Mountain Bikes on National Scenic Trails

[nca777]

Hikers and bikes should be kept separated. There's nothing more shocking and upsetting than suddenly having mountain bikers (usually several) flying towards you at 20 mph. They are almost silent. It is a very dangerous situation.

I just stopped by the site to browse and found this thread. There is so much poor information in this thread its comical. MTBers are notorious for being active trail building and maintenance participants--

1.this is because unsustainable trails are really unenjoyable to ride on a bike, ie grades over 10 percent, excessive roots and rocks from erosion, poorly designed switchbacks or no switchbacks.

2. It is well known, at least in colorado, that mtbers must (and do) yield to all other trail users. I always slow WAY down or dismount completely followed by a friendly greeting to alert the other user that I am approaching. 99% of the time everyone goes on their merry way. Its is almost always very easy to see hikers, dogs, and other bipeds on the trail LONG before you're 'on them'.

3. 20mph on singletrack in most cases is ridiculous, more like 10 or 15 max.

4. Mtbers shouldnt and often do not ride when the trail is muddy and loose for obvious reasons--slippery roots, no tread, and rutting. It is well known to any novice mtber that riding in mud conditions is not cool.

5. MTbers do not tend to enjoy riding 'off trail'. In over ten years of mtbing and backpacking I have maybe only once seen a mtber cut a switchback. In that same time I have seen NUMEROUS backpackers leave the trail, cut switchbacks, drop trash, build camps and firepits in plain sight, etc, etc.

I say ban morons from all trails.

[staehpj1]

Last year I hiked the Creeper trail into Damascus. The Creeper Trail is a multi use trail and is mainely used by bike riders. The Creeper Trail is built on a once rail bed and is nicely graded and quite wide. When walking the trail with a full back pack on you have to continuely turn to see approaching bike riders comming and afford them plenty of room to pass. They always assumed that they had the right of way. I could just imagine these riders on the AT. Hikers would be the ones havimng to yield to the bike riders.
The AT was built for hikers by hikers. The AT trail system is now maintained and governed by hikers and should be kept that way.
The biker folks should loby for, fund and build their own trails to ride on and keep the AT a "No wheeled vehicle" trail.

I don't think the Creeper trail is a good example. It is pretty much a MUP, not really a trail. Furthermore it is ridden mostly by non cyclists who rent a bike for a few hours and get shuttled for a downhill ride. They tend to think they are on a amusement park ride or something. Those guys have next to nothing in common with mountain bikers.

[MuddyWaters]

too many issues already with bikes and horses going where they arent supposed to imo.

why dont we allow motorcycles too, or 4wheelers, or trucks. Hell just pave the things. Some people wont be happy until even wheelchair bound people have access to every point in the backcountry.

What little wild lands we have left, is destroyed by people. The more access, the more types, the greater destruction and loss of wildness.

All because somepeople cry they want to go there too.

The only way to protect anything, is to ban all people from it. I increasingly think we probably should do that, or our grandchldren will have nothing.

[Tipi Walter]

too many issues already with bikes and horses going where they arent supposed to imo.

why dont we allow motorcycles too, or 4wheelers, or trucks. Hell just pave the things. Some people wont be happy until even wheelchair bound people have access to every point in the backcountry.

What little wild lands we have left, is destroyed by people. The more access, the more types, the greater destruction and loss of wildness.

All because somepeople cry they want to go there too.

The only way to protect anything, is to ban all people from it. I increasingly think we probably should do that, or our grandchldren will have nothing.

Instead of banning all humans it's simple just to allow all humans BUT ON FOOT ONLY. This weeds out the tiresome bicyclists and turd spewing mud churning horsemen and noise loving ATV's and snowmobiles and all the rest. These guys have millions of miles of dirt roads in America to use but insist on wanting it all. Foot trails are foot trails, period. Which is why we need to designate more land as wilderness areas--and to kick out the horses.

[slow mind]

I ate a horse cheeseburger a couple years ago..... sweet sweet revenge.

[Tipi Walter]

I ate a horse cheeseburger a couple years ago..... sweet sweet revenge.

It's not the horse's fault. You'd need to eat a horseMAN cheeseburger to make it work.

[Dogwood]

MTBers are notorious for being active trail building and maintenance participants - nca777

That depends on the local, state, or regional MBing community. In CO where MBing is huge and is well organized MBers absolutely do show up for trail construction and maintenance ON TRAILS THAT ARE OPEN TO THEM. *However, NOT EVERY local or regional MBing community is SO THOUGHTFUL or responsible though! Since MANY MANY more miles of trails are currently ONLY OPEN to hikers and/or stock than all these users combined - hikers, stock, MBers - in a multi-use trail, IMHO it is up to the MBing community to amply demonstrate that they are capable of sharing hiking(possibly multi user) trails in a responsible and safe manner AND ARE WILLING TO DEVOTE RESOURCES to that establishment and maintenance of such multi-user appropriate trails in ALL AREAS where they wish to share the trail. And, this needs to expand beyond the present attitudes that exist in places like CO and AZ to MBing communities in other states where they wish to gain access to trail(s)! I have some reservations in this regard but seek common ground when applicable.

It is well known, at least in colorado, that mtbers must (and do) yield to all other trail users. I always slow WAY down or dismount completely followed by a friendly greeting to alert the other user that I am approaching. 99% of the time everyone goes on their merry way. Its is almost always very easy to see hikers, dogs, and other bipeds on the trail LONG before you're 'on them'. - nca777

You verbalize your actions as one who is a responsible MBer. I sincerely hope that is the situation in practice. If you do as you say and dismount your bike when appropriate I tip my hat to you. AGAIN, I will repeat what I stated in a previous post. Yielding to those who have the right of way SOMETIMES ENTAILS ceding the trail(single track) to those who have the right of way. That MAY MEAN MBers have to stop and take their bikes out of the single track JUST AS HIKERS DO WHEN STOCK PASSES ON SINGLE TRACK BECAUSE STOCK HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY OVER EVERYONE ELSE. I VERY RARELY EXPERIENCE THIS MENTALITY BY MBers ON MULTI-USER SINGLE TRACK!!! On the CT, where MBers are allowed, I RARELY(virtually NEVER!) experienced MBers doing that in supposedly yielding to hikers! Note my previous comments. While on multi - user single track where MBers are supposed to share the trail AND YIELD TO HIKERS, ARE MBers TRULY YIELDING TO HIKERS BY EXPECTING THEM TO CONSISTENTLY REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM THE SINGLE TRACK so they on bicycles can continue rolling along within the tread?

As someone who occasionally competitively mountain bikes but who is also a dedicated hiker I find that on muti-user trails yielding AND CEDING the single track by stopping on a bike or walking a bike around a hiker goes against MUCH OF THE competitive mountain biking mentality! And, lets be real; the MAJORITY who MB are competitive Type A personalities. And, IMHO, CO MBers are generally good outdoors folks that generally have a decent level of consideration of other outdoors people. I can see greater issues between MBers and hikers on narrow trails in the Northeast for example. On wide trails or double track or trails on old roads I can see greater multi-use between MBers and hikers.

20mph on singletrack in most cases is ridiculous, more like 10 or 15 max. - nca777

Don't know how well you know the entire Colorado Trali(CT) where MBers are also allowed. On parts of the CT I noticed MANY a MBer obtaining 20 mph + speeds. The CT, on sections, with sufficient MBing expertise, is designed and maintained for this capability. On both my CT and CDT thru-hikes I noticed MANY a MBer on the CT obtaining these speeds.

In that same time I have seen NUMEROUS backpackers leave the trail(?)l, cut switchbacks, drop trash, build camps and firepits in plain sight, etc, etc.- nca777

Yeah, some irresponsible hikers do these things but I personally engage these types of hikers and the hiking community to avoid this type of behavior.

I say ban morons from all trails. - nca777

Hey, I'll do my part with the moron MBers and Hikers I meet and you do the same!

[Dogwood]

This weeds out the tiresome bicyclists and turd spewing mud churning horsemen and noise loving ATV's and snowmobiles and all the rest - TipiWalter

...turd spewing mud churning horsemen...noise loving ATV's...snowmobiles...Poetic! At least the horse turds can be used by the plants as fertilizer and they keep me foot placement alert. NEVER had an issue with an equestrian or stock on an APPROPRIATE multi-user trail!. I'd rather experience an animal on a trail rather than an animal on a bike, or on/in an ATV or snowmobile.

[davidmorganrn]

agree as a lifelong biker-just NOT on AT.