Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 144
  1. #121

    Default

    I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.

  2. #122
    GSMNP 900 Miler HooKooDooKu's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    51
    Posts
    3,793
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.
    If you have to have the Bic lighter on for a minute to light a fire... then you're doing it wrong.
    After all, no match burns of 60 seconds (well maybe fire place matches if you try... but most hikers aren't taking those in the woods to start a fire either).

  3. #123
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-01-2014
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.
    Your bic lighter doesn't burn hot enough or long enough (without getting hot, as you noted) to be an effective fire started. It is only ever an ignition source with which you then lighter your fire starter with. Fire starting needs to be long burning with as hot a flame is you can get. Good fire starters include everything from fat wood, to candles, to Esbit cubes, to valvoline saturated cotton balls to shredded birch bark.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  4. #124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Wow... It's been six years since I've chimed in on this thread...

    Back then, I said I only use matches.
    Today, I still carry a small set of regular matches in an old 35mm film canister. But those are more of a "back" that I only use on the rare occasions I try to build a fire.

    Today, I carry a Bic Mini, and so long as it sparks, I can still light my stove with it even if the fuel runs out.
    My mini bic is out of fuel, but I am still using it since 2010. My backup mini bic just sits and waited for its turn that doesn't seem like it's ever coming. I've done a thru on the AT in 2011 and have been a busy hiker since. So I'll second anyone that carries a bic.

  5. #125
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-18-2012
    Location
    Dark Side of the Moon
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,439
    Journal Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredt4 View Post
    My mini bic is out of fuel, but I am still using it since 2010. My backup mini bic just sits and waited for its turn that doesn't seem like it's ever coming. I've done a thru on the AT in 2011 and have been a busy hiker since. So I'll second anyone that carries a bic.
    Bic lighters big or small have a very long flint for people who can't grasp the concept of how to light it. I had one that still sparked for about 12 years after the fluid ran out. I am sold on mini Bic lighters as far as weight is concerned.
    Blackheart

  6. #126

    Default

    Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it.

  7. #127
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-06-2013
    Location
    Chicago, Il
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,719

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RockDoc View Post
    I've found that if you have a Bic lighter on for a long time, like a minute, trying to light a fire in difficult conditions, that it gets really hot and the plastic parts will melt and the lighter will be ruined. I would not rely on those for emergency conditions. Try it some time.
    It needs to be lit long enough to light my vaseline soaked cotton ball. As others mentioned it may not even need to light.
    I don't disagree with you, but that's not really a situation that most would use the lighter for. In the rare case I did not have a vaseline cotton ball or some kind of cheater... I build a birds nest and turn it upside down while holding the lighter right side up. If building a fire in the rain that allows me to shield the bird's nest with my hand as well as avoid letting rain fall on my lighter. Trying to reach into a fire lay with a bic held sideways or upside down is awkward at best, dangerous at worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it.
    Bushcrafters. One of the few gripes I have with the philosophy really. Primitive fire building is a nice skill to have, and a great way to practice fire building and respect for a properly built fire. Sweat your arse off and blister up your hands a few times generating a coal only to have it fail because your fire lay sucks and you'll learn to build a fire pretty quick.

    But after that... I'll take my 11g mini-bic. My spare 11g bic in 1g water proof pill bag, and my 11g back up mini-bic burried in my pack in a waterproof bag in a 1g pill bag with a pair of 1g tinderquick.
    To that I will add an ounce of vaseline dipped cotton ball cheaters (in a 1g pill bag).

    All of that is still lighter than a ferro rod. Most importantly it's much easier to light a cigar while I sip bourbon.

  8. #128
    GSMNP 900 Miler HooKooDooKu's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    51
    Posts
    3,793
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it.
    Building fire isn't a genetically inherited skill. It must be taught.
    Like most animals, we are lazy creatures, and we naturally tend to complete a task the easiest way we know how. So as we learn easier ways to build fire, we share that knowledge.

  9. #129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Building fire isn't a genetically inherited skill. It must be taught.
    Like most animals, we are lazy creatures, and we naturally tend to complete a task the easiest way we know how. So as we learn easier ways to build fire, we share that knowledge.
    It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.

  10. #130
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-06-2013
    Location
    Chicago, Il
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,719

    Default

    Yar, but follow that logic and that's what stoves are for. For 99% of backpackers fire is an unneeded skill saved for entertainment at best.
    Hippie TV is what my buddy calls it.

    It's part of camping for me... but I live in the relatively safe and stable midwest where woods are abundant and fire danger is typically zero.
    I build a small enough fire to sit right next to, and a big fire for me is what most consider too small to bother. So an armfull of wood is usually all I need.
    On the AT or crowded places I just gather some up about a 1/4 away from the shelter and bring it in to the shelter.

    Really- if I fell into the proverbial frozen stream (again)... I'd reach for my stove and set up a my shelter long before I bothered to start a fire. A hot drink, hot meal, and bundled in insulation is much safer and faster. Once the immediate danger has passed then you can get a fire going if you need to dry things out or for moral support.

    Part of that philosophical disagreement I have with them bush burning crafters, lol.

  11. #131
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-06-2013
    Location
    Chicago, Il
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,719

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
    Lotta folks didn't. I'm a chicago burbs kid who was blessed with being in a good boy scout troop and at least having some open land and forest preserves to go screw off in a bit.

    So yar... it's like riding a bike.

    Plenty of folks like Skurka, Jennifer Pharr Davis, and thousands of folks every year who's first real camping trip may be setting foot on the AT.
    Long distance hiking in general has a pretty large skills gap/blind spot that other outdoors users find confussing.

    For even some very successful and prominent hikers... they just are not skills that you need. What's nice about getting over the Xtreme UL craze and the Prepper craze is that both extremes of outdoor use are returning to a more general skillset and broader knowledge base.

    Nothing to do with this zombie thread really, but seems we're both bored at work today, lol.

  12. #132
    GSMNP 900 Miler HooKooDooKu's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-25-2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Age
    51
    Posts
    3,793
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
    But you're ignoring the other half of my argument... the lazy factor.

    It's "rocket science" that has allowed us to invent bic lighters and perhaps scientifically study better ways to building a fire.

    If there was no "better" way to build a fire than what you learned at age six, then we would have all learned that way of building a fire and we would all be doing that.


    Use the canister stove as an example. Unless there is some over riding factor (such as needing to go ultra light weight, or operating in extreme conditions) just about every back packer cooking in the back country is doing so with a canister stove. Of all the options available (fire, gas, canister, alcohol, alternative fuels), nothing can match the canister stove in availability, ease of use, and control. It's the "easiest" solution (for MOST conditions) and therefore it's almost universally used.

  13. #133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    But you're ignoring the other half of my argument... the lazy factor.

    It's "rocket science" that has allowed us to invent bic lighters and perhaps scientifically study better ways to building a fire.

    If there was no "better" way to build a fire than what you learned at age six, then we would have all learned that way of building a fire and we would all be doing that.


    Use the canister stove as an example. Unless there is some over riding factor (such as needing to go ultra light weight, or operating in extreme conditions) just about every back packer cooking in the back country is doing so with a canister stove. Of all the options available (fire, gas, canister, alcohol, alternative fuels), nothing can match the canister stove in availability, ease of use, and control. It's the "easiest" solution (for MOST conditions) and therefore it's almost universally used.
    After learning to build a fire at six, or under, learning how to use a bic, or any other new method, takes a few seconds. Endless discussion of it is unnecessary.

  14. #134
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-01-2014
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Humans have been building fires for hundreds of thousands of years. It amazes me that there are still some humans that need to endlessly discuss how to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    It ainít rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and havenít felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
    Then gpburdelljr, you haven't played around much with building fires in difficult situations. Like you, I was taught at a young age, having grown up in a house that was heated by wood. From my earliest memories, my primary family chore was managing the wood and fire (my sisters cooked and cleaned, I had the better deal). Further, starting with the first backpacking trip I remember (when I was about 5 years old) cooking with fire was a central part of the experience. Until I was almost graduated from high school and started mountaineering and thus camping in places where there wasn't wood to burn, I always backpacked and cooked with wood fires and though people that used stoves just didn't fully appreciate what backpacking was all about.
    AND, given that background, every year I still learn more about how to make better fires faster in less cooperative environments. And, there are still situations where I am not certain I would be able to succeed in building and maintaining a fire. To suggest that backcountry fire building is easy and doesn't benefit from discussion is a resounding claim of either naivety or a drastic lack of breadth in the backcountry one has ever built fires in (i.e. naivety).

    As for rocket science . . . your darn right fire building isn't rocket science! It's an art that doesn't always work in the consistent manner a rocket scientist might expect it to. It's a art that requires practice and experimentation to expand one skills to be able to succeed in a wide array of inclement environments where frankly it might also be the most import.

    Yeah, I think you hit a nerve with me on this one because thinking fire building is easy is just plain stupid and irresponsible. If you think it's easy and are struggling with it, you feel dumb and frustrated with yourself when, in reality what you are doing is hard and takes time and practice. Or, if you think it's easy and therefore already know how to do it, you better darn well never get yourself into a situation where you are in trouble, need fire, likely due to foul weather where everything is wet and it's pouring rain.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  15. #135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    Then gpburdelljr, you haven't played around much with building fires in difficult situations. Like you, I was taught at a young age, having grown up in a house that was heated by wood. From my earliest memories, my primary family chore was managing the wood and fire (my sisters cooked and cleaned, I had the better deal). Further, starting with the first backpacking trip I remember (when I was about 5 years old) cooking with fire was a central part of the experience. Until I was almost graduated from high school and started mountaineering and thus camping in places where there wasn't wood to burn, I always backpacked and cooked with wood fires and though people that used stoves just didn't fully appreciate what backpacking was all about.
    AND, given that background, every year I still learn more about how to make better fires faster in less cooperative environments. And, there are still situations where I am not certain I would be able to succeed in building and maintaining a fire. To suggest that backcountry fire building is easy and doesn't benefit from discussion is a resounding claim of either naivety or a drastic lack of breadth in the backcountry one has ever built fires in (i.e. naivety).

    As for rocket science . . . your darn right fire building isn't rocket science! It's an art that doesn't always work in the consistent manner a rocket scientist might expect it to. It's a art that requires practice and experimentation to expand one skills to be able to succeed in a wide array of inclement environments where frankly it might also be the most import.

    Yeah, I think you hit a nerve with me on this one because thinking fire building is easy is just plain stupid and irresponsible. If you think it's easy and are struggling with it, you feel dumb and frustrated with yourself when, in reality what you are doing is hard and takes time and practice. Or, if you think it's easy and therefore already know how to do it, you better darn well never get yourself into a situation where you are in trouble, need fire, likely due to foul weather where everything is wet and it's pouring rain.
    This thread isn’t about lighting fires in difficult wet conditions, it’s about whether to use a fire stick, matches, a bic, etc., and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what works.

  16. #136
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-13-2015
    Location
    Orangeville, Ontario, Canada
    Age
    68
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    (TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!): Ö you think it's easy Ö
    At the risk of pouring oil on the discussion fire, how many of us can reliably make fire Ďfrom scratchí? Iíll stipulate that you have lost everything and are starting with having to find everything from your surroundings.

    Next week, Iím out hiking the La Cloche Silhouette Trail around Killarney Provincial Park in Ontario. Iíll see what I can accomplish Ö

    Iíll sort of Ďcheatí and gather materials as I hike, rather than the more extreme position of randomly stopping and having to work with whatís immediately around me. I do know that Iím spending several days hiking through one of the oldest quartzite stone tool quarries dating to the earliest days of post-glacial occupation.

    Iíll need sharp stone edge tools, dry basswood or brash old white cedar (arbor vitae) for hearth and spindle, milkweed or basswood or wood nettle for fibre, and birchbark and puffballs for tinder.

  17. #137
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-01-2014
    Location
    Norwell, MA
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    This thread isnít about lighting fires in difficult wet conditions, itís about whether to use a fire stick, matches, a bic, etc.,
    AND, what works is very dependent on the conditions in which you are trying to light a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    and it doesnít take a rocket scientist to figure out what works.
    Again, what works kinda depends on the conditions. Pretty much anything can light a vaseline soaked cotton ball. In sub-freezing, high wind a bic can be pretty useless in the hands of many people. In wind-blown wet conditions where your tinder is damp, some of those magnesium shavings might be a life saver. For most people, most of the time, anything more complicated than a mini-bic is silly and unnecessary overkill as long as you also have some decent fire starter to go with it.

    And, I'm still trying to figure out how rocket science does or doesn't pertain to starting fires while backpacking since we are not talking about, or even trying to talk about controlled repeatable, mathematical engineering. But, we are talking about something that many people consider very important to be able to do and succeed in doing in a variety of difficult situations. And, success tends to stem from repeated experimentation and often discussion with others that have found some techniques that work better than others.

    As to Trailium's comment about sorta cheating, suggesting that collecting fire making resources as you hike is cheating is kinda like trying to feed off the land and suggesting that collecting food while you're hiking is cheating. The only way I've every been able to reliably make fire "from scratch" is to collect the best materials I can find over a significant distance. I've had to cover quite significant distances to find dry enough and/or flammable enough tinder to start a fire (even with a bic) when it's raining and everything has been for days.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  18. #138
    Registered User
    Join Date
    11-13-2015
    Location
    Orangeville, Ontario, Canada
    Age
    68
    Posts
    339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    As to Trailium's comment about sorta cheating, suggesting that collecting fire making resources as you hike is cheating is kinda like trying to feed off the land and suggesting that collecting food while you're hiking is cheating. The only way I've every been able to reliably make fire "from scratch" is to collect the best materials I can find over a significant distance. I've had to cover quite significant distances to find dry enough and/or flammable enough tinder to start a fire (even with a bic) when it's raining and everything has been for days.
    Yep. My point is that firestarting can be a real challenge in difficult circumstances ó and that the ďtools carried between the earsĒ are remarkably sophisticated and non-trivial.

  19. #139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    It ain’t rocket science. I learned at six, or younger, and haven’t felt the need to get into lengthy discussions about it since.
    Yet here you are discussing it.

    The larger point here is working with fire in various conditions, which some people may not be that skilled with given the low demand for fire building and stove lighting in daily life. As HooKoo points out, working with fire in uncontrolled environments is a learned skill. Through these discussions and reading how others manage this process, the tools they use to ignite materials, and materials one can prepare like Vaseline coated cotton balls (which work surprisingly well) or fashioning inverted birds nests of tinder in wet weather, those without a lot of experience can have a better idea of what can work for them.

    No, its not rocket science. But like most things it has to be learned unless one opts for osmosis, which has a colorful history of not working well.

  20. #140
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-18-2012
    Location
    Dark Side of the Moon
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,439
    Journal Entries
    6

    Default

    You can find out if a person knows any thing about fire building by watching them light a charcoal grill. Too much fluid and then the big whoosh of flame tells me they wouldn't know the first thing about starting a small fire made of wood while out in the woods.
    Blackheart

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •