Winter Northbound Gear Help

[lostinthe_trees]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum. I’m in the midst of preparing for my upcoming, solo NoBo AT hike. I will start in mid-January 2013. I am currently a Master’s student and will be graduating in December, hiking the AT, and then starting a Ph.D. program in the Fall of 2013.

I have done a fair amount of winter camping in northern Pennsylvania, but not a lot of winter backpacking. In addition, I am not very familiar with winter conditions in the south. I have been reading trail journals (the few that I have found for winter northbounders) and searching online for advice regarding gear for winter NoBo hikes, but at times it has been overwhelming.

As a graduate student, with a significant amount of debt, I cannot afford to replace all of my equipment, so I thought that a good starting point would be to list the major items that I have already and get your collective advice regarding which gear items I should focus on upgrading and anything I will need to add. I am 6’0”, 215 lbs, with strong legs and core, so I think I will be ok without going ultralight, but I do want to keep the weight down enough to increase my chances of successfully completing a through hike.

Please feel free to address all or any of the items below.

Pack: I’ve been using an old panel-loading EMS 3000 bag, which is too worn to even consider bringing, meaning I will absolutely have to purchase a new pack. Because I will be carrying extra volume and weight for the first few months in colder weather, I’m willing to sacrifice pack weight in order have space/capacity and comfort with heavier loads. I’ve been looking at the Osprey Atmos 65.

Shelter: Big Agnes Madhouse 2, 7 lb 1oz fully packed

This seems ridiculously heavy, but I would feel comfortable in this thing in a blizzard (I’ve 8” of snow fall on it with no problems) and there is room for all gear inside and to cook in vestibule area. My thoughts are that, while it would be nice to have this bombproof winter shelter, the weight is likely impractical. I will need a lighter shelter for the second half of the trip anyway, and I was thinking of something like the double rainbow tarptent.
Is it reasonable to assume that there will be empty shelters the first part of the hike and the double rainbow (or equivalent) will do in a winter storm if I get caught in between shelters? Later in the hike I will be trying to avoid people and will want to tent if there is anyone using the shelters. Also, I will need a full enclosure for the bugs in the north, when I get there.

Sleeping Bag: Quest -25F Thermolite, 46 oz. fill (not sure total weight, maybe approaching 5lbs :/ )

This is a heavy, cheap (but warm) bag which was given to me as a gift. I am a cold sleeper and could likely do with a 0F, or maybe even a 15F bag if I have warm clothes designated for wearing at camp and inside the bag. I’m kind of leaning toward a nice, down, 15F bag, but I’m not sure if 15F is suitable for winter in the Smokies.

Stove: MSR Dragonfly, Stove and pump weight = 16 oz. (Plus fuel, of course)

I like this stove because of the versatility. I would rather not replace it.

Cookset: Snow Peak Titanium Multi Compact Cookset, 11.6 oz.

This cookset has served me well and I would rather not replace.

Clothing:

Other than picking up some Capilene 3 tops on sale recently, I really need to work on my clothing. Of course I need to secure some bottom base layers and outer layers. Any suggestions specific to a winter NoBo hike?

Footwear: Vasque Summit GTX

These boots fit well. I intend to wear these or get a similar full leather/Gore-tex boot and keep the Vasques as a backup pair (I’m pretty sure that I will go through more than one pair).

Again, I am looking for cost-effective gear options appropriate for winter conditions. Any other suggestions for a winter NoBo would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who have successfully completed one. I thank you all very much for your help.

[kayak karl]

pad for under bag? or did i miss it?

[lostinthe_trees]

Guess I can't edit.. Good call, Karl - I forgot to write it down.

Pad: Thermarest Trail Lite Reg., 1 lb. 12 oz.

[bigcranky]

Pack: Something like a ULA Catalyst, ~4000 cubic inches, able to handle 35-40 pounds and hold winter gear. In my case I use a Circuit, which is one size down, and holds my winter gear just fine. The Atmos 65 is the right size; just make sure you like how it rides (I didn't.) An Osprey Aether 60 is fine, too.

Shelter: Many trail shelters will be mostly empty in January and February, but they are a lot colder than a tent. The Double Rainbow is a good choice for a solo winter tent -- great stability in wind, and lots of room for a solo hiker. A Tarptent Moment would be a decent choice, too (that's what I use.) 7+ pounds is ridiculously heavy

Bag: A 0-F rated bag is fine, if it's a high quality bag from a reputable company that is rated accurately. I use a Western Mountaineering Antelope (5F), which can handle pretty much any winter conditions I would want to be out in here in NC. The Marmot and Montbell bags are also very good, and often on sale.

Kitchen: all fine.

Clothing: I posted this a couple of years ago for a hiker beginning in February. I think it holds up pretty well.

These days I also bring eVent gaiters and eVent overmitts from Mountain Laurel Designs for winter use. One of the more common winter conditions here is 33-F and raining, which is miserable, and the mitts help a lot.

Overall: The weather varies dramatically, from year to year and also from week to week. Some years are very warm - we had temps in the 70s in the Nantahalas in January one year - and others bring a constant stream of major winter storms. You'll probably have a better idea what sort of winter to expect by the time you leave. You may need snow shoes; you'll definitely want some sort of traction device like Stabilicers or similar.

Be prepared to get off the trail every 4 or 5 days to dry out your gear, warm yourself, and resupply. That's pretty easy along the Southern A.T.

Sounds like a great plan - have fun.

[kayak karl]

since i hammock in the winter i can't help ya, but my hammock, top+bottom quilt and tarp are 4.8 lbs.
my pinnacle pack is 2 lb.
kitchen 9 oz.
you're more then double. it is slippery, wet and all up hill in georgia. i carried too much 3 years ago and won't make that mistake again. i do over kill on my hands and feet for warmth.
not saying not to go, but try to get the weight down to at least 30 lb. with food
have fun
kk
PS somebody will tell you it gets dark early in the winter (like we don't know this ) and take extra money because you will be waiting out storms in towns (i waited them out on the trail)

[Feral Bill]

Guess I can't edit.. Good call, Karl - I forgot to write it down.

Pad: Thermarest Trail Lite Reg., 1 lb. 12 oz.

I'd consider a thin closed cell pad as extra and as backup.

[moldy]

What do you think about a totally different approach? Instead of being the tortose, you be the hare. Get an I-phone and a 25 pound pack. For the first 6 or 8 weeks your order of battle is to hike like crazy during good weather and hide out in hostels and cheap hotels in bad weather. For example, start in good weather and shoot for the 21 miles to Woody Gap(Hostle) which is a day and a half if you don't trudge in deep snow. If the weather holds it's only 1 day to Neels gap.(Hostle) , It is 22 miles to Unicoi Gap and Helen Ga(cheap hotel). 18 miles later is Dicks Creek Gap, Hiawassee(hostle),
Now you have to find a big weather hole because it's 40 miles to Winding Stair Gap and Franklin NC (Cheap hotel), Now it's 25 miles to the NOC. 2 more days to Fontana, 4 days thru the Smokies to Newfound gap, 2 more to Standing Bear Farms, 3 to Hot Springs etc. etc. Use that I-phone for the weather report. A 20 degree bag with a fleece, a light emergency tent and good warm clothing. You may have to sleep in your down jacket. By mid March you will be in Northern Virginia. The real unknown here is the weather. This method would have worked very well last year but not so well the year before. You should know that even the tortose in bad weather crawls into those same holes anyway. Just a different way to look at it.

[Bati]

I had a lot of bad weather when I started, but survived with the following clothing items. You'll probably have less snow, but it never hurts to be prepared if you can handle the weight. I had make some small adjustments at Neels Gap, where I added the overmits. The list is updated a bit since some new products have come out.

Tevas or crocs, open toe so you can wear socks with them (I don't know how crocs work in the snow, but tevas with grocery bags over socks reduced the pain of frozen footwear in the middle of the night.)

expedition weight polypro or capilene, zipper turtle neck (try army surplus for cheap, good stuff)
short sleeve silk weight polypro or capilene t-shirt
long sleeve silk weight polypro or capilene shirt
gore-tex (or similar technogy)jacket with attached hood and no hard closures on the hood (they will cut your face in a storm)
full side-zip gore-tex pants (you might skip, but I got a lot of use from them)
gaiters (length doesn't matter with full side zips, yes, I wore them a lot)
expedition weight polypro bottoms (worn around camp mostly)
medium weight polypro bottoms
nylon shorts (worn less then once a week, but mentally they helped. And once it warmed up, I wore them a lot)
polypro underwear
wool-blend socks (four, but I had cloth boots so the socks were always soaked)
expedition weight polypro balaclava (I wore it almost constantly).
expedition weight polypro gloves liners( can be thinner weight- these allow you to eat etc. with gloves on)
waterproof over mittens (I used one that was both insulating and shed water, used them a lot)
100% cotton bandanna (mandatory in winter if you wear glasses as they will fog)
plastic grocery bags or similar, to form a vapor barrier for your feet


Also pack sunglasses as snow can be brutal when it's sunny and there will be no shade for several weeks.
Some things I wore constantly. I recall one person whom I'd been staying with for 3 or 4 days but not hiking with commenting when I took off the balaclava to comb my hair. He hadn't seen my face in all that time, since it had been pulled down over my face except when I was hiking and warm. Be sure to change into drier clothes as soon as you stop hiking, and also before you start in the morning.

My philosophy was that I was there to enjoy backpacking what I could find of the AT, not to hang out in dingy hostels with no facilities. I was carrying about 35 pounds after a resupply. Resupply points will be much further apart if you have bad weather, so try to carry a bit of extra food.

[kayak karl]

have you done 20 miles in the winter? not that easy just starting out.

[Saprogenic]

Will that 7lb tent and sleeping bag even fit in your pack, and still leave room for everything else including food?
That was my biggest thing when I started backpacking. All my gear was so heavy and bulky, that I had to get all new gear. I switched to the hammock and down quilts. One thing that impresses me the most is the silnylon tarps and down quilts. They are not only so lightweight, but how small they pack down to still impresses me today.

[Snowleopard]

A synthetic sleeping bag that is good to -25F is HUGE when packed, though your bag is probably not good to -24f Even a 0f synthetic bag packs down very big. Consider getting a down bag, a good one if you can afford it or a used or cheaper one. Synthetics just don't compress enough. I'd say replace your sleeping bag first. Your tent is also heavy and bulky. Perhaps your pack can be repaired well enough; have someone who sews look at it or ask EMS (EMS might replace it).

The strategy many early hikers use is to wait out bad weather or cold spells in town in a heated motel/hostel. To really be prepared for a bad weather down south, look up TipiWalter's posts here on WB.

For traction, Kahtoola microspikes are the best when you don't need real crampons (and you won't need real crampons down south). I would carry snowshoes in winter up north, but TipiWalter does not and he has the most experience of the southern mountains in winter.

[booney_1]

DITCH THE 7 pound TENT!!! The shelters will be empty. For extra warmth (wind blocking) setup your a light weight tent in the shelter. Normally this irritates people, but you'll be alone for a couple of months. .

Don't bring your whole cookset...just one pot. The MSR will be appreciated by you in the winter, but you might think about going alcohol/tab stove in the warm weather.

Bring good maps and use them. In NC and VA a lot of the trail is on ridgelines and it will be hard to follow the blazes. The ones on rocks will be covered at times.

Understand, that other people starting when you are have used snow shoes, and/or pulled a sled. I read the previous post about snowshoes and am just making the point that you will have some rough slogging at times. If you have backpacked much in PA you know that it gets tough to hike in deep snow.
I think that a lot of people hole up in town during storms.

good luck.

[McPick]

All good advice. Research, research, research... (and you thought you were getting out of school!) You have a PM.