local authorities (typically 2–3) or to two nights where no local policies have been adopted.
• Camping shall follow policies established by local authorities or shall be limited to established overnight shelters and tenting areas.
• Dead wood may be collected for use in campfires at designated campsites or shelters. Campfires are prohibited except at those locations specifically designated by local authorities.
• All fires shall be completely extinguished and cold to the touch prior to abandonment.
• Disposal of human bodily waste shall be accomplished only at sanitary facilities or must be buried four to six inches deep in an area not frequented by the public, not visible from trails, campsites or developed areas, and at least 100 feet from any water source.
• Motorized vehicles are not permitted.
• Bicycles, mountain bikes, and wheeled conveyances are not permitted on the Trail or the Trail corridor.
• Pack animals, including horses, mules, burros, goats, and llamas are not allowed.
• All edible berries, fruits, and nuts found along the A.T. footpath may be gathered by hand for personal consumption.
• Any noise level from a radio, tape deck, compact disc, or other mechanical device that is more audible than a conversational voice at a distance of 50 feet from the source is prohibited.
• Scattering of human ashes (memorialization) on NPS lands is prohibited without a special permit from the NPS director.
• The installation of any monument, memorial, tablet, structure or other commemorative along the A.T. or in the A.T. corridor is prohibited without authorization by the NPS.
• Permits are required for certain activities, including specimen collection, special events, public assemblies, sale/distribution of printed matter, agricultural grazing, memorialization, business operations, and commercial photography.
• All incidents resulting in injury to persons or damage to property in excess of $300 must be reported by persons involved to the superintendent (park manager or his/her rep) as soon as possible.

• Visit the National Park Service Web site for more information on the national parks that the Trail passes through—Blue Ridge Parkway, C&O Canal National Historical Park, Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, and Shenandoah National Park

Right, I saw that on the ATC website but NOT within the NPS official rules and regulations. As I mentioned earlier I was looking for the legal code. Not policy. That's just policy as written on a website.

The following is also on the ATC website:

"The Appalachian Trail Conservancy and local Trail clubs may make policy and influence actions affecting the Trail but have no law-enforcement authority...... Keep in mind that not all Trail behavior is codified into legal regulations."

Regardless, even if it's not legal code.... why the ATC would not want goats and small pack animals on the trail when they are allowed in many other locations is unknown to me? Even the legal code allows for them. The legal code already specifies that they can not "obstruct" a trail or make "unreasonable noise" and can not be "free trailing". So make sure your animals are polite and orderly on the trail. Also the legal code mandates for you to carry feed pellets and/or hay with you to "supplement grazing" in "areas where demand for available grazing for recreational and administrative stock exceeds allowable limits" so they don't make a significant impact on native vegetation. Which is completely understandable as well.

Looks like everything is covered to me. So the only restriction here to goats is the ATC?

Like you said earlier Dogwood, whenever somebody meets my goat(s) on the trails they are absolutely FILLED with joy! Every time we see somebody coming our way we stop on the side of whatever trail we're on to let them pass but 95% of the time the other hikers stop and with a big smile on their face beg "Can we pet it?!?" It makes my wife and I happy to see the joy on their faces too!

[rocketsocks]

I love goin' to the farmers market where they have some live stock to pet and play with. Nothin' cooler than a baby pygmy goat buckn' my legs...always gives me quite a tickle, he's a neat little dude.