Whats the big deal about the Smokies permit?

[Slo-go'en]

The "no show" is a serious problem. A few years ago I started a trip at New Found gap. When I got to Gatlinburg, I stopped at the backcountry office for my permits and they were barely able to squeezed me into a couple of shelters. Sorry, Icewater springs is full, there is one spot left at Pecks and two at Cosby knob. But when I get to these places they were almost empty. The weather had turned rainy.

Even with the new fees, I doubt it will help with the no show problem. That's the thing which most concerns me. It's not apparent that a thru-hiker can get a permit if the system thinks the shelters are full.

Anyway, I can understand why they want a system like this. For one, it makes it self serve for the most part so they don't have to deal with the permit thing. Second, they are trying to manage a limited resource (space in shelter) which has high demand. You really don't want to show up at a shelter site and have 80 other people there do you? That could happen if it was a free for all.

All in all, it is a pain and just one more issue to deal with which we'd rather not. This is more then just passing interest to me, I plan on hiking through there again this spring and will have to deal with it one way or another. Last time I just put a blank permit on my pack. I was hoping someone would ask to see it, but no one did.

[max patch]

It's not apparent that a thru-hiker can get a permit if the system thinks the shelters are full.

Thats not an issue.

[Christine_Runs]

I think it is possible to book a 21 day trip. I also would say that if one is way back in the backcountry that usually one will find space if one gets behind. That being said, I also agree with the sentiment that the idea of having to pre-organize the itinerary sucks. In Canadian parks one has to do this and I would much prefer to not have to pre-select sites but since I have to I do it. Sometimes this makes is more intersting to go to an unmaintained park where reservations are not required!

[flemdawg1]

As far as rangers/rige runners issueing tickets to those who are off schedule, I'd say don't worry about it. Last June my wife and I attempted the AT traverse DG-FD. She started having knee problems on day 3, and we had to slow down significantly. We met a a pair of ridge runners on Day 6 near Rocky Top. They were completely unconcerned about it. So don't stress, like so many things that pop up here, its a non-issue.

[Mr. Bumpy]

It's an impossible system. Suppose I want to pull a 21 day backpacking trip thru the Park. First, I have to make 3 separate 7 day reservations---that's $30. Then I have to pay $20 for each 7 day segment---that's $60. So, even before leaving I'm out $90. THEN I have to somehow come up with a coherent 21 day trail route with all the appropriate campsites picked beforehand. This is impossible. Suppose I just want to sit put for a couple days but don't know where beforehand at home when planning the trip? Not to mention blizzards or high water or trail illness like the squirts, etc. Where will I be on Day 15? No one knows.

Check plus. Sometimes I don't even know where I will be on night three.

I get anywhere from 15-30 bag nights a year with about half of them being in the park. On a typical 3-7 day trip only one or two of my nights would be at a reserved spot or shelter, typically the first or last night depending where I parked my car. I don't want the hassle of planning out even a short trip--I just want the freedom to go--or not to go. Sure, there is a seasonal problem with overcrowding on the AT and a handful of other sites off the AT, for the most of the backcountry sites there wasn't, so why fix something that wasn't really broken.

So for me, my patronage of the GSMNP will decline which sucks, I enjoy the park, but I'll spend more time learning the trails of Joyce Kilmer/ Slickrock or some other national forest destination which is cool.

[Tipi Walter]

Check plus. Sometimes I don't even know where I will be on night three.

I get anywhere from 15-30 bag nights a year with about half of them being in the park. On a typical 3-7 day trip only one or two of my nights would be at a reserved spot or shelter, typically the first or last night depending where I parked my car. I don't want the hassle of planning out even a short trip--I just want the freedom to go--or not to go. Sure, there is a seasonal problem with overcrowding on the AT and a handful of other sites off the AT, for the most of the backcountry sites there wasn't, so why fix something that wasn't really broken.

So for me, my patronage of the GSMNP will decline which sucks, I enjoy the park, but I'll spend more time learning the trails of Joyce Kilmer/ Slickrock or some other national forest destination which is cool.

And don't forget Bald River and Upper Bald or Mt Rogers or Dolly Sods or the Big Frog/Cohuttas---and most of the AT and the BMT and the Pinhoti where permits are not needed and campsites are wherever you find them.

[Darwin13]

I suppose you won't mind me helping myself to a Snickers out of your food bag then. A Snickers is just reorganized matter from the Earth after all.

yea you got a snickers on me.

[Chicken Feathers]

fees start in February Thru hikers pay $20.00 no refunds