a good first aid kit (Health and Safety)

[orangebug]

Actually, your friend is a poster child for why more offices and churches need to keep AEDs available and on display. If one had been handy, your friend's coworkers would have been able to convert the arrhythmia quicker with less brain injury.

But on the trail, a sudden death is likely to remain a sudden death. I would not like to have folks feel guilty over a compulsion to "never give up" in an impossible situation.

[berninbush]

My friend's part-time job is with my church. (He was at his consulting job when the attack happened.) The ironic thing was that the church had just gotten its shipment of AED's and they were sitting on his desk when his attack happened. If he'd been there, they could have used one.

His consulting-job office ordered AEDs and got people trained on how to use them after that incident.

I would agree that if you're on the trail and been doing CPR for, say, half an hour with no results, it's time to quit and not feel guilty. But I was protesting to the post from 2005 that suggested, if you haven't gotten a heartbeat in four minutes it's time to give up because the person will have no quality of life. My friend has no permanent brain damage that I know of... he's leading a normal life and he was around for the birth of his granddaughter last week. If he'd been out in the woods, CPR might not have saved him... I don't know if they could have gotten a heartbeat without a defibrillator... but it would have been worth the effort at least.

[Appalachian Tater]

There are so many uses for charcoal. Mix a little charcoal and water w/ sillium seed and you've got yourself a poultice that will help bites, cuts, rash and so many other things.
Just mix charcoal and sillium seed (both powdered, cheap and very light) in a zip-loc baggie, let it 'set-up' into gel, then cut the edges of baggie and apply. A little duct tape will hold this on if you want to or need to keep on-the- move.
Charcoal is also great for many stomach issues, flu, etc...just a spoonful does it. I've also heard of dentists that use charcoal to brush teeth.
These items can be purchased at health food stores and most drug stores.

It's really bad practice to introduce foreign objects such as charcoal and psyllium seeds into open wounds.

[Odd Thomas]

It's really bad practice to introduce foreign objects such as charcoal and psyllium seeds into open wounds.

Unless it's powdered pig bladder

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7354458.stm

[mudhead]

It's really bad practice to introduce foreign objects such as charcoal and psyllium seeds into open wounds.

Puff balls or spider webs will help stop bleeding. I vote for pressure, but could not resist throwing that out there.

[oops56]

I keep cayenne pepper in my shop and car it stop bleeding and help heal plus many more things it can do do a search on it. don't leave home whiteout it

[Jim Adams]

My friend's part-time job is with my church. (He was at his consulting job when the attack happened.) The ironic thing was that the church had just gotten its shipment of AED's and they were sitting on his desk when his attack happened. If he'd been there, they could have used one.

His consulting-job office ordered AEDs and got people trained on how to use them after that incident.

I would agree that if you're on the trail and been doing CPR for, say, half an hour with no results, it's time to quit and not feel guilty. But I was protesting to the post from 2005 that suggested, if you haven't gotten a heartbeat in four minutes it's time to give up because the person will have no quality of life. My friend has no permanent brain damage that I know of... he's leading a normal life and he was around for the birth of his granddaughter last week. If he'd been out in the woods, CPR might not have saved him... I don't know if they could have gotten a heartbeat without a defibrillator... but it would have been worth the effort at least.

Alot of times it is CPR and dead.
There is no reason to do CPR for hours and actually the average person would have trouble doing it for longer than about 10-15 minutes. After that time the rescuer is usually too tired to do it effectively anyway. I doubt that it is useful in the woods for longer than 15 minutes and you are almost always never going to have a paramedic there with a defib and cardiac drugs within that time frame anyway BUT, without CPR, you only have dead!

geek

[Homer&Marje]

Personally I went to Ocean state job lot ( a discount merchandise store) and for 2.49 i got a 46 pc med kit in a waterproof plastic case, 1 lb or less and it came with gauze pads and tape which i used last friday, dont forget compression for wounds folks otherwise running with an open wound like this to a road could make you bleed out pretty severely.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/show...&cutoffdate=-1

[buzzamania]

Excellent tips on first-aid kits. I also include extra safety pins (they can be used as sutures for lack of anything else) and a small tube of Super Glue for small cuts and lanced blisters, it really works good in addition for other repairs as well.

P.S. I have been told that if one is bitten by a snake to kill it for identification purposes for there are different species of each and venom may or may not have been injected but take no chance and seek professional help ASAP.

With all the talk about the snake bite scenarios, what about the snake bite kits with the suction and antivenom stuff in it. They are small and aren't terribly weighty.

Oh and yeah. . . if a snake bites me he's going to die regardless.

[Chance09]

With all the talk about the snake bite scenarios, what about the snake bite kits with the suction and antivenom stuff in it. They are small and aren't terribly weighty.

Oh and yeah. . . if a snake bites me he's going to die regardless.

I just took a Wilderness first aid class and they recommended not using snake bit kits. I forgot exactly what they said but it was something about just damaging the tissue more. I also know that snake bit kits seldom remove more than 10% of the venom.

Killing the snake would also be a bad idea for you yourself to do if you were bitten because you want to keep your pulse rate as low as possible slowing the spread of the poison and also elevate the bitten area.

Also correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there is only 2 poisonous snakes that your likely to encounter on the trail. Coral snakes and rattlers, so there's really no need to kill it because they're easy to identify. You can also tell by the bite.

Another good statistic is that snakes often don't inject venom when they bite. I think it's like 40% of the time or so.

[WalkingStick75]

I just took a Wilderness first aid class and they recommended not using snake bit kits. I forgot exactly what they said but it was something about just damaging the tissue more. I also know that snake bit kits seldom remove more than 10% of the venom.

Killing the snake would also be a bad idea for you yourself to do if you were bitten because you want to keep your pulse rate as low as possible slowing the spread of the poison and also elevate the bitten area.

Also correct me if i'm wrong but i believe there is only 2 poisonous snakes that your likely to encounter on the trail. Coral snakes and rattlers, so there's really no need to kill it because they're easy to identify. You can also tell by the bite.

Another good statistic is that snakes often don't inject venom when they bite. I think it's like 40% of the time or so.

Snake bite kits use to come with a small razor to open up between the bite before you used the suction cups. People would cut too much, too deep, probably raise your heart beat just doing the cutting and like Chance09 stated only a 40% chance venom was even injected.

Question? I know coral snakes are bad news, rattlers at least those in Michigan don't pose a real threat in that no "healthy" person has ever died from a Michigan rattler. Different along the AT?

[Chance09]

Question? I know coral snakes are bad news, rattlers at least those in Michigan don't pose a real threat in that no "healthy" person has ever died from a Michigan rattler. Different along the AT?

I know the difference is that Coral Snakes poison is a neurotoxin (spelling?), which can actually shut down some of the bodies vital functions. Rattlers poison isn't a neurotoxin so it's no where near as dangerous.

Another thing to note is that Coral snakes don't have fangsso they don't inject their poison. They just have rows of small sharp teeth and their poison is in the saliva. I think, and don't quote me on this, that if you were bitten and quickly grabed the snake behind the head and got him off of you, you could probabbly prevent a lot of poison entering your body as opposed to freaking out and not getting him off immediatly.

[JAK]

Combined First Aid / Repair Kit + field manual or Aide-Mémoire.

I like the idea of combining first-aid kit, repair kit. I recently bought a very good book on basic outdoor first aid from Scouts Canada. I feel the need to brush up on my first aid, and now that my daughter is in Guides we can work on it together for her merit badge, and because its the smart thing to do of course.


Anyhow, I would suggest people include a small notebook that they prepare themselves. They can write it in Microsoft Word and the PDF it or whatever, and then print it in a smaller size to take backpacking. It could include more than just first aid information, and it could have a few extra pages for notes. Good project for kids and adults alike. In basic training we had something like that called an Aide-Mémoire.

OK. Here's the think. For major breaks, sprains, cuts, burns, your not going to fit everything you need in a backpacking sized First Aid Kit, so its important to plan ahead and be prepared to use other parts of you kit, like blue foam pad, cord, socks, and perhaps alcohol fuel if your willing to pay the tax to carry everclear. Anyhow, most things could be thought out ahead of time customized to the gear you carry, and you could write the instructions out in your own Aide-Mémoire, perhaps with diagrams, and you could even practice them now and then, fun thing to do with kids.

What 9 year old daughter wouldn't want play "Dad's Daily Trauma"?

[pure_mahem]

Great idea JAK! You could make them really small and laminate them so they were credit card size. I think it would be a good place to list other important survival information for how to determine direction with out a compass and nots that you may need in a survival situation.

On the coral snake thing I'm not sure but what your saying about small tiny rows of teeth sounds like a hila monster lizard in the desert which is actually a bacterial poisoning system.

Do they make and AED the size of an iPod, that would be a really handy piece of kit. JK, I could just see some dim wit hooking themself up to it and saying watch this and end up dead. It would be something good for Forest Rangers and the like to have though.

Other question could you improvise one out of something on the trail in an emergency situation?

Also if you freaking had to cut your arm off in a dire situation, how would you go about it so that you didn't end up bleeding to death? I mean you are after all severing a main artery when your doing this.

[Wags]

you'd have to tourniquet it before cutting i guess. i like the idea of printing and laminating a little "oh ****" card. it's easy to sit here at the desk and think of all the right things to do, but it's a whoe different ballgame when it's an emergency and it's you :O

[kettish]

I'm a seperated Army medic, so my first aid kit is a bit more...er... "extensive" than the others listed here!!! (Partly because I can get my still-Active Duty medic husband to yoink some supplies for me when I need them!)

-GLOVES GLOVES GLOVES (sorry can't help myself!)
-alcohol pads
-fabric band aids (only a few of them; sometimes I manage to cut myself in places that get a lot of friction, like between my toes or *shudders* on my nipple once!)
-gauze (not entirely necessary if it's only people, but when you hike with dogs you want the gauze pads, plus some dressing so that you aren't taping directly on the animal's fur)
-occlusive dressing
-iodine (cheaper than alcohol pads since the Army's phasing it out and DH can get it easily)
-moleskin
-epipen
-medical tape
-sam splints-one large and one 3-pk of small
-emergency foil blanket thingy
-Israeli dressing
-hemorrage control compression pad
-CAT tourniquet
-saline locks
-syringes for washing out deep wounds
-instant cold packs
-wound closure bandages
-loperamide (2mg)
-ibuprofen (200mg and 800mg)
-naproxen (220mg and 500mg)
-acetaminophen (500mg)
-diphenhydramine hcl (25mg)

That's not counting my personal medications. I have some neuropathy issues leftover from being in and that's why I have the different painkillers. I've also got a few things I'd like to add, like some coban for the dogs, muzzle, and a thermometer. And I think I'll end up paying for some hemostats or some quickclot, just because I LIKE being prepared. And it's so freakin' SWEET.

Yep, just call me Doc and be done with it. It's like I never left the military... *sigh*

[oops56]

I'm a seperated Army medic, so my first aid kit is a bit more...er... "extensive" than the others listed here!!! (Partly because I can get my still-Active Duty medic husband to yoink some supplies for me when I need them!)

-GLOVES GLOVES GLOVES (sorry can't help myself!)
-alcohol pads
-fabric band aids (only a few of them; sometimes I manage to cut myself in places that get a lot of friction, like between my toes or *shudders* on my nipple once!)
-gauze (not entirely necessary if it's only people, but when you hike with dogs you want the gauze pads, plus some dressing so that you aren't taping directly on the animal's fur)
-occlusive dressing
-iodine (cheaper than alcohol pads since the Army's phasing it out and DH can get it easily)
-moleskin
-epipen
-medical tape
-sam splints-one large and one 3-pk of small
-emergency foil blanket thingy
-Israeli dressing
-hemorrage control compression pad
-CAT tourniquet
-saline locks
-syringes for washing out deep wounds
-instant cold packs
-wound closure bandages
-loperamide (2mg)
-ibuprofen (200mg and 800mg)
-naproxen (220mg and 500mg)
-acetaminophen (500mg)
-diphenhydramine hcl (25mg)

That's not counting my personal medications. I have some neuropathy issues leftover from being in and that's why I have the different painkillers. I've also got a few things I'd like to add, like some coban for the dogs, muzzle, and a thermometer. And I think I'll end up paying for some hemostats or some quickclot, just because I LIKE being prepared. And it's so freakin' SWEET.

Yep, just call me Doc and be done with it. It's like I never left the military... *sigh*

Lokk up cayenne pepper pore on a bleeding cut it stop it good for other things it get the heart to going also

[kettish]

I don't mind trying natural remedies at home, where there's access to emergency care (and clean running water, and more supplies, and an ambulance, and...) but for field work I prefer modern methods. No offense but modern medicine (while not much good for anything else) is TOPS at emergency and trauma work!

Now, long term...I end up at the acupuncturist every time.

[atraildreamer]

What could be included in a first aid kit for dental emergencies? Say you cracked a tooth, or lost a filling, and were a couple of days away from a dentist?

[Connie]

I have seen little dental kits at Rite Aid and at REI for packing a broken tooth.