Etiquette for hanging food in shelters (Split from another shelter question)

[Pedaling Fool]

Hanging food in a shelter does not attract mice. Eating at a shelter does attract mice; and I don't mean eating in a shelter, just eating at the picnic table is what attracts the mice.

Also, the shelter itself attracts them, because it's shelter; in the same way coral reef (or man-made reef) attracts many organisms as opposed to barren sandy bottom, because it provides shelter.

If you notice food hung in shelters isn't stolen by mice, provided one uses a mouse guard and doesn't place a bag against a beam. However, leave some food in your pack and I guarantee it'll be gone in the morning.

[Drybones]

I hate walking into a bar with a brawl going on and not being able to decide which side I throw the chair at...and run.

[Slo-go'en]

one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

Unattended food at a shelter is abandoned food which is not good, but happens. Usually its 5 pound bags of rice or oatmeal packets. Even the rodents leave that stuff alone which tells you something...

Other wise, there is always enough people around a shelter to scare or beat off the critters - except the little ones which are annoying, but not very dangerous.

Really, how many of those making a fuss have actually spent much (or any) time at shelters? And please, don't play cop out in the woods for minor moral offenses.

[Tharwood]

You could have stored it in the basement...hahahahahahahah..

[Tharwood]

That's at Hikermom about Walnut Mtn shelter...

[BirdBrain]

I consider Whiteblaze as one of the best sources for practical information on hiking the AT. I am amazed at the way this debate is going. Prior to seeing this thread, I would have thought it would be the norm to hang a bear bag. I am left with two possible conclusions: 1) The "experts" are wrong. 2) AT hikers could give a rats ass about bear bag etiquette.

Please understand: I am not an authority. I am not here to claim I know anything. I am here to learn. I just feel like someone just proved that the moon is really made of cheese. Nothing I am reading here makes sense. I am no fool though. I must give deference to those with more experience.

[Pedaling Fool]

I consider Whiteblaze as one of the best sources for practical information on hiking the AT. I am amazed at the way this debate is going. Prior to seeing this thread, I would have thought it would be the norm to hang a bear bag. I am left with two possible conclusions: 1) The "experts" are wrong. 2) AT hikers could give a rats ass about bear bag etiquette.

Please understand: I am not an authority. I am not here to claim I know anything. I am here to learn. I just feel like someone just proved that the moon is really made of cheese. Nothing I am reading here makes sense. I am no fool though. I must give deference to those with more experience.

Believe it or not, but your food is safer hung in a shelter than in a tree. Far more food is stolen from a tree then in a shelter.

[Drybones]

Believe it or not, but your food is safer hung in a shelter than in a tree. Far more food is stolen from a tree then in a shelter.

I can believe that, hung my food the first night, in a tree, the bag was on the ground in the morning and the mice had a feast, slept with it every night thereafter.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I consider Whiteblaze as one of the best sources for practical information on hiking the AT. I am amazed at the way this debate is going. Prior to seeing this thread, I would have thought it would be the norm to hang a bear bag. I am left with two possible conclusions: 1) The "experts" are wrong. 2) AT hikers could give a rats ass about bear bag etiquette.Please understand: I am not an authority. I am not here to claim I know anything. I am here to learn. I just feel like someone just proved that the moon is really made of cheese. Nothing I am reading here makes sense. I am no fool though. I must give deference to those with more experience.

Both of you conclusions are partially correct. The traditional bear safety advice that is taught in scouts and other organizations is usually based on precautions necessary in Grizzley bear country. On the east coast we only have black bears which are quite different in size and behavior. Since Blackbears are almost always scared of humans, the issue is more about unattended food left where animals can easily grab it than it is about your attended food attracting bears to you. Given that most folks can't hang a bear bag correctly anyway, theyre probably not much more effective then the mouse hangers.

Then again, here in the northeast most shelters have bearboxes, so this is all a non-issue.

[BirdBrain]

Believe it or not, but your food is safer hung in a shelter than in a tree. Far more food is stolen from a tree then in a shelter.

Safer or more secure. I will concede that there are less variables in hanging a bag in a shelter and it is easier to do so, but safer? It is harder to secure a bear bag outside, but if done properly, it is safer.

At the risk of being beat up like Mr Coffee (or whatever his name is) this debate appears to be between lazy people and people interested in etiquette. If I hold a door open for someone who has their arms full, it is not because I am afraid of that person. There is no healthy animal on the east coast that I am afraid of. They have reason to be scared of us though. If I hang a bear bag, it will be out of respect for others and it is a safe way to do so. I am not scared of a mouse or bear or raccoon, etc.

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.

[Moose2001]

i have zero tolerence for stupidity

REALLY! Then don't look in the mirror!

[max patch]

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.

I'm not gonna beat you up, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that here in GA bears get a whole lotta more food bags out of trees than they do from shelters (probably none).

I don't care what Mr Coffee does with his food. The issue with Mr Coffee is that he has said there is "no way" anybody will hang food in a shelter if he is sleeping in it. And if someone does he will move it.

[atmilkman]

I'm not gonna beat you up, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that here in GA bears get a whole lotta more food bags out of trees than they do from shelters (probably none).

I don't care what Mr Coffee does with his food. The issue with Mr Coffee is that he has said there is "no way" anybody will hang food in a shelter if he is sleeping in it. And if someone does he will move it.

Pretty much what I got out of the original post. Don't know where everything else came from after that. Correction - yes I do.

[ChinMusic]

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.

Sure it is safer at the shelter. Not as safe as mine, right next to me in my tent. It is all about possession.

That food on my back is in my possession.
That food in my tent is def in my possession.
That food in the tree is a jump ball, if bear can get to it, it will (often they can).
That food hung in the shelter has strong possession characteristics and most bears will not bother it..........most.

[HikerMom58]

Hiker Mom, grief from me means I stop being polite very quickly, and if what is being done is illegal I have no problem calling the authorities.

I am not talking about people being annoying, I am talking about much more serious kinds of things. For example if a couple decided it was a good idea to have sex in front of other people in the shelter, that's inappropriate (Sad, but I have seen it happen), if I am by myself, I leave. If kids are present, I do something. Other examples include selling or trying to sell drugs, continuously inappropriate language in front of the kids, and significant racist or discriminatory behaviour. You get the idea, I have a rather low tolerance for that kind of stuff around children. This is not just while hiking by the way. its everywhere else too. The way I see it is, if you wouldn't put up with it in public in your neighborhood, why would you on the trail?

The good news is the vast majority of hikers are good people and are just as protective of kids as I am, so it is a rare situation where any intervention is required on my part.

Some things in life require you to make a stand, and when they happen, its not about going along to get along, it about doing the right thing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I agree with everything you said... I would do the same thing. I thought that's what u meant. There's that extreme behavior- & everything in between.

We were staying at James Fry Shelter in PA. A couple showed up and tented near us. They were newbies, fresh on the trail. She was talking on her cell phone wayyy past the "considerate" time of evening. She was talking REALLY loud. We could hear every single word on her conversation.

But just like HB said, on here, that behavior would become a REALLY big deal to some.
In reality, while we all found it annoying, it was just considered as part of the trail experience on the "busy" AT.

It's a crap shoot as to how someone could have handled that situation but treating her respectfully was never in question. We thought about "speaking the truth", in love, the next morning, but we felt she would have felt really bad, after she realized she didn't have proper "shelter etiquette".

It's not nearly as bad, in reality, as we seem to think it is, talking about this stuff on here. It's a give and take, all the time.

You are right about needing to take a stand on certain behavior. It's best even, in that situation, to remain calm but it's hard when people seem so inconsiderate. I have a tolerance level that seems to "peak" in certain situations. When that happens, I have to "fight", myself, to stay in control of myself. I feel so much better when I do remain in control but that's different than going along to get along.

[JAK]

The shelter mice lurking on this thread are having a great laugh at all of us.

[Hosaphone]

Safer or more secure. I will concede that there are less variables in hanging a bag in a shelter and it is easier to do so, but safer? It is harder to secure a bear bag outside, but if done properly, it is safer.

...

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.

Sure it is safer at the shelter. Not as safe as mine, right next to me in my tent. It is all about possession.

That food on my back is in my possession.
That food in my tent is def in my possession.
That food in the tree is a jump ball, if bear can get to it, it will (often they can).
That food hung in the shelter has strong possession characteristics and most bears will not bother it..........most.

I guess this depends on whether we're talking about the safety of the food, or personal safety (ie avoiding getting mauled by a hungry bear).

Sleeping with your food is basically like telling the bear, "You want it? You're gonna have to fight me for it."

Given the behavior of black bears, that's usually a pretty effective strategy. It makes your food safer, but certainly increases your chances of having a bad encounter as opposed to hanging it in a tree far away.

Odorproof bags (Opsak, etc) are always a good idea either way.

[Train Wreck]

If Mr. Coffee is going to prance off into the woods with my food bag, I respectfully ask that he pack out my trash also.

[HikerMom58]

The shelter mice lurking on this thread are having a great laugh at all of us.

I think there's more than lurking shelter mice that are having a great laugh. .....

[rickb]

Anyone ever get any grief about cooking and eating on the shelter floor -- aka kitchen prep area?