Shovel - keep it or ditch it?

[Rain Man]

Sure why not,get rid of the shovel,and use your chop sticks "in Lou of",and why your all about saving weight,get rid of the TP too,use leaves "in Lou of".

Who is this "Lou" you are referring to?!

Or, do you mean in lieu of, if you like Latin? Or maybe, if you prefer English, in loo of?! LOL

RainMan

.

[Rain Man]

I carry an MSR Blizzard tent stake. It digs well plus doubles as an extra stake for snow or soft soil. The weight is .7 oz.

DITTO on the multi-function MSR Blizzard tent stake. You can get "short" or "long." Short if you want to save even more weight.

RainMan

.

[Bearpaw]

Trekking poles dig great cat holes.

[Blissful]

I'm assuming this shovel is for digging a cathole to do your business. After having stepped on a big turd, and seeing many others in various areas I wish more people would carry a shovel cause apparently the sticks/boot method ain't working for some.

At any rate, I bought a titanium Big Dig from QiWiz (I think that's his username on WB...and I think he still sells them), and at 0.6 oz there's no reason not to carry a small shovel.

Good observation. Not fun to stumble upon hikers who do not bury waste properly. Please carry a trowel or adequate digging tool of some kind.

[rocketsocks]

Who is this "Lou" you are referring to?!

Or, do you mean in lieu of, if you like Latin? Or maybe, if you prefer English, in loo of?! LOL

RainMan

.

I just got schooled,thanks Rain Man your a great teacher!

[atmilkman]

I just got schooled,thanks Rain Man your a great teacher!

Here I thought you were saying in Lou of, in lieu of Coach Lou who has a set of titanium chopsticks. (lol) oops steel that is.

[rocketsocks]

Here I thought you were saying in Lou of, in lieu of Coach Lou who has a set of titanium chopsticks. (lol) oops steel that is.

Nope,just a dumb ass,bad speeler.

[hikerboy57]

Im prettysure speeler has2 Ls.

[Wise Old Owl]

My reply when this was asked in February:

Have had the same orange one for at least 20 years. It seldom stays home. I'm a bit of an explorer and use it to dig up rocks, or roots or plants or critters. Or sometimes use it to destroy and spread those nasty fire rings that others leave in prime tent spots. Get a lot more use out of it it than the swiss army knives and leatherman tools I have given away.I should add, since you are an "utlralighter" of course you shouldn't carry one. Or any thing else that might add a gram to your life.

Very telling WM... something we have in common! good reply.

[Wombat Farm]

ditch it..use your foot or a stick to dig...seriously unless you're in terrain with rock hard sand (not anywhere on the AT) no need - just another piece of gear being peddled.

[rocketsocks]

Ya know,you could still bring it,just cut the handle off,there by satisfying your craving for weight savings,and just use it like a scrapper.

[rhjanes]

I checked REI and they state the weight of a MSR snow stake at 1 OZ. The titanium digger is .4 OZ for the smaller one. It has a hole in the handle, so could be used as a stake also. Seems like the digger could be lighter and weigh less.
Yes, a stick (subject to breakage while in use) could be used. A Heal, also works for no more weight (but not a stake either). A hiking pole works, won't break, but is like a stick (takes more time) to get a decent hole.
Did I miss something?

[daddytwosticks]

Just use your spork to dig a cathole. Remember, each gear item should have more than one purpose!

[Wise Old Owl]

I checked REI and they state the weight of a MSR snow stake at 1 OZ. The titanium digger is .4 OZ for the smaller one. It has a hole in the handle, so could be used as a stake also. Seems like the digger could be lighter and weigh less.
Yes, a stick (subject to breakage while in use) could be used. A Heal, also works for no more weight (but not a stake either). A hiking pole works, won't break, but is like a stick (takes more time) to get a decent hole.
Did I miss something?

No you didn't - Welcome to WB.... There is an element here to stuffing as much somewhat useful super UL uber stuff in a pack and still claim its under 13 lbs.....

[Berserker]

I told myself to keep my mouth shut after my first post, but I just couldn’t hold my tongue on this one. The heel and/or stick method is often discussed flippantly on here, and I don’t think a lot of folks really use it or put any thought into the actual details of digging an adequate hole using that method. Sure there’s a lot of soft dirt on the AT, but there is also a lot of soil that is compact, rooty and/or rocky. Heck I have had issues digging in some soil using my shovel. So I suspect that some of the heel/stick hole diggers are half-a$$ing their hole digging, and that junk ain’t really getting buried. Plus, throw in some rain or other undesirable weather, and I’m sure some of our heel/stick hole diggers aren’t doing a quality job. And you know what, it’s fine as long as you go waaaaay out into the woods (away from the trail, shelters and water sources) and don’t leave any TP, but doing that junk near the trail just ain’t cool. So I’m asking that the less skilled non-shovel users please consider just getting a shovel at least until you’ve mastered the heel, stick or whatever other tool you plan to use. I'm getting really tired of running into randomly placed fecal matter.

[flemdawg1]

You're over-thinking it. It doesn't take that big a hole to bury some poop. Think more in terms of a hole 6-8" deep and and 2-3"diameter. Poop near hole, push the excretion and tp into the hole w/ a stick (packing it in some w/ stick).

[rocketsocks]

I told myself to keep my mouth shut after my first post, but I just couldn’t hold my tongue on this one. The heel and/or stick method is often discussed flippantly on here, and I don’t think a lot of folks really use it or put any thought into the actual details of digging an adequate hole using that method. Sure there’s a lot of soft dirt on the AT, but there is also a lot of soil that is compact, rooty and/or rocky. Heck I have had issues digging in some soil using my shovel. So I suspect that some of the heel/stick hole diggers are half-a$$ing their hole digging, and that junk ain’t really getting buried. Plus, throw in some rain or other undesirable weather, and I’m sure some of our heel/stick hole diggers aren’t doing a quality job. And you know what, it’s fine as long as you go waaaaay out into the woods (away from the trail, shelters and water sources) and don’t leave any TP, but doing that junk near the trail just ain’t cool. So I’m asking that the less skilled non-shovel users please consider just getting a shovel at least until you’ve mastered the heel, stick or whatever other tool you plan to use. I'm getting really tired of running into randomly placed fecal matter.

Yep,I agree.That's why I poop in a gofer hole,and if you get down real low on it,when the gofer runs out,and brushes by you,well ...it's like poopin in tall cotton.Seriouly though,I do agree with ya 100% anyone that say's they are digging a approved scat hole using the heel and poll as a hole,is probably not doing a bang up job!You can't cut through the duff,and root mat,with a trowel,with out putting in some serious effort,So why peeps keep bull sitting,is just that....Bull sit.good call there Berserker.

[rocketsocks]

And another thing,I've heard many say they have knee problems and some even get off trail because of it.But I have never heard someone say,"Well I was heeling a hole,and meshed up my knee",cause we all know,if your driving you heel backwards,your knees aren't gonna last very long.again no bull sit.

[QiWiz]

I told myself to keep my mouth shut after my first post, but I just couldn’t hold my tongue on this one. The heel and/or stick method is often discussed flippantly on here, and I don’t think a lot of folks really use it or put any thought into the actual details of digging an adequate hole using that method. Sure there’s a lot of soft dirt on the AT, but there is also a lot of soil that is compact, rooty and/or rocky. Heck I have had issues digging in some soil using my shovel. So I suspect that some of the heel/stick hole diggers are half-a$$ing their hole digging, and that junk ain’t really getting buried. Plus, throw in some rain or other undesirable weather, and I’m sure some of our heel/stick hole diggers aren’t doing a quality job. And you know what, it’s fine as long as you go waaaaay out into the woods (away from the trail, shelters and water sources) and don’t leave any TP, but doing that junk near the trail just ain’t cool. So I’m asking that the less skilled non-shovel users please consider just getting a shovel at least until you’ve mastered the heel, stick or whatever other tool you plan to use. I'm getting really tired of running into randomly placed fecal matter.

+1

You can use your boot heel to scrape leaf debris away from the place you'll actually dig your cathole, but in many locations I defy anyone to actually dig a hole with a boot, on or off your foot. In soft duff you probably can do it.

As far as using a stick, a hiking pole, or a tent peg, my own experience is that I can sometimes loosen soil OK with one of these pointy implements, but to dig a hole means using something to scoop out the loosened soil. Your hand will work, but these pointy implements don't work that well. I also prefer relatively cleaner hands myself.

So I wonder why the LNT info you can read in many places emphasizes the use of a trowel. Maybe because that's what works the best to dig a real, honest cathole that you would be proud to show someone that you were teaching how to go in the woods.

Just sayin'. I'm sure there are other opinions out there.

[Wise Old Owl]

Hell I thought ya lift a PA rock and poop under it... no heel required.