Campsites 20 or 21 ??

[madgoat]

Bears at #37? Maybe.... But I have had more problems with mice there. #37 is a huge campsite so getting a spot for hammocks would be no problem. But it also can be a crowded campsite, so arrive early for best campsite selection.

#47 is a great site, but I agree with HooKooDooKu.... not great for hammocks. I spent a very uncomfortable night there stretched between two trees that were way too close together for a proper lay. Beautiful site otherwise. It has been several years since I hiked through there. Does anyone know if they ever replaced the bear pole with cables? I had a very hard time getting my food bag up on the pole last time I was there and finally ended up hanging my food bag under the bridge over the water.

[Rain Man]

This is news to me! Maybe I've heard or read of it, but forgot. Anyway, I'm going with a Nashville group over Memorial Day weekend to Gregory Bald, camping at campsites 92 and then 13 from Twenty Mile Ranger Station. We'll probably watch the sunset from Gregory Bald, weather permitting.

Should we be on the lookout for this phenomenon? I'd love to see it. Thanks for any advice for our group.

RainMan

.

[sliderule]

This is news to me!

RainMan

.

Assuming that you are referring to the fireflies (and not bears, mice or bridges), they have become quite the attraction over the past few years. Anyone going near Sugarlands or Elkmont during the second week of June should be aware of special procedures and restrictions.

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/naturescience/fireflies.htm

[SGT Rock]

We just watch them in our yard.

[SGT Rock]

Bears at #37? Maybe.... But I have had more problems with mice there. #37 is a huge campsite so getting a spot for hammocks would be no problem. But it also can be a crowded campsite, so arrive early for best campsite selection.

Every time I have ever tried to get into campsite #37 in the past, it was "closed for bear activity". The funny thing was, the last time I tried to get campsite #37, campsite #36 was not closed (they are right next to each other for those that have never been there) but they wouldn't allow me to stay in #36 because I didn't have a horse. I stopped even trying to use #37 about 2 years ago. Standard bureaucratic stupidity.

[DandT40]

I took my two daughters on a trip in March and we ended up staying at campsite 21 (hadn't planned on it, but a snow storm changed our plans). There are plenty of trees there to hammock so that wouldn't be an issue. The trail up there - Little River Trail - is probably one of the easiest trails in the park and even during the snow storm had a lot of people on it, but it is about 3 miles from Elkmont. The .5 mile spur off the little river to the campsite is a little more work as it has some elevation involved, but nothing to worry about because its such a short stretch.

[sliderule]

The funny thing was, the last time I tried to get campsite #37, campsite #36 was not closed (they are right next to each other for those that have never been there) but they wouldn't allow me to stay in #36 because I didn't have a horse. I stopped even trying to use #37 about 2 years ago. Standard bureaucratic stupidity.

Evidently, the bureaucracy got a little smarter. According tho the reservation system, backpackers without horses are no longer prohibited from using #36.

But, you still cannot use some front country campsites if you don't have an RV.

[TNhiker]

Yup.....there are bear cables at 37 along (at least 2 years ago) the bear pole...

The cables use the bridge as the supports (usually trees in other campsites) so while it gets bags up in the air--it's still almost within arms reach....

[SGT Rock]

Evidently, the bureaucracy got a little smarter. According tho the reservation system, backpackers without horses are no longer prohibited from using #36.

But, you still cannot use some front country campsites if you don't have an RV.

I would like to think I had something to do with that. Maybe not...

But a couple of years ago when I was at the open house dealing with the new back country fees, I brought up that instance of not being allowed to use #36 to Melissa Colburn (I hope I spelled that right) who was head of back country operations at the time and a good person. She thought that was ridiculous as much as I did and said she would look into it.

[sliderule]

I would like to think I had something to do with that.

Good for you. Historically, the "horse union" has wielded a little too much influence in the Park.

[ToddW]

Thanks for all the input. We're looking forward to the fireflies, if we get to see them. Discounting the fireflies and for just time in the woods, any preferences on 20 or 21 vs 36? I'm not sure if I said but our two kids are going, a 14 yr old boy (no concerns) and a 13 yr old daughter (hiking is not her favorite activity).

[Blue Wolf]

I have seen them in the past at campsite 24, however 21 is a very nice site and a lot closer to the general area.

[TNhiker]

I would take 20 or 21 over 36.....

While 36 is somewhat of a nice site, the others are better......

[madgoat]

I saw this article on my news feeds yesterday.... It explains with a bit of depth about where and when to see the fireflies at locations other than elkmont.

http://yoursmokies.blogspot.com/2013...nchronous.html

[HooKooDooKu]

This is news to me! Maybe I've heard or read of it, but forgot. Anyway, I'm going with a Nashville group over Memorial Day weekend to Gregory Bald, camping at campsites 92 and then 13 from Twenty Mile Ranger Station. We'll probably watch the sunset from Gregory Bald, weather permitting.

Should we be on the lookout for this phenomenon? I'd love to see it. Thanks for any advice for our group.

RainMan

.

I've done that loop (as well as Tenty Mile to 113, 13 and back). Excellent hike... except for the hike down Wolf Ridge. I don't know why, but for some reason that trail feels like it takes forever.

You might already be experienced enough around Gregory Bald to know the following, but just in case...
1. On the hike up, make sure to load up on water for the 2nd night at Moore Spring. That way you don't have to hike the 100 yards or so down the moutain from 13 to get water. To get to Moore Spring, there is an extra unmarked trail (except for a H20--> scratched into one of the signs) at the intersection of Gregory Bald/Gregory Ridge/Long Hungry Ridge (Rich Gap). Follow this narrow some what over grown trail for almost 1/2 mile until you come to a rock with a pipe growing out of it. It's a nice lunch spot. Then after lunch, load up on water for the night. Don't go back the way you came. There is a trail somewhere from Moore Spring over to Gregory Bald trail. I've seen the trail intersection hiking between Rich Gap and Gregory Bald, but I've never found it leaving from Moore Spring. So if you don't find an alternate trail, simply start hiking strait up hill and you'll soon intersect the trail between Rich Gap and Gregory Bald.
2. Only stay at Gregory Bald for a breif view and capture a couple of pictures. Then go ahead and head down to camp 13. It's only about 1/4 mile past the Bald. It's a populare site, so I suggest going early to find the best camp site (though there are many). My personal favoraite is the North East corner of the camp ground (near enough to bear cables, and right on the edge of the semi-open hill side to make quick work of finding a place to pee in the middle of the night). Then for dinner, take your cooking gear and food back up to the Bald. The Bald is much less crowded in the evening, and then simply stay there until night fall.


As for the fireflies, they are NOT ubiquitous through out the park. Apparently there are multiple species of syncronous firefiles in the park, each with their own habitats, preferences, and habits (some flash in true syncronisouty, some flash in a wave, etc).

The most well known set of syncronous fireflies are the ones located around Elkmont. I think that is the only spot near any front-country that the fireflies are known to appear. This thread has pointed out they have been seen near Elkmont, camp sites 47, 53, and 64 (plus what ever that blog in post #34 points to... can't get there from here). That's only a very small percentage of the park.

I believe I've read that the fireflies like water (if true, I doubt you'll see them at the bald or site #13). There timing greatly depends upon the weather. When they do come out, it's usually for about two weeks. It's possible for them to appear as early as late May and as late as mid-June. It seems like the National Park Service plans for the fireflies to appear at Elkmont centered about June 6th. But last year, they had just about waned by then.

To see them, simply open your eyes as soon as it gets dark. Either there will be a few scattered fireflies around like you are used to seeing in your backyard, or the air will be filled with them flashing in syncronisity (I believe it takes some crittle mass for the syncronisity to occur, so if they are small in number and scattered like you're use to seeing in your back-yard, there will not be syncronisity).

In otherwords, if it is occuring around you, you can't miss it. (It's an ausome sight to watch).

[Rain Man]

... You might already be experienced enough around Gregory Bald to know the following, but just in case...

No, have never set foot in that part of the Park. So, thank you, thank you for all the good intel.

Our trip leader has done Gregory Bald two or three times, though I don't know which trails.

RainMan

.

[TNhiker]

Agreed with Moore spring...

IMO---one of the best springs in the park..

The trail that goes to the bald goes up the hill from the spring....

As in, if yer coming in for the trail described above, don't go straight at the spring (that takes you up to the old shelter site) but rather go towards the right and up the hill...

This trail is kinda overgrown but somewhat easy to follow as one is just basically climbing up to the bald....

Bring some sort of collection bag and avoid the spring nearest 13...

That one is a hog wallow......I've seen pigs lay in that one as well as horses drinking outta it with manure around it...

It's well worth it to go to Moore spring...

[HooKooDooKu]

Here's the location of Moore Spring: http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~dunigan/gsm...&mt=6&scale=15

The trail that goes to the bald goes up the hill from the spring....
As in, if yer coming in for the trail described above, don't go straight at the spring (that takes you up to the old shelter site) but rather go towards the right and up the hill...
This trail is kinda overgrown but somewhat easy to follow as one is just basically climbing up to the bald....

TNhiker,
I'm a bit confused by your instructions. Can you try to make things a little more clear?

What I know is that the trail from Rich Gap to Moore Sping is easy to find, easy to follow (btw, I remeasured on Google Earth, the Spring is 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile from Rich Gap). I know I've also seen the other end of the trail where it reconnects with Gregory Bald Trail (about half way between Rich Gap and the Bald). However, I've never followed the trail from the Gregory Bald Trail intersection down to the Spring (I've only followed the trail between Rich Gap and the Spring). Once I've gotten to Moore Spring, I haven't been able to spot the trail going up hill toward Gregory Bald Trail. Since the distance to Gregory Bald Trail is only a little more than 100 yards from the Spring, I've just always gone off-trail and hike strait up hill. I'm likely walking parallel to the actual trail and missing it by less than 50'.

So if you are standing at the Spring, facing up hill with the trail to Rich Gap on your right, how do you locate the trail that takes you up the mountain towards Gregory Bald Trail (for you can see from the map that the trail intersection with Gregory Bald Trail is about 300 yards below the Bald)?

That one is a hog wallow....

Oh yea, I forgot about that. Not only is the water source for camp #13 about 300 yards DOWN HILL from camp, but its just a minor seep that empties into a bog.

If you find you have to get more water once you reach camp 13, you hike down the Gregory Bald trail. About 300 yards down the trail, you'll come to two tiny water seeps that cross the trail and dump into a large mud puddle on your left.

While I've seen guys trying to get water from the mud puddle, I've always been able to get water from one of the two seeps on the right side of the trail. I simply take several steps up-hill along the seep until a find a spot where I can clear a few pebbles to make a tea-cup saucer size collection bowl in the middle of the seep. I've then been able to use my Sweetwater pump to suck up the water from the small little depression so that my water source is from a flowing source rather than a stagnant source.

[ToddW]

[QUOTE=ToddW;1468973 any preferences on 20 or 21 vs 36?

I actually meant 37, not 36 as this is mainly a horse site. So 20 vs 21 vs 37....

[TNhiker]

Standing at the spring---with water coming from pipe going right to left (and trail from rich gap at yer back)------look towards the right and uphill.....

There's a tiny bit of a pathway that is the trail that connects to bald..

Like I says, it's a bit overgrown in spots so it can be tough to find....

And to be honest, I've found it just as easy to backtrack the main trail to the intersection with rich gap...

It's been a couple of years since I've been up there so I'm going on memory...

Also, I think I'd still stick with 20 or 21 over 37....but that's just me...

All three are nice spots but 37 seemingly always has a crowd...