hike safe

[HikerMom58]

Okay... I NEVER said that anyone shouldn't take responsibility for their own actions EVER.
You were showing up on the thread giving us a play by play on DJ. I just wanted to know if he was a "loose cannon" or if he was depending/listening to ya'll for knowledge/advise on hiking. If he was looking to you guys for advice, I foolishly pointed out that you are taking on some sense of responsibility for what advice you were giving him.

If it was known that he did, in fact, follow your advice and it ended badly it might not be a good thing for you or him so you might think about making sure he knows it is HIS own responsibility. That's where the "disclaimer" part came in, it's for your own good and his.

You jumped right over that and went straight into THIS. I have no problem with THIS. I agree 100%. AND you never answered my question about whether or not he is still a loose cannon. In which case, you would be wasting your time if he's already made up his mind that he's going to do his own thing and not take any advise from anyone. Gezzzzzzzz!

My current thread was about getting people to think about their responsibly in posting their advice etc..like you said, maybe people with little or no experience should think twice about offering their advice. I try to do that myself. I don't post on a lot of threads b/c I know nothing about the topic. I love to read them to learn things, myself. We all hold a certain sense of responsibility, always for ourselves but then again for others around us, as well. That's my opinion.

[hikerboy57]

first off, theres plenty of information on dakota joe if you know where to look,and you do.
from day one i have chosen to support dakota joe,i made a decision that was based on my observation that he was someone who wanted to turn his life around.something i can personally relate to, so i gave him a shot.his douchebag former associate murdock really gave dj this bada** persona that really didnt exist, and i sent him my gear to give to dj, to give the guy more of a shot. i knew he didnt have any clue what he was getting into. but when he himself finally came on to post, there was a different attitude.and now hes asking questions, his fall on the ice and injury spanked him a bit, and hes learned a bit of respect for ol'mother nature.
as far as whatever advice hes been given, its always been given with the best of intentions.the kid is capable of learning, and is doing just that in the time hes spent off trail.i still dont think he has either the right gear or the knowledge to get through winter in the mountains, but i think hes now smart enough to bail if he has to.
what he does have is an indominable spirit, and that counts for a lot.so , my attitude is wait and see, and i'll try to give him whatever help i can.
a direct question to you hikermom do you really think, for a second, i would ever give anyone anything less than my best information and opinion?

its information, its up to him to decide what to do with it.but the spanking he got on the ice taught him something.i think everyone needs to get spanked sometimes, to learn a healthy respect for the elements and mountain weather.i know i have.

[HikerMom58]

To answer you question, hikerboy. I don't believe that you would ever give anyone anything less than your best information and opinion. I feel you do have that sense of responsibility towards everyone you interact with.. You didn't agree with me on that. You fought me on it. I didn't understand so I laughed it off. It made no sense that you couldn't agree with me. lol

I luv you but you are hard to communicate with sometimes. Whew!! You need to take agreeable lessons from rocketsocks.

AND you finally answered my question about how you feel about his level of teach-ability. Sounds like he's a bit slow still.
AND if would have been NICE if you would have shared with us that you are not advising him to be hiking in the mountain's with his level of experience and gear, this time of year. (winter) That's perfect! Thanks!

Quoting you here:

"but i think hes now smart enough to bail if he has to." That's still a lil scary to me.... just pray that he won't have to call SAR, right?
As we know, those mountains can be unforgiving. That could be yet another "spanking", for him but he could be putting others at risk as well. It's all about taking responsibility for yourself and thinking of how your decisions not only affect yourself but others around you. I think you can agree with me, 100%.

[hikerboy57]

you have a nice way of restating what wasnt said or implied. he is not "a bit slow", hes a good guy who is both smart and teachable.i didnt advise him not to hike.i and others have responded to various questions hes posed and given him good information to help him continue his trip.when i said hes smart enough to bail, well that was learning by trial. if he hadnt gotten spanked,as i said, he probably wouldnt be as aware of some of the risks .he is now aware.he is learning.neither i nor anyone else is going to tell him what to do or not to do.we are providing information, and im sure dj fully accepts the risks, and has learned already an important lesson in risk analysis.
i believe he is now better equipped to make better decisions.
but,again, they are his decisions,not mine. should he get into trouble, its certainly not due to the information/advice we've given him. as the more affable rocketsocks said, even the post season mountaineers can get into trouble.hopefully he'll be able to avoid getting into serious sh** and make good decisions.and if he comes to us for information, we'll continue to provide him with the best info we can.
everyone who hikes in winter puts others at risk, consciously or not,regardless of level of experience.experience, and experience only , is how people learn to deal with the elements.you can read all you want, but it takes getting out there to find out what works and what doesnt.and sometimes a good spanking.
as far as dakota joe goes, i wish him luck and will help him if and when i can, but in the end, its his hike, not mine.

the hiker code should include one very important point:sh** happens.

[aficion]

HM and HB
My advice....go take a hike
Don't forget your spikes

[hikerboy57]

HM and HB
My advice....go take a hike
Don't forget your spikes

i'll be walking soon .
71 days to launch,
so,it is all good.

[HikerMom58]

Ok... this is the last reply. I didn't mean a 'bit slow" as in mentally, at all. I was referring to his willingness to reach out & ask for advice b/c you were the one that mentioned, he was starting to ask questions, inferring that he wasn't doing that before.... teachable.

This is where you & I part ways... If I were his friend, I would say to him in no uncertain terms. In my humble opinion coupled with my experience and knowledge- I would NOT advise you to hike during the winter. Here's why-- IMHO, (you stated already that you feel this way) DJ, you don't have enough experience or the proper equipment to be out there.

I would continue to say...

If you don't want to hear this or take my/our advice then that's entirely up to you. We won't kick you to the curb for not listening to us. Instead, we will continue to be here for you and offer any help we can to help keep you safe out there... ask away.

To me, that would be the most responsible thing to say and do. We can agree to disagree!

Good luck on your upcoming hike, buddy! Can't wait to see you when you hit Daleville!

[Teacher & Snacktime]

71....70....69....68.....I'm excited for you! Have fun & see you in Damascus I hope!

[rocketsocks]

To answer you question, hikerboy. I don't believe that you would ever give anyone anything less than your best information and opinion. I feel you do have that sense of responsibility towards everyone you interact with.. You didn't agree with me on that. You fought me on it. I didn't understand so I laughed it off. It made no sense that you couldn't agree with me. lol

I luv you but you are hard to communicate with sometimes. Whew!! You need to take agreeable lessons from rocketsocks.

AND you finally answered my question about how you feel about his level of teach-ability. Sounds like he's a bit slow still.
AND if would have been NICE if you would have shared with us that you are not advising him to be hiking in the mountain's with his level of experience and gear, this time of year. (winter) That's perfect! Thanks!

Quoting you here:

"but i think hes now smart enough to bail if he has to." That's still a lil scary to me.... just pray that he won't have to call SAR, right?
As we know, those mountains can be unforgiving. That could be yet another "spanking", for him but he could be putting others at risk as well. It's all about taking responsibility for yourself and thinking of how your decisions not only affect yourself but others around you. I think you can agree with me, 100%.

youu have a nice way of restating what wasnt said or implied. he is not "a bit slow", hes a good guy who is both smart and teachable.i didnt advise him not to hike.i and others have responded to various questions hes posed and given him good information to help him continue his trip.when i said hes smart enough to bail, well that was learning by trial. if he hadnt gotten spanked,as i said, he probably wouldnt be as aware of some of the risks .he is now aware.he is learning.neither i nor anyone else is going to tell him what to do or not to do.we are providing information, and im sure dj fully accpets the risks, and has learned already an important lesson in risk analysis.
i believe he is now better equipped to make better decisions.
but,again, they are his decisions,not mine. should he get into trouble, its certainly not due to the information/advice we've given him. as the more affable rocketsocks said, even the post experienced mountaineers can get into trouble.hopefully he'll be able to avoid getting into serious sh** and make good decisions.and if he comes to us for information, we'll continue to provide him with the best info we can.
everyone who hikes in winter puts others at risk, consciously or not,regardless of level of experience.experience, and experience only , is how people learn to deal with the elements.you can read all you want, but it takes getting out there to find out what works and what doesnt.and sometimes a good spanking.
as far as dakota joe goes, i wish him luck and will help him if and when i can, but in the end, its his hike, not mine.

the hiker code should include one very important point:sh** happens.

I'm only gonna interject here cause I heard my name, and for no other reason...than to say.

While Dakota Joe may not have tons of hiking experience or miles (neither do I) He's a grown Man with real world experience, is extremely articulate and has something that is very refreshing to me in younger folks...Balls, the essence of the human spirit, good ole testosterone (makes us do crazy stuff sometimes) that drives a person to do what they do. That said, I don't think for one minute that Joe would quit his adventure he's on for anybody's opinion of timing, gear, ego, or even lack of comforts...it's just not gonna happen, he's a Man on a mission, he has a goal, a plan, anything else would be just lip service with a smile and a thank you very much and I'll send ya a post card. I truly believe that. He's a smart bright guy. I' think he'll make it.
Go Joe Go

that said, I'm sure he'll lay up in town when the stuff hits the fan, be crazy not to. I would!

[Teacher & Snacktime]

"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had to, I'd be King!"

....and the King laughed, because he had to.

[HikerMom58]

I'm only gonna interject here cause I heard my name, and for no other reason...than to say.

While Dakota Joe may not have tons of hiking experience or miles (neither do I) He's a grown Man with real world experience, is extremely articulate and has something that is very refreshing to me in younger folks...Balls, the essence of the human spirit, good ole testosterone (makes us do crazy stuff sometimes) that drives a person to do what they do. That said, I don't think for one minute that Joe would quit his adventure he's on for anybody's opinion of timing, gear, ego, or even lack of comforts...it's just not gonna happen, he's a Man on a mission, he has a goal, a plan, anything else would be just lip service with a smile and a thank you very much and I'll send ya a post card. I truly believe that. He's a smart bright guy. I' think he'll make it.
Go Joe Go

that said, I'm sure he'll lay up in town when the stuff hits the fan, be crazy not to. I would!

Hey RS.. I'll respond back to you. It's nice to hear your opinion of DJ. I'm truly glad that he has found a group that believes in him. Everyone needs to surround themselves with people like that!

Having said that, I'm sure you can understand why some would not be be willing to do that & would think it's just plain foolish not listen to the wise counsel of others.

Being bull headed, like you describe him, can either work for him (like you said) or against him. I am hoping it works for him but am bracing for it to work against him. I have a feeling that's how a lot of others may feel as well.

It's fun to share our different thoughts and opinions.

I still think you are a very agreeable person, it's refreshing to have you around.

[rocketsocks]

Hey RS.. I'll respond back to you. It's nice to hear your opinion of DJ. I'm truly glad that he has found a group that believes in him. Everyone needs to surround themselves with people like that!

Having said that, I'm sure you can understand why some would not be be willing to do that & would think it's just plain foolish not listen to the wise counsel of others.

Being bull headed, like you describe him, can either work for him (like you said) or against him. I am hoping it works for him but am bracing for it to work against him. I have a feeling that's how a lot of others may feel as well.

It's fun to share our different thoughts and opinions.

I still think you are a very agreeable person, it's refreshing to have you around.

I can't say it's bull headed...just strong willed, and to be honest, I don't really know him, just going by what he's written and making an inference based on that alone. I just know for me, if it's cold out I'll go inside, but sometimes I'll go outside, and if my hand is burning I'll take it out of the fire...I gotta think most people would do the same.

But yes not all feel this way, many like to see a person fail, many like to see a person try, and some just like to see what happens.

[rocketsocks]

"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had to, I'd be King!"

....and the King laughed, because he had to.

So true, I just had to....be queen.

...sometimes I'm the king, sometimes I'm the queen...but mostly I'm just a clown.get-attachment.jpg

[HikerMom58]

I can't say it's bull headed...just strong willed, and to be honest, I don't really know him, just going by what he's written and making an inference based on that alone. I just know for me, if it's cold out I'll go inside, but sometimes I'll go outside, and if my hand is burning I'll take it out of the fire...I gotta think most people would do the same.

But yes not all feel this way, many like to see a person fail, many like to see a person try, and some just like to see what happens.

Yeah, I understand. It's funny that you changed it to strong willed b/c I ALMOST used that word instead of bull headed. Hey- I understand strong willed. I have a pretty good one myself. I'm fairly teachable though so that really tempers my strong will.

I'm in the camp of not wanting to see anyone fail. If they come across as a bad arse with an attitude that really turns me off.

If I see someone attempting to do something that I know will most likely fail for such and such reasons, I have to share with them. After I share with them, I feel at peace with myself. Then, I remain available. I watch to see what happens to them with my hands over my face peering at them between my slightly open fingers. (word picture, lol)

[Dakota Joe]

Interesting reading material. Just because a person does not choose to speak in a certain form does not mean they have not read, taken into account, and learned valuable lessons.
I apologize for not having a smart phone and not being able to ask pertinent questions except at times when a computer is readily available. Let's Remember what Cato The Elder said: "I think the first virtue is to restrain the tongue; he approaches nearest the gods who knows to be silent, even though he is in the right." Not familiar with Cato? This is not some movie reference. Just google Marcus Porcius Cato. Just because I have not been verbal does not mean I have not been there, silent, in the shadows of this forest filled with friend and foe, watching, reading, learning. You will not hear much come out of my mouth, you will not read much that dribbles from my brain to my fingers and into the keys to form words that could be written with such eloquence, and you will never hear me ever put down another human being, demean, insult, or pass judgmental opinions. With that being said, I bid you all good day, Friend or foe, it does not matter to me, I thank you all for your input.

[hikerboy57]

this thread was about taking personal responsibility.
people will continue to take risks.i hike solo i will continue to take risks. i will look to manage those risks as best i can, and there stands the chance that one day i may need to be rescued. thats what sar guys do they rescue people. if everyone just stayed home in bad weather, there would be no reason to have sar in the first place. its what they do.

the point is it is ones personal responsibility to understand those risks before going on a hike.hike safe.

just in case you missed it, here it is again:
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=h...nsibility-code

[HikerMom58]

Interesting reading material. Just because a person does not choose to speak in a certain form does not mean they have not read, taken into account, and learned valuable lessons.
I apologize for not having a smart phone and not being able to ask pertinent questions except at times when a computer is readily available. Let's Remember what Cato The Elder said: "I think the first virtue is to restrain the tongue; he approaches nearest the gods who knows to be silent, even though he is in the right." Not familiar with Cato? This is not some movie reference. Just google Marcus Porcius Cato. Just because I have not been verbal does not mean I have not been there, silent, in the shadows of this forest filled with friend and foe, watching, reading, learning. You will not hear much come out of my mouth, you will not read much that dribbles from my brain to my fingers and into the keys to form words that could be written with such eloquence, and you will never hear me ever put down another human being, demean, insult, or pass judgmental opinions. With that being said, I bid you all good day, Friend or foe, it does not matter to me, I thank you all for your input.

Dakota Joe... You just seem like you want attention. Usually people just go out and hike the trail for themselves. You seem to want to make a big production out of it. I don't understand where you are coming from.....

[hikerboy57]

hike safe joe
http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=h...nsibility-code