Can it be done?

[Violent Green]

Experience is your real limiting factor in this situation. Experience will teach you how to fuel your body for 30miles daily and how to take care of your feet each day. If either of these are off, you will fail. It really helps to have these dialed in for +20 miles per day, much less 30. If you can get those perfected plus have a light pack, you would be getting closer....

Ryan

[BillyGr]

If you are really planning to hike - as was noted above, there are areas easy to get to from where you are located (Harriman was mentioned - another would be via NYC and Metro North to the AT stop in NY). Why not start at one of those and head north?
That way, if you find it harder than you expect, you could slow down and still easily get to Maine in the time given (or even less), and if you did manage to make it fairly quickly, you could then figure a way back and head South from the same point. Or if it turned out to be really hard for you, you have several options along the trail to get back to NYC and home fairly easily.

[Piragua]

I've heard of her. She seems to have had a lot of experience hiking before setting off. I mean she was young, but its an almost irrelevant comparison with the miles he had put in before. And like one of the members posting later said, it was a spiritual journey for her. But I will look for advice from her. Thank you.

[Dogwood]

What is the down side of trying?... you are in good shape...Good luck!

Uhh, he re-aggravates the OVER USE INJURY he mentioned possibly making it and something else worse! He has a history of over doing things and possibly taking on TOO MUCH TOO SOON WITH A LACK OF PREPARATION AND FORETHOUGHT!!!!!!!Read his post! Now you are rah rah go for it cheerleading him towards possibly doing it again? Best thing you said in your post is Good Luck!

[Dogwood]

I guess he/she took his trail name from his travels in Puerto Rico or is floating along like a canoe without a rudder. He then joins three days ago, goes public with this idea, says he was a runner on an organized cross country sports team, and solicits advice from people whom he doesn't even know asking this question, "Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain? - Piragua", expecting intelligent informed answers. Red flagged! I will not waste my time further. You all do what you want. If I only had $1 every time this or something similar occurred here on WB I would be able to fund my next hike. Maybe some might think I'm a dick for saying this but be real! Snap out of it. Wake up.

[Piragua]

I've been a boy scout leader and backpacker my whole life. My son ran cross country and track. I've lead many scouts on day hikes, weekend hikes and week long section hikes...I'm also a runner. Running is not hiking. You use different muscles. For one thing you are moving your feet all day. The boys I have lead on section hikes (all in good shape, athletic) usually average 1 to 1.5 miles per hour on AT terrain.

I would first challenge you to find a trail near you, on level ground and try hiking 30 miles. Don't use a pack.(that would be almost impossible for you)...try it.
(no running allowed).

You think you will also find hiking "techniques" will be learned rather quickly. Hiking "techniques" are what keeps you warm, dry, and fed. They also keep you from getting lost. I've been camping/backpacking my whole life and I'm still learning new "techniques". There is more to it than you think. Everything from hanging a bear bag to fixing your blisters. Read the forums here, there are many things to master. Can you fix a stove? In the rain? In the dark??

I always encourage people to hike, but take some baby steps first. Next rainy night...sleep outside. Try some long day hikes. Part of the problem with inexperienced people is that they don't know their limits and they get into trouble.

so... TAKE A HIKE!!!

Now you say that running is nothing like hiking. Isn't there some truth in saying
that in replacement of long day hikes you can put in some short, high-intensity
runs? One of the later posters said that he's seen even marathoners that can't
handle long day hiking. I really don't know what to make of that. But as for
the use of different muscles used, I totally agree. I've long ago come to terms
with the difference between even trail and road running that will cripple a
road runner if they're not careful to adjust. What muscles and anatomical
development would you suggest on working though? I'm not too knowledgeable
about this since I only road-run.

Do you suppose that working out those specific "trail-muscles" or walking on tread-mills for long periods of time could be a substitute to long day hikes? I might not get the trail experience or the elevation gain/loss, but it seems the closest I can get to preparing around where I live.

As for the hiking techniques, yes, there's always room for improvment, but I don't need to have anything better than skills adequate enough to survive. Like you said, the forums should be of great help. Anyway, a few days, because of a steep learning curve, should be enough to get my bearings. I plan on going on the appalachian trail for a few days soon enough to get in some practice. In your experience, however, does altitude training make a differece? I've been told that walking a few thousand meters up is going to be much more difficult, but the appalchian mountains are ,except for one mountain, never more than 2000m high.

I appreciate that you're able to accept that while it's unrealistic, it's possible with the effort. I think more people could adopt your non-extremist tone between encouraging all unrealistic ventures and disparaging all unusual efforts. You seem very knowledgeable and I'd like to hear more from you.

[Piragua]

I believe you need to be able to do 150% of your desired average and be able to walk the next day.

Where did you find this statistic? It sounds real, but I'd like a source if you have one so I can find out more.

The PCT, I believe is almost coninuously higher in elevation that the applachian, which makes it more difficult.

By all means, you're right though, that experience is the key factor. I'm planning to hike for a few days in a row. I do, however, believe that a good amount of motivation and not so many hours of experience are necessary. The learning curve is steep afterall, and after a while you're spending your time perfecting your techniques, not learning them. Thank you for your help.

[Rasty]

Where did you find this statistic? It sounds real, but I'd like a source if you have one so I can find out more.

The PCT, I believe is almost coninuously higher in elevation that the applachian, which makes it more difficult.

By all means, you're right though, that experience is the key factor. I'm planning to hike for a few days in a row. I do, however, believe that a good amount of motivation and not so many hours of experience are necessary. The learning curve is steep afterall, and after a while you're spending your time perfecting your techniques, not learning them. Thank you for your help.

Why would continuous higher elevation be more difficult? Logic tells you that going up and down will be more difficult then staying up higher.

[Piragua]

You can get to Harriman state Park, in NY, by rail from Edison. A section of the AT, and a couple of hundred miles of other trails await you there. In summer you can get by with minimal gear (see the endless discussions of gear here) and find out what you can do for yourself. Good luck.

Great advice. I was actually wondering how to get to the appalachian trail without the use of car.

[Piragua]

Why would continuous higher elevation be more difficult? Logic tells you that going up and down will be more difficult then staying up higher.

I meant that the PCT was on average much higher than the AT and it had greater elevation gains/losses.Isn't that true?

[Rasty]

I meant that the PCT was on average much higher than the AT and it had greater elevation gains/losses.Isn't that true?

The PCT is a horse trail for the most part. It's longer, higher but not harder from my understanding.

[jersey joe]

Before I tell you why I don't think you have a chance let me start by saying that I did exactly what you are proposing. Here's my per hike story:
1) I had been backpacking for years prior and LOVE the outdoors.
2) I trained specifically for the task for a year and a half.
3) I had hiked over 57 miles in a day prior to leaving, and that was with over 15000' elevation gain. I believe you need to be able to do 150% of your desired average and be able to walk the next day.
4) I got my base weight down to 8 lb. And I knew my gear, having used it exactly in the same high mile scenario as I was proposing. I could setup camp in under 15 minutes and tear down in the same.
5) one goal of my training was to make sure that none of my five hardest days of hiking occurred on my trip.
6) I completely understood how to fuel, hydrate and what my electrolyte limitations were.
7) I had my resupplies completely dialed in. I spent very little time in town.
8) I LOVE walking. There is nothing more relaxing for me.
9) I hiked thousands of miles solo. I knew I could spend time with myself.
10) I trained in all conditions I expected to hit of my hike. Rain, snow, darkness, desert, high elevation etc.
11) I had the money to buy my way into efficiency. I was able to anticipate gear failures and have items like new shoes ready before they were needed.

Some good advice here...I definitely agree with having your resupply dialed in. You can waste a lot of time and carry a lot of unnecessary weight if you don't get your resupply strategy worked out properly.

[prain4u]

Just a bit of clarification: For me, the issue is not whether the OP would be able to complete a thru hike. (The OPs chances of completion are about as good as anyone else who is a newbie). The big issue is the ability of ANY newbie to complete a thru hike in 75 days (or less). The short duration of the proposed thru hike is the part which borders on being a near impossibility.

[Snowleopard]

If you try to start out with 30 miles/day without specific training for hiking with a backpack, you'll likely injure yourself quickly. Your baseline physical conditioning is very high because of your running but you still have more to do:
*Do long walks with a backpack, gradually increasing distance and weight.
*Try to find hills to walk in, even if it's walking up and down a short hill or walking stairs (look at google maps terrain feature that shows elevation, there are hills near you).
*As someone said above, you need to dial in your equipment and camping skills so you are efficient at setting up and breaking camp, making meals, treating water, etc. If necessary you can do this by putting up your tent/tarp and cooking meals in your back yard.
*You need to learn how to manage your clothing layers in different weather; this might be easier running where you're always going at high effort, than hiking where you're going up hill and down and stopping for food and rest.
*You need to be sure that your shoes don't give you blisters hiking on uneven, rocky footing in hills; maybe your current running shoes will work or maybe not.
*Getting your pack weight as low as reasonable will help because the work of hiking will then be more like the running you do now. BUT, it takes experience to safely get by with an ultralight pack weight.

Since you're young and in good condition already, getting in condition for hiking will not take long. My guess is that if you started the AT NOBO and took it easy for several hundred miles you could then do long mile days regularly if you still want to.

[Piragua]

I will not tell you it's impossible but probably unlikely as SO MANY OTHERS with 1000's and 1000's of EARNED trail miles. BIG BIG BIG difference pounding at a keyboard making plans and actually executing those plans. It's also a BIG BIG BIG difference between knowing what to do and DOING what you know to do! If you just read over that and casually dismissed it by thinking yeah, yeah, I know, that's a perfect example and probably should be telling you something about yourself and you accomplishing what you propose.

I'll tell you some other things IF you are still with me. While it can be GREAT learning things from accomplished very experienced people like Andrew Skurka you need to have an intimate understanding that YOU ARE NOT EXACTLY HIM. Take things into context about Andrew Skurka. He's a supremely conditioned accomplished runner/LONG LONG LONG distance hiker having EARNED over many years what he now possesses and currently accomplishes! I've also witnessed him hiking. IMHO, despite him saying that doing bigger MPD entails hiking longer hrs at a moderate/about average pace of 2.5 mph that's not ENTIRELY how he does HIS BIG MPD. IMHO, he hikes with a no nonsense ABOVE AVERAGE PACE and AND hikes LONG hours and does so as the result of finding what works BEST FOR HIM to accomplish these goals. He would probably be the first to tell you that where he now is is the result of EVOLVING, at least to some extent, over many years. Reality check. What's BEST FOR HIM or what he does accomplish may not be WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU or what you might accomplish! Just a little advice from someone who understands these things not from a textbook or website but by spending LONG hrs and hiking extensive miles on trail finding what's currently right for himself.

People like Scrub Hiker understand what I'm saying. Look at the first paragraph in #25 post.

I only took that quote as an example to show that it's not impossible to walk such a long distance in such a short time without walking incredibly quickly. I would never try to compare myself to Andy Skurka at the experience level he is at now. His first backpacking trip, coincidentally, happened to be the appalachian trail I believe, where he took off without consulting anyone for advice, messing up from the start by carrying over 30 pounds and then managing 23 miles a day. And this was in his third year of college, also doing crosscountry. So in terms of that past Andrew, I can make some comparison. Plus, he never trained specifically for the task, which is a leg up that I have in a similar situation.

[booney_1]

Now you say that running is nothing like hiking. Isn't there some truth in saying
that in replacement of long day hikes you can put in some short, high-intensity
runs? One of the later posters said that he's seen even marathoners that can't
handle long day hiking. I really don't know what to make of that. But as for
the use of different muscles used, I totally agree. I've long ago come to terms
with the difference between even trail and road running that will cripple a
road runner if they're not careful to adjust. What muscles and anatomical
development would you suggest on working though? I'm not too knowledgeable
about this since I only road-run.

Do you suppose that working out those specific "trail-muscles" or walking on tread-mills for long periods of time could be a substitute to long day hikes? I might not get the trail experience or the elevation gain/loss, but it seems the closest I can get to preparing around where I live.

As for the hiking techniques, yes, there's always room for improvment, but I don't need to have anything better than skills adequate enough to survive. Like you said, the forums should be of great help. Anyway, a few days, because of a steep learning curve, should be enough to get my bearings. I plan on going on the appalachian trail for a few days soon enough to get in some practice. In your experience, however, does altitude training make a differece? I've been told that walking a few thousand meters up is going to be much more difficult, but the appalchian mountains are ,except for one mountain, never more than 2000m high.

I appreciate that you're able to accept that while it's unrealistic, it's possible with the effort. I think more people could adopt your non-extremist tone between encouraging all unrealistic ventures and disparaging all unusual efforts. You seem very knowledgeable and I'd like to hear more from you.

Being in running shape is certainly better than moving from a couch to hiking. But I'm explaining to you what I've experienced myself and what I've seen from other kids your age. I am not eloquent enough to explain to you to difference beyond what has been said by myself and others on this thread. I challenge you...if trails are too far away. Get up early this Saturday and Sunday. Ask Mom or Dad to drive you 30 miles away and walk back. Without some experience hiking you have no idea what a 10, 20 or 30 mile hike is like. 30 miles is a long way to hike without a pack in good weather on level ground. The older boy scouts who we've taken on section hikes on the AT usually do 10 miles a day. Sometimes that is a challenge. Climbing 2000 feet up in the heat with a pack is HARD. We could have hiked a little longer day, but believe me, 30 miles on the AT would have been almost impossible with their level of fitness. These kids I'm talking about have been your age and athletes. I would encourage you to go do a long hike, but you have no context for speed or distance. When you start you will be hiking about 1.5 mph. So plan accordingly.

Hiking "techniques" are about more than survival. Most of the AT is hardly deep wilderness, there are many road crossings, and IF you can use a map you can "rescue" yourself fairly safely. (although in fog,dark, snow it's easy to get lost) Hiking techniques are about comfort. If you are wet, and all your gear is wet, and your dinner is burnt, and your feet have 3 inch blisters, you may wish you knew more about hiking techniques. I'm not saying this to be discouraging. But anyone who has taken inexperienced backpackers out has seen them climb a steep learning curve.

So my final words of wisdom....get a little experience...everybody on this site is telling you something you should listen to. Go on 20 mile hike this weekend. How long does it take? Could you have carried a 20 pound pack? Could you do it up and down mountains...

[Piragua]

Uhh, he re-aggravates the OVER USE INJURY he mentioned possibly making it and something else worse! He has a history of over doing things and possibly taking on TOO MUCH TOO SOON WITH A LACK OF PREPARATION AND FORETHOUGHT!!!!!!!Read his post! Now you are rah rah go for it cheerleading him towards possibly doing it again? Best thing you said in your post is Good Luck!

I guess he/she took his trail name from his travels in Puerto Rico or is floating along like a canoe without a rudder. He then joins three days ago, goes public with this idea, says he was a runner on an organized cross country sports team, and solicits advice from people whom he doesn't even know asking this question, "Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain? - Piragua", expecting intelligent informed answers. Red flagged! I will not waste my time further. You all do what you want. If I only had $1 every time this or something similar occurred here on WB I would be able to fund my next hike. Maybe some might think I'm a dick for saying this but be real! Snap out of it. Wake up.

Lack of preparation is right. And honeslty, the over use injury is my greatest fear. But that can be overcome. I hope I wasn't wrong though to assume that the best place to look for advice was on the largest appalachian trail forum on the internet.

While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.

[Feral Bill]

Lack of preparation is right. And honeslty, the over use injury is my greatest fear. But that can be overcome. I hope I wasn't wrong though to assume that the best place to look for advice was on the largest appalachian trail forum on the internet.

While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.

The useful advice you have received includes: Get much more experience and get into incredibly good shape. You have public transportation to plenty of good backpacking. Get out there and do some serious miles.

[Lone Wolf]

While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.

a serious attemptor wouldn't be on here lookin' for advice

[rocketsocks]

Piragua, nobody here wants you to fail, but are these the questions you've really come to ask, what are your odds, you already know the answers to that one. Again, go for it dude!

There some real good hiking right in our back yard

Sourland Mt. Preserve, Montgomery

Chimney rock, Bridgewater

either one of these places would be and excellent proving ground for an AT attempt as they have elevation gain and swamps, rocky and rooted foot paths...check em out!034.jpg033.jpg039.jpg