Firefly wood stove (2.7oz) - totally badass

[Hairbear]

I am always pleased when folks like their FireFly. Thanks for the positive feedback.

I had always lit my wood stoves from the bottom, taking advantage of the chimney effect of air flow though the stove. Then I kept hearing about the advantages of top lighting. Zelph is rightly a big proponent of this. His advice and others' (yes, you, Medicineman) made me try it and it can work well with less smoke, and if you load the stove up well, you can bring 3 cups of water to a boil on one load of twigs, even with a relatively small UL stove like the FireFly. The video included a couple posts higher (post from Hoseaphone) shows this technique.

But for you bottom lighting fans, here's a video I made very early on, right after I switched to 1/4" stainless steel mesh for the standard floor.


You can see that it is smokier, but works just fine and gets a hot fire going quickly if you use your tinder to get a loose mass of twigs lit, then feed the fire with more twigs as it gets going. This IMO is the best bottom lighting technique. If you want to pack the stove with twigs and hope to cook with just one load, you are better off using a top lighting technique. If your wood is damp or of poor quality, a bottom lighting technique might be the best approach, though you will get lots of smoke in the first part of the burn as the fire gets going.

So what do I do now with my own FireFly? Most of the time for a dinner, I use top down lighting with an open FlexPort that lets me feed longer twigs into the fire to keep it burning. In the morning, I usually just make quick fire with the Port closed to heat up water for coffee and hot cereal. I'll use top lighting if my twigs are dry and bottom lighting if they are not. So there you have it!

merry xmas you just got some of my money, im adding it to my cook kit.

[magic_game03]

Great responses Hosaphone, looks like you've got a plan. I've got three questions.

First, you said you have a tarp for personal shelter. Have you tried setting it up and getting the fire started on a very windy wet day? Notice I didn't say cold, because you will still have wet windy days throughout the year on the AT beyond the cold season.

Second, Do you use a wind screen?

Third, What is your entire set up and how much does it weigh? You also say that you can use a firesteel and alcohol, are you carrying all this other equipment for back up?

The video (from Qi wiz) also shows a cotton ball used as a primer, how are you priming?


I'm not completely sold but it's good to see you have rationalized these issues Hosaphone. I agree with you Muddywaters, you will never learn and understand if you don't do some trial and error testing. Heck, my first hike was a true learning experience. I started with white gas, moved to alcohol, supplemented with ground fires, then was given a snow peak (always thankful to jeepman and catfish outta GA) with fuel in Gorham NH, and finished my trip with it. I've been a sucker for butane ever since. Here's the video that I'd really like to see, one that represents a real hike scenario. Start a timer so that the viewer can see it. Pick up your twigs, set the stove up from scratch, get your fire started, get the water on and cook a lipton meal. When the lipton meal is finished, show us the results and the timer. Then do it again in wet, windy, or wet-windy weather with a timer under a tarp like you would have to do in the woods. Then I will be a believer. Unfortunately, the videos that Qi Wiz is showing is only on perfect days when a lot of hikers don't cook as much.

[Hosaphone]

First, you said you have a tarp for personal shelter. Have you tried setting it up and getting the fire started on a very windy wet day? Notice I didn't say cold, because you will still have wet windy days throughout the year on the AT beyond the cold season.

With a tarp, site selection is important. In New England and I'm sure on most of the AT, you can usually find sites that are fairly sheltered from wind thanks to all the trees we have. Also, a tarp can be pitched in many different ways. For instance, a lean-to or a half-pyramid pitch will block the wind much better than an A-frame.

Second, Do you use a wind screen?

No wind screen here. With wood since you have unlimited fuel, efficiency is not much of an issue. In very dry and windy conditions you need to be careful of not starting a forest fire. With alcohol you can use it in a more sheltered spot (right inside tarp or shelter, etc) so wind screen is not as necessary.

If I was doing a lot of above treeline camping, theoretically, I'd probably need a wind screen and mostly use alcohol, or switch to a canister stove.

Third, What is your entire set up and how much does it weigh? You also say that you can use a firesteel and alcohol, are you carrying all this other equipment for back up?

I don't actually carry a firesteel, just giving an example of what's possible if your firestarting skills are good.

My cook kit weighs around 8oz for pot, wood stove, alcohol stove, reflectix cozy, piece of towel for cleaning/drying, and freezer bag for tinder collecting. I've been doing research on the beer can pots, and they seem very viable so hopefully I'll be able to drop that down to 6oz for everything.

Figure a 1/2oz for a small bottle + 2oz of alcohol, you're at 8.5oz with enough backup alcohol for 4 dinners. Not too shabby.

You can also plan ahead a bit with the food you carry. For instance, you expect a lot of rain and expect you won't feel like dealing with making a fire, you can always bring a couple dinners that could be eaten cold if need be. Many people go completely stove-less anyways for the simplicity and weight savings.

The video (from Qi wiz) also shows a cotton ball used as a primer, how are you priming?

I've been interested in bushcraft and firestarting my whole life. There are many ways to do it - for the sake of making it look easy in the videos, QiWiz tends to use a pretty fail-proof method of a cotton ball soaked in vaseline.

There are lots of different natural tinders you can find in the woods - birch bark is preferred and found pretty much everywhere on the east coast. Dried grass or leaves are ok if it's really dry. A few species of evergreen tree have a thin, papery bark which is often dry even when it's been raining for a long time because they have dense branches and foliage that keeps the inside of the tree dry (of course you want to be careful not to harm a living tree).

If you can't find anything readily available, my favorite way to get tinder is to find any random stick/branch of about 1 or 2 inch diameter and make wood shavings. Even after a week of rain, most wood is only superficially wet, and after scraping away the bark and some of the outer wood, you'll be able to get dry shavings from the inside. Worst case scenario you can split a piece of wood to get to the dry stuff inside.

This video demonstrates several methods of splitting wood with a knife and getting tinder, kindling and dry fuel all from one piece of wood. Very handy to be able to do this because it means no matter how wet it is, you can always get a fire going even if there is no dry wood readily available.

Really, when you're using a wood stove like this, pretty much all you need to do is make some shavings (skip to 6:30 in the video). You can light shavings directly with a lighter. It's good to know how to make scrapings, but really not necessary unless you're using a firesteel, bow drill or some other less practical method of firestarting:

I'm not completely sold

I'm not trying to sell you I don't think a wood stove makes sense for most people except in a few very specific situations. Even in the best of conditions a wood stove won't compare to butane if speed is an important factor to you. A lot of people say, "20 minutes saved means I can hike for 20 more minutes before stopping!" I find I am not one of those people yet and I like to relax for a little bit before going to bed. I can't say whether that will change if/when I thru hike.

Bringing some alcohol and an alcohol stove for backup solves a lot of problems, but once you start doing that it starts to be "better" to simply rely on alcohol.

I like the hybrid wood/alcohol setup for a few reasons:

1) Gives me an excuse to have a mini-campfire if I feel like it
2) Carry less fuel than I would with a purely alcohol system, feel more self sufficient
3) Ability to cook things like non-dehydrated rice, beans, etc without worrying about how much fuel it takes
4) Theoretically, on a thru-hike it might be nice to not have to worry about finding fuel when resupplying

[Hosaphone]

With alcohol you can use it in a more sheltered spot (right inside tarp or shelter, etc) so wind screen is not as necessary.

Still need to be careful of fumes of course, but it's not quite the same as a wood fire...

[Hosaphone]

One more thing... You can carry a gallon ziplock bag and if you expect rain or it has been raining for a while, you can pick up good twigs/tinder as you walk along or during breaks, etc. Put stuff in the bag to keep it dry and then you don't have to scramble around trying to find dry stuff when you want to be cooking. If you have dry tinder and a couple dry twigs to get a decent flame going, you can then add damp ones and it won't matter as much.

Rationed carefully, a couple good pieces of dry birch bark and a handful of dry twigs could start several fires when everything else is wet

[QiWiz]

One more thing... You can carry a gallon ziplock bag and if you expect rain or it has been raining for a while, you can pick up good twigs/tinder as you walk along or during breaks, etc. Put stuff in the bag to keep it dry and then you don't have to scramble around trying to find dry stuff when you want to be cooking. If you have dry tinder and a couple dry twigs to get a decent flame going, you can then add damp ones and it won't matter as much.

This is a good idea, and one that I use as well. Once in camp, I usually collect enough twigs in a few minutes for both dinner and breakfast. The ones I don't burn for dinner, I keep under my tarp in case of an unexpected (or expected) rain. In the morning, I can get things going without any trouble from falling water. ; )

Some more responses to posts and statements . . .

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Any reason QiWiz doesn't design the stove so the pot supports are higher????
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The FireFly was originally designed with the goal of being the lightest possible right-sized wood burning backpacking stove, primarily for solo cookers. Most people do not use pots that require higher pot supports, but some do. I did not want to add unnecessary weight to the basic stove configuration that most will be happy with. For the folks that need or want more pot height, there are my UL “large pot supports”, originally made from steel but now from titanium, which add an additional 1.5” of headroom above the firebox with a minimum weight penalty.

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Are these stoves handmade or are they lazer cut cnc?
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The FireFly is currently cut by hand. For a number of reasons, I have been investigating the possibility of having a NE Ohio shop start to cut titanium for me. I am anticipating a laser-cut version will be available as soon as the end of January, in time for the first anniversary of the stove’s production. Happy Birthday FireFly!

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I watched the film and who ever geewiz is, it took him 17 minutes to get some bubbles on the bottom of his pot (and he already had the twigs ready).
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You might want to watch the video again. It demonstrates bringing 3 cups of water to a rolling boil in about 8 minutes from the time the pot is put on the stove, using one load of wood, then continuing to heat/simmer the water for another 9 minutes without adding more wood, such that there are still some small bubbles at the 17 minute mark. Just sayin’ you probably did not watch the video very carefully.



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What if you're hiking and you just want a cup of tea, do you really expect to go through all that to get some hot tea. What if you want tea on top of a summit and there are no trees around, do you now have to pack in twigs?
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Personally, my main reason for using a wood burning stove is to save on fuel weight. But I do typically bring an Esbit cube or two in case I want a quick cuppa and don’t want to get a fire going. If I am going to be above tree line or in a fire ban area for most or all of a trek, I bring an alcohol or Esbit stove rather than my FireFly. If I am going to be occasionally above tree line, I’ll bring the FireFly with enough Esbit for the cooking I need to do in those locations.

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I've used little fires my first thru hike and it seemed to get soot everywhere, am I to believe that soot is no issue? Where ever you put your pot it's going to rub off and eventually get on other things, yes?
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You will get soot on your pot, no question about that. You won’t want to just put a sooty pot in your pack, correct. Some folks use a plastic bag, or a stuff sack devoted to the pot to keep the soot away from other items. Like Hosaphone, I like to use a Reflectix cozy for my pot so that I can eat out of it at a leisurely pace without my food getting cold. The cozy also serves as something that contains the soot while carrying the pot in my pack.

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show us a video of how long it takes to boil in the rain? or after a big rain when everything is wet? or on a very windy day, like it often can be at, above 3,000ft? And tell us where you expect to start this fire (shelter/tent)? What happens if you need to boil something for a while, can you show us the video of you cooking a meal (and not ramen)
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I use my iPhone on a mini-tripod to make my videos, so I'm not going to make them in the rain. I guess you will have to take my word for it that I use my FireFly in bad as well as good conditions. I find that my fire skills (picking fuel, preparing fuel, starting fire, maintaining fire) keep improving the more I practice them. The worst the weather has been, the wetter the wood, the more that fuel picking and prep make a difference. I would recommend that if/as you are trying this out, you have Esbit or alcohol as a backup in case of difficulty or preference for a particular meal.
Wind actually feeds a fire, so not much of a problem most of the time. In very windy conditions, you may want to seek out a more sheltered spot (like the downwind side of your tent or tarp).
At a shelter, I would always situate myself so that any smoke is carried away from other hikers. If unable to do this, I would use my backup fuel (alcohol or Esbit).
Cooking for longer periods of time is made easier by a wood stove, because you do not have to worry about how much free twig fuel you are using. It opens up the possibility of dry baking, long simmers, etc. On the FireFly, getting the FlexPort or FuelPort option makes this easier, but it can be done with regular twig feeding even without a Port. On my accessories page, you can catch a video of cornbread baked on a FireFly. I do dry baking now almost every time I go out on trail. What a treat!

I guess the bottom line is that a wood burning backpacking stove is not for all people and all places, but is perfect for many places and people. You have to decide what is going to work best for your own happiness, safety, and comfort on trail. HYOH

[Hosaphone]

Wind actually feeds a fire, so not much of a problem most of the time.

Even a slight breeze does make it very hard to use a lighter, especially if your tinder is not particularly dry. Not really a big issue, though.

[magic_game03]

Qi Wiz, good responses. I think you answered some very important questions that I had lingering. I was wrong (as I often am) about your time, so let me sincerely apologize for mis representing your video. At the point you come to a boil (about 7:35 into the video) you are very brief about the success of boiling water. If you look away from the video for a few seconds you'd miss the boil. You might want to stretch that part out a bit in the next video (if there is one). If you get someone like me who is starting to loose attention at 7 1/2 mins into an 8 1/2 minute video about how well the firefly works you may loose some customers.

I understand you are on phone camera but I, or others, might feel like your hiding a vulnerability if we can't see it in action in adverse conditions.

Else, great job on this piece of equipment and thanks for being resilient to my comments. All equipment must stand up to harsh criticism and even harsher field scrutiny to become something worth being owned by thru-hikers.

[Hosaphone]

I understand you are on phone camera but I, or others, might feel like your hiding a vulnerability if we can't see it in action in adverse conditions.

Under bad conditions a lot depends on what kind of wood you're working with, and that won't really show up in a video. Maybe a video of walking down a trail and showing how to select good wood would be more useful. It would be pretty unexciting to watch a video of someone having no trouble at all because they were able to find good wood.

Somebody once said, "What's the secret to building fires? Cheat." Do everything in your power to make it easier. Stockpile dry stuff in a ziplock before the weather gets bad, use man-made tinder, poor a tiny bit of alcohol on the wood to help it get going, etc.

If you absolutely can't find good materials, things get interesting and it comes down more to your firestarting skills. When you start needing to split bigger pieces of wood to get tinder and "make" your own "twigs", you're probably better off just using your backup alcohol. Then again, in the video I linked about the "one stick fire", the guy goes from piece of wood -> fire in 6 minutes (albeit in good conditions). I guess a lot of it comes down to how good you are and what kind of wood you have.

[Hosaphone]

poor a tiny bit of alcohol

Pour*

[Smile]

Do you make these stoves and sell them? Are they made in the USA, liked the video and review

[QiWiz]

Do you make these stoves and sell them? Are they made in the USA, liked the video and review

Yes, I make them.
Yes, I sell them.
Yes, they are made in USA.

and much much more info about my gear is at www.QiWiz.net

[zelph]

Wood Stoves: Single vs Double Wall

11-02-2012, 21:17

Hosaphone
Quote:

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Originally Posted by zelph
What have you decided to purchase?

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It's hard to make a decision without ever seeing any of the stoves in person, and so much of a stove's performance is going to depend on the wood and skill of the user. With alcohol and canister stoves you can get concrete information about them and usability is going to be the same for everyone - not so for wood stoves. Youtube videos don't do too much good either because who knows what wood/tinder they are using. There's also the fact that wood stoves are a bit of a niche for backpackers so there isn't as much information to draw from.

Above I wrote that in poor conditions you'll probably want to just use alcohol or esbit backup regardless of what stove you have... I'm still not sure how this will all work out for me in practice, but in theory I think I would rather not plan to rely on a backup. A big draw of wood stoves for me is not needing to even think about fuel. I think I'll just try to always bring a meal or two that can be eaten uncooked if I'm feeling too lazy to make a fire. I think using a tarp instead of a tent will work out well here because I'll be able to prepare wood and cook while staying out of the rain. If you can get out of direct rain, you can start a fire under any conditions with wet wood, just a question of how much preparation and if you need to resort to the 1 stick fire drill. This will give me an excuse to carry a real knife!


I ended up buying a BushBuddy. I was attracted to the simplicity of setup/take down/storage, ease of moving it around, and it also appears that it might be easier to run in poor conditions. Basically, I just find gasifiers to be way more sexy Almost every video I watched of a BushBuddy-type stove made me go, "that looks awesome, I want one". Every video I saw of an Emberlit-type stove left me with the impression of it basically just being a "campfire in a box". That's certainly easier to deal with and more efficient than a campfire on the ground, but I just wasn't wowed the same way I was by the double walled stoves. I don't know if woodgas stoves of this size are actually any better in practice, but I suppose I'll find out for myself soon. I know there are a lot of happy users of both types of stove.

On the other hand I think the open bottom of the FireFly must make it a joy to light... Just toss some wood shavings in the bottom, build everything on top of that, pick it up and hold a lighter underneath. To light the BushBuddy I'll probably need to slowly build a fire inside it. I've seen videos where people light it from the top but I'm pretty sure that will only work if you have good tinder available and dry twigs.

....So those are my thoughts.

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Since November 2nd you have purchased the Firefly. Did you really give the Bushbuddy a fair chance?

[Hosaphone]

Since November 2nd you have purchased the Firefly. Did you really give the Bushbuddy a fair chance?

Perhaps not. I like the BushBuddy, but there is 1 thing for me that kills it... Weight. When I was doing research on stoves I looked at it and figured, "heck, that's only 2oz more than the FireFly, big deal?" But that's not the whole story. I wasn't looking at it in the context of the whole system.

Basically a BushBuddy setup gives you 9 "non-negotiable" ounces. The stove alone weighs ~5oz. If you want to keep it protected, you also need to use it with a pot of certain dimensions which will weigh at least ~4oz. Stove+pot brings you to 9oz. If you want alcohol for backup, add another ~1.5oz for reflectix cozy, empty fuel bottle weight (don't need a companion stove, just dump alcohol right in the bottom). I'm also carrying a 2oz fixed blade mora, when I could get by with a sub-1oz victorinox or razor blade if I was using alcohol.

I just have a hard time justifying that to myself when a SUL alcohol setup can get down to 2-3oz, or a caldera cone setup can be around 5oz for everything with an 850ml pot. I could carry a caldera cone and razor blade knife, and have room to carry 10 or more days worth of fuel before reaching the weight of a bushbuddy setup. With a ti-tri I could also still cook with wood in nice weather if I felt like it, although soot is a bigger issue with the ti-tri than it is with the BushBuddy or FireFly.


A firefly only gives you 2.5-3 "non-negotiable ounces". The rest of the system can be super ultralight or not, depending on what you want. With the BB, no matter how you slice it you're gonna be carrying 9 ounces at the bare minimum. When you add in alcohol backup and a heavy reflectix cozy, it's just too much IMO.

[Hosaphone]

Gear Head Hosa

It's true... My weekends are often busier than I would like, so I guess I live vicariously through trail journals and obsess about things like this too much. Can't help it

[zelph]

It's true... My weekends are often busier than I would like, so I guess I live vicariously through trail journals and obsess about things like this too much. Can't help it

As long as you're happy we hike our own hikes.

Hey, I received my Magic-Flame folding wood burner this past week.....call me tickled pink It's not for backpacking. It's a stove that I will test to the max, push it to it's limits The stove is a jewel. You should see how easy it to open up and close.

[Hosaphone]

I was thinking...

Part of the reason I'm a bit shy of the Foster's pots is that I imagine they are pretty inefficient due to small amount of surface area on the bottom of the pot. I guess this is somewhat mitigated by thin aluminum.

But anyways my thought was, if the Foster's pot is narrow enough to fit inside the FireFly, why not just put it on top of a fancy feast stove inside the firefly? Rather than putting the pot on top where only the bottom of it is exposed to the flame, having half of the pot inside might gain some of the same benefits the caldera cones enjoy where more of the pot is exposed to the heat. This might dramatically improve efficiency with alcohol because much more of the pot is "enclosed" and exposed to the heat. And you avoid needing to carry a separate wind screen or alcohol burner support.

I will need to test...

[Hosaphone]

Part of the reason I'm a bit shy of the Foster's pots is that I imagine they are pretty inefficient

(this wouldn't matter when using wood, but when using alcohol it could negate the ~2oz you save by going from titanium pot -> aluminum can)

[Miguelon]

I skimmed the prior posts. What I have is an Emberlit Fire Ant Titanium Wood Stove/windscreen/alcohol stove stand. It weighs 84 grams/2.96oz. My idea is to carry it and an alcohol stove. (Not sure if I'm going to carry 4 or 8 oz.) My firestarters are cotton balls cut in two. Carried around in a 20cc bottle, soaked in 91%rubbing alcohol. (Medical and fire use.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sqSLCWA5zA

[Miguelon]

carry 4 or 8 oz of ethanol fuel...