Danger on the AT?

[Sarcasm the elf]

There was a strange sequence of incidents in Fundy National Park a few years ago. Someone had choked on homemade trail mix, another on Cheerios, and then a third one month later on Captain Crunch. The thought it might be the work of a cereal killer.

Well done JAK, well done!

[Son Driven]

The last breath comes to all of us. Over the past 14 months I have come to terms with my own mortality as I moved from one of the safest zip codes to the most dangerous zip code in the Minneapolis area.

[Hairbear]

statisticly you are more likely to be killed by your spouse in your sleep. The evil you fear lurks in the hearts of humanity ,not in the cold steel of guns. Hollywood has done a great job in getting us to fear that which we do not understand.

[TheDuckOnTheJunebug]

I am not sure it's fair to call violent crime random. Crimes are the result of human behavior, and are influenced by all the attendant factors you might expect.

Here in central Virginia, I am cautious on the trail, in part because it does so strongly parallel roads. Also, because of recent crimes. The Blue Ridge Parkway killer was quickly caught. There was the murder down at Cole Mtn, which hasn't been solved, and a couple of kids got shot in the woods near Blacksburg a couple of years back. And no one ever did solve that double killing in SNP way back. Now, those weren't all on the trail, but they were all in heavily traveled areas of our public woods.

Of the crimes I mentioned, the one near Cole Mtn. concerns us most, because it was near the AT and on a trail, not a road. It's worth noting that the cops have said that there's no evidence the murderer is targeting hikers. That's not the same as having evidence he isn't. In that case, as I recall, police said the victim was throttled. If that's the m.o., I don't want a gun, I want a knife I can reach and jab the attacker somewhere tender.

I've been menaced once, (near, but not on the trail, and along a dirt road) but it was, I think, just rednecks having some fun, as opposed to something serious.

[rainmaker]

Amen . The murders and fatal animal attacks on the AT is dwarfed by the lightning strikes, the hypothermia, the illnesses, the frostbite, heat exhaustion , the hunger ect stuff the gun can't fix.

Don't forget those D*** wet bog bridges in Maine.

[HikerMom58]

I am not sure it's fair to call violent crime random. Crimes are the result of human behavior, and are influenced by all the attendant factors you might expect.

Here in central Virginia, I am cautious on the trail, in part because it does so strongly parallel roads. Also, because of recent crimes. The Blue Ridge Parkway killer was quickly caught. There was the murder down at Cole Mtn, which hasn't been solved, and a couple of kids got shot in the woods near Blacksburg a couple of years back. And no one ever did solve that double killing in SNP way back. Now, those weren't all on the trail, but they were all in heavily traveled areas of our public woods.

Of the crimes I mentioned, the one near Cole Mtn. concerns us most, because it was near the AT and on a trail, not a road. It's worth noting that the cops have said that there's no evidence the murderer is targeting hikers. That's not the same as having evidence he isn't. In that case, as I recall, police said the victim was throttled. If that's the m.o., I don't want a gun, I want a knife I can reach and jab the attacker somewhere tender.

I've been menaced once, (near, but not on the trail, and along a dirt road) but it was, I think, just rednecks having some fun, as opposed to something serious.

Central VA has a terrible reputation for a concentrated number of crimes committed here. In 2008, when my daughter was hiking the trail, (she was way north of Daleville) a female thru-hiker was offered a ride to the PO in Daleville but instead of being taken to the PO, she was taken to an abandon warehouse and was sexually assaulted. She was released, thankfully, but badly shaken, of course. That just makes me sooo mad!!

Because of that incident,it gives me extra pleasure when I spot a hiker in Daleville and offer them to help them out, any way I can. I also pass along to hikers any information I have about people on the trail or in the area. No "surprises" is a good thing. I've learned not to share that kind of info. on here.

I will not go on the trail by myself, in my area, to check on shelters, do trail magic or anything else. We haven't been on the trail with any kind of protection, on us, to date, but I'm thinking that might start to change this year. No gun ever- but some kind of protection -YES.

I like what Hairbear said- "The evil you fear lurks in the hearts of humanity". That is soo true. But yet, I love my fellow humans and want to believe in them, not fear them. I have to keep it real, tho.

[SassyWindsor]

If one googles hiker robbed (with no quotes) you'll get many hits, a lot of them or AT related.

[Del Q]

This thread is just sad!

For a place (trail) that we would hope is 100% safe, its just not.

Maybe the incidents are simply more cases of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.......male or female.

I refuse to run scared, be it on the streets of Philadelphia, at home, or on the AT.

There are obvious precautions like trusting your gut feel, don't camp near roads, etc.

[KingGator and Sons]

This saddens me as I prepare for my first ever thru hike. In fact, this is my first ever post. I will be taking my two sons (13,11). Let's just say that I will make sure I am ready to die OR kill if need be now.

[not_possible]

I don't see the big deal about the controversial debate over these worries, whether it's daily life or a thru hike on the AT. Anything can happen anywhere, but a little common sense and awareness goes a long way. I carry concealed pretty much daily and would on my thru if the logistcs were on my side, but I'm not and it doesn't bother me(bothers me more that I'm going for months without any training or shooting)...will take a little getting used to and I'm sure I'll have that nekkid feeling for a few days. I've been told I have trust issues, but I don't assume the best about anyone right off, nor the worst and I'm still polite...just don't get complacent. I worked with a girl that was mugged in broad daylight on her lunch break...she was walking to her car texting, no awareness to her surroundings making her an easy target. A few years ago I was dating a girl that was driving home and a person in the car on her right shot into her car. Bullet went through the rear door, fragmented, and left a mark where the biggest chunk bounced off the back of the front passenger seat headrest. They had passed her then slowed to stay just ahead for a ways before slowing almost to a complete stop at a green stop light so she had a partial plate and description of the car. She sped up to go through the light and they shot while turning right at the light. Her awareness didn't help catch them, but that would be a waay off topic rant(city and county argued over jurisdiction and no one showed til the next morning). Her noticing something odd and speeding up may have prevented the bullet going through the front glass though.

[not_possible]

Why do my paragraphs turn into 1 blob after posting on this forum? It's a bit annoying and I'm sure it is to read as well. Maybe the browser on my phone.

[rickb]

I don't see the big deal about the controversial debate over these worries, whether it's daily life or a thru hike on the AT. Anything can happen anywhere, but a little common sense and awareness goes a long way.

I think you make a great deal of sense.

Awarness does not need to equal fear, and discusion of facts need not equal controversy. A wise motorcyclist accepts that their are some special risks associated with his passion (far greater than those facing a backpacker, of course) then mitigates them to the degree that is reasonably possible-- with a helmet, or defensive riding skills or whatevever. Simple. We should do the same rather than denying the small but very real risks thru hikers face.

There are certain commonalities among the (few) serious crimes perpetraed against thru hikers on the AT. A better use of bandwidth would be to consider them. That woudl be a sophisticated discussion that has never taken place on Whiteblaze. Too emotional.

At a minimum, I would suggest that the AT feels very safe to thruhikers after a short period of time. It becomes our home and we are comfortable there. Perhaps so comfortable we deal with odd-balls at shelters differently than we woudl otherwise. Some of us are also so tollerant of people that are different when traveling we see nothing but good. Its not all good. Some of us are so self reliant and strong (of mind or body) we think we can handle everyone we meet. We can't.

There is a book that is sold by the ATC by Michale Bane called Trail Safe that is worth reading IMHO. Not because it has all the answers, but because it really can get you thinking about the right questions in grey situation, and might actually help lead you do better decision on the Trail. I mean that very sincerely.

Backpacker thought the book had value too-- so much so that they put the entire copy on line. Here it is:

http://www.gorp.com/hiking-guide/tra...ev_056742.html

[Terry7]

6 years and 5000 miles A.T. miles. I have never had any trouble with crime.

[TOW]

I have had a lifelong dream to thru-hike the AT. Maybe 2014, I am totally against bringing a gun during my hike. My 23 yr old son thinks I'm crazy not too. Many of his friends say they know people who have hiked the AT and muggings happen frequently. My question is to anyone who has section hiked or thru-hiked the AT. Have you ever been threatened or mudded on the AT? My son is also worried about animals, any problems with them? I told him that if I was even a little worried about meeting up with some violence I wouldn't attempt the hike. I feel there is more chance of him getting mugged in the city than me being mugged on the AT.

For the three years that I bounced around the trail I only had one incident that scared the Jesus into me and that is when I met Ward "Chip" Leonard right north of Unaka Mountain. And then we ended up being friends for the moment.

There are bad apples where ever you go, you are not escaping anything by taking a walk in the woods if it is suppose to happen to ya. Some don't agree with me on this philosophy but.....

[canoe]

For the three years that I bounced around the trail I only had one incident that scared the Jesus into me and that is when I met Ward "Chip" Leonard right north of Unaka Mountain. And then we ended up being friends for the moment.

There are bad apples where ever you go, you are not escaping anything by taking a walk in the woods if it is suppose to happen to ya. Some don't agree with me on this philosophy but.....

Why did that encounter scare you?

[terryg49]

I have had a lifelong dream to thru-hike the AT. Maybe 2014, I am totally against bringing a gun during my hike. My 23 yr old son thinks I'm crazy not too. Many of his friends say they know people who have hiked the AT and muggings happen frequently. My question is to anyone who has section hiked or thru-hiked the AT. Have you ever been threatened or mudded on the AT? My son is also worried about animals, any problems with them? I told him that if I was even a little worried about meeting up with some violence I wouldn't attempt the hike. I feel there is more chance of him getting mugged in the city than me being mugged on the AT.

I carried a firearm when I first started the AT. I soon learned that you are safer on the trail then just about anywhere. There are no dangerous animals that you need to worry about. That includes bears that everyone seems to feel are going to eat them. If you keep you food hung properly you will have no issues. Plus, why carry the extra weight. Have a great hike.

[MDSection12]

You have a point.

i think common wisdom is that about 20% of those attempting a thru hike complete their journeys and register with the ATC as milers.

If you buy that, then about 1 in 11,000 of all those who attempt a thru hike are murdered by a complete stranger within 6 months of the time they set off on their hikes.

Not sure where you live, but if 1 in 11,000 vibrant and law abiding people living in my town were getting killed every 6 months, I would not be proud of that. Over the course of 20 years that would be 40 victims out of 11,000 or one in 275 people. Yikes!

OK, I wanted to stay out of this, but statistics are kind of a pet peeve for me... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the five murders have been over the entire history of Appalachian Trail hiking, right? Same goes for the 11,000 completed thrus, those were over the course of the entire history of AT hiking, right? So where is this '1 in 11,000 vibrant and law abiding people living in my town were getting killed every 6 months' coming from? In actuality a more appropriate comparison (assuming your math pans out to begin with, which is debatable anyway) would be a town of 55,000 with 5 recorded murders in the past 60 years. I
live in a town of around 60,000 people and we tend to have a murder about every other year, sometimes every year... So technically the hypothetical town you try to paint as so unsafe is much safer than my own hometown... And in fact is safer than most towns.

So now lets consider that your estimate assumed 1 in 5 thru-hiker attempts ends with not only a successful finish but also a report to the ATC. Then add to that the fact that the vast majority of AT users are not attempting thru-hikes. Now I don't have any hard data in front of me to start making bold statements, but in my mind that town of 55,000 is getting much, much larger. Find me a town in the US with a population over 55,000 with fewer than 5 murders in the past sixty years...

[HikerMom58]

I think you make a great deal of sense.

Awarness does not need to equal fear, and discusion of facts need not equal controversy. A wise motorcyclist accepts that their are some special risks associated with his passion (far greater than those facing a backpacker, of course) then mitigates them to the degree that is reasonably possible-- with a helmet, or defensive riding skills or whatevever. Simple. We should do the same rather than denying the small but very real risks thru hikers face.

There are certain commonalities among the (few) serious crimes perpetraed against thru hikers on the AT. A better use of bandwidth would be to consider them. That woudl be a sophisticated discussion that has never taken place on Whiteblaze. Too emotional.

At a minimum, I would suggest that the AT feels very safe to thruhikers after a short period of time. It becomes our home and we are comfortable there. Perhaps so comfortable we deal with odd-balls at shelters differently than we woudl otherwise. Some of us are also so tollerant of people that are different when traveling we see nothing but good. Its not all good. Some of us are so self reliant and strong (of mind or body) we think we can handle everyone we meet. We can't.

There is a book that is sold by the ATC by Michale Bane called Trail Safe that is worth reading IMHO. Not because it has all the answers, but because it really can get you thinking about the right questions in grey situation, and might actually help lead you do better decision on the Trail. I mean that very sincerely.

Backpacker thought the book had value too-- so much so that they put the entire copy on line. Here it is:

http://www.gorp.com/hiking-guide/tra...ev_056742.html

rickb...my hat is off to you!! This is one of the best posts on this thread or on this subject. THANKS! You nailed it! Thanks for the helpful link.. I can't wait to read it.

[canoe]

OK, I wanted to stay out of this, but statistics are kind of a pet peeve for me... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the five murders have been over the entire history of Appalachian Trail hiking, right? Same goes for the 11,000 completed thrus, those were over the course of the entire history of AT hiking, right? So where is this '1 in 11,000 vibrant and law abiding people living in my town were getting killed every 6 months' coming from? In actuality a more appropriate comparison (assuming your math pans out to begin with, which is debatable anyway) would be a town of 55,000 with 5 recorded murders in the past 60 years. I
live in a town of around 60,000 people and we tend to have a murder about every other year, sometimes every year... So technically the hypothetical town you try to paint as so unsafe is much safer than my own hometown... And in fact is safer than most towns.

So now lets consider that your estimate assumed 1 in 5 thru-hiker attempts ends with not only a successful finish but also a report to the ATC. Then add to that the fact that the vast majority of AT users are not attempting thru-hikes. Now I don't have any hard data in front of me to start making bold statements, but in my mind that town of 55,000 is getting much, much larger. Find me a town in the US with a population over 55,000 with fewer than 5 murders in the past sixty years...

Thats exactly what I was thinking

[WingedMonkey]

OK, I wanted to stay out of this, but statistics are kind of a pet peeve for me... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the five murders have been over the entire history of Appalachian Trail hiking, right? Same goes for the 11,000 completed thrus, those were over the course of the entire history of AT hiking, right? So where is this '1 in 11,000 vibrant and law abiding people living in my town were getting killed every 6 months' coming from? In actuality a more appropriate comparison (assuming your math pans out to begin with, which is debatable anyway) would be a town of 55,000 with 5 recorded murders in the past 60 years. I
live in a town of around 60,000 people and we tend to have a murder about every other year, sometimes every year... So technically the hypothetical town you try to paint as so unsafe is much safer than my own hometown... And in fact is safer than most towns.

So now lets consider that your estimate assumed 1 in 5 thru-hiker attempts ends with not only a successful finish but also a report to the ATC. Then add to that the fact that the vast majority of AT users are not attempting thru-hikes. Now I don't have any hard data in front of me to start making bold statements, but in my mind that town of 55,000 is getting much, much larger. Find me a town in the US with a population over 55,000 with fewer than 5 murders in the past sixty years...

So much better than "fuzzy math".