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  1. #81
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    And, as I understand it, this a daily preventative anyway - if I run into someone having a heat attack, getting them off the mountain and knowing CPR will probably be more important than trying to give someone in the processes of having one a couple of aspirin anyway
    From what I am understanding, knowing CPR won't be important at all, unless there is a difibrillator nearby. I am eager to be corrected, but some of the informed posts make it sound like CPR in the backcountry is an excersize in futility.

    On the otherhand, giving an aspirin can help the survival rate, or at least lessen the damage of a mild heart attack. Or not?
    Last edited by rickb; 12-15-2005 at 12:13.

  2. #82
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Should I take aspirin during a heart attack or stroke?

    The more important thing to do if any heart attack warning signs occur is to call 9-1-1 immediately. Don't do anything before calling 9-1-1. In particular, don't take an aspirin, then wait for it to relieve your pain. Don't postpone calling 9-1-1. Aspirin won't treat your heart attack by itself.

    After you call 9-1-1, the 9-1-1 operator may recommend that you take an aspirin. He or she can make sure that you don't have an allergy to aspirin or a condition that makes using it too risky. If the 9-1-1 operator doesn't talk to you about taking an aspirin, the emergency medical technicians or the physician in the Emergency Department will give you an aspirin if it's right for you. Research shows that getting an aspirin early in the treatment of a heart attack, along with other treatments EMTs and Emergency Department physicians provide, can significantly improve your chances of survival.

    Taking aspirin isn't advised during a stroke, because not all strokes are caused by blood clots. Most strokes are caused by clots, but some are caused by ruptured blood vessels. Taking aspirin could potentially make these bleeding strokes more severe.
    American Heart Association (n.d.) "Aspirin in Heart Attack and Stroke Prevention". Retrieved December 15, 2005 from http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4456
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  3. #83
    Donating Member/AT Class of 2003 - The WET year
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickboudrie
    From what I am understanding, knowing CPR won't be important at all, unless there is a difibrillator nearby. I am eager to be corrected, but some of the informed posts make it sound like CPR in the backcountry is an excersize in futility.

    On the otherhand, giving an aspirin can help the survival rate, or at least lessen the damage of a mild heart attack. Or not?
    ======================================
    Been years since I practiced but as a former paramedic (who stays pretty current) I would tell you that CPR and Aspirin are mutually exclusive as emergency approaches with regard to a heart attack. Heart attack victims who remain conscious rarely require or would benefit from CPR but may be well served by an AED and/or aspirin. On the other hand, cramming an aspirin down the throat of someone who's heart has stopped and who is not breathing (cardiac arrest) IS an exercise in futility. While the odds of success with CPR in the backcountry are low, in the event of a cardiac arrest I would submit that it is not an exercise in futility.

    'Slogger
    Last edited by Footslogger; 12-15-2005 at 12:39.
    The more I learn ...the more I realize I don't know.

  4. #84
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    When you say that its not futile, is that becuase the person's heart might start beating again as the result of the CPR, or because your efforts might buy enough time for a paramedic such as yourself to arrive with a difibrillator?

    Or both?

    (BTW, if its me lying there, I'd welcome the CPR no matter what!)

  5. #85
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock
    American Heart Association (n.d.) "Aspirin in Heart Attack and Stroke Prevention". Retrieved December 15, 2005 from http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4456
    Other news for:
    Aspirin

    (HealthScoutNews) -- Experts advise that if you think you're having a heart attack, the first thing you should do is chew an aspirin tablet.

    But because aspirin starts to break up as soon as it touches your tongue, why chew it instead of swallowing it?

    Here's why, according to the American Journal of Cardiology . Researchers at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School recruited 12 volunteers and measured the length of time it took for the aspirin to inhibit blood clotting, which is the reason to take it after a heart attack.

    They found that swallowing a whole aspirin takes 12 minutes to have any effect on your blood's clotting time; drinking a liquid remedy containing aspirin takes seven minutes to work, but chewing a regular aspirin tablet begins showing benefits in only five minutes.

    Also:

    A heart attack is an event that results in permanent heart damage or death. It is also known as a myocardial infarction, because part of the heart muscle (myocardium) may literally die (infarct). A heart attack occurs when one of the coronary arteries becomes severely or totally blocked, usually by a blood clot. When the heart muscle does not receive the oxygen–rich blood that it needs, it will begin to die. The severity of a heart attack usually depends on how much of the heart muscle is injured or dies during the heart attack.

    Someone’s chance of surviving a heart attack depends on the treatment that is given within the first hour of the heart attack. Immediate treatment for a heart attack should always include professional emergency medical intervention, including a call to 9–1–1 if the patient lives in an area with such access. While waiting for help to arrive or on the way to the hospital, patients are often told to begin chewing aspirin, a blood clot inhibitor. It is thought that taking aspirin while experiencing a heart attack can decrease the risk of death by about 25 percent.
    Last edited by weary; 12-15-2005 at 14:01.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickboudrie
    When you say that its not futile, is that becuase the person's heart might start beating again as the result of the CPR, or because your efforts might buy enough time for a paramedic such as yourself to arrive with a difibrillator?

    Or both?

    (BTW, if its me lying there, I'd welcome the CPR no matter what!)
    ===========================================
    The former more than the latter (but not totally) Rick. I'm going on the belief that the odds are slim that a medically trained first responder might show up with an AED. Assuming you're talking about me being the person on-the-scene I would say that in the case of a full cardiac arrest the chances exist (albeit slim) that CPR could trigger a restarting of the patient's heart/breathing. THEN, I might consider crushing and administering an asprin if I had one.

    ...and like you, if I were the victim I would hope someone would give me the benefit of the doubt and initiate CPR.

    'Slogger
    The more I learn ...the more I realize I don't know.

  7. #87
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    If it is me on the ground with a cardiac arrest, offer a sharp thump to the chest, and no more than 4 minutes of CPR. Afterwards, I'd prefer to be DRT (dead right there) rather than in a persistant vegetative state - assuming you were so lucky as to restart my heart a bit later.

  8. #88
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    [quote=weary]Other news for:
    Aspirin


    "Someone抯 chance of surviving a heart attack depends on the treatment that is given within the first hour of the heart attack. Immediate treatment for a heart attack should always include professional emergency medical intervention, including a call to 9𢴏 if the patient lives in an area with such access. "

    And my point is that on the AT, unless you are close to a well traveled roadcrossing, or very lucky, you will not be getting "professional emergency medical intervention" within the first hour, and if your cellphone results are like mine, your "call to 9-1-1" will be responded to by your phone with "no service". So, more or less, take and chew your aspirin if you like, but making your way out of the woods if you survive the initial attack is what will keep you alive.
    Cutman
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy
    THIS IS WHAT I OBJECTED TO....most doctors advise for males over 50 to take an aspirin per day for prevention...I had a heart attack and have to do this, so for a week trip I take 7 aspirin...how much does that weigh ?

    In defense you say you carry a 30 pound pack fully stocked for four days...why? Read the "What's the weight of your big four ? " Adhere, and you will be able to carry a few extras and still be under your overweighed existing pack weight !

    NOW you STATE that you carry a FIRST AID KIT (and other uses) consisting of baby wipes and toilet paper...why both and not one...neither will save a life, yet serve the same purpose. Comfort Item ?

    We also carry compeed patches and a bandana...why both ? Comfort Item ?

    Vaseline and chapstick...why both ? Comfort Item ?

    Aleve and tylenol...why not just aspirin...dual purpose !

    Benedryl tablets...why ?...use the cell phone or you will be in town in a couple of days...NO MEDICAL EMERGENCY ! Comfort item ?

    If minor stuff is minor, and it only takes a day or so to go into town...why do you take the stuff you carry... and why do you object to ME, with prior heart attack history, taking a few aspirin...and my pack weight lower than yours to begin with ?
    To reply my big 4 = 9.5 lbs. I like to carry 5lb food and 6lb water(call me crazy, but I hate being out of water). Yes, they are all comfort items -- that was the point, I concede I do carry some items for comfort, but they do not form an "essentials" first aid kit. The reason to carry tylenol and aleve is that they are different drugs. The tylenol is specifically a pain reliever whereas the aleve is an anti inflammatory, and is longer acting than aspirin. Both aspirin and tylenol have antipyretic (fever reducer) qualities, so by carrying a couple tylenol and aleve, one can better treat based on need. The two do have some potentiating effect on each other and can be taken together for added effect in pain relief. I would agree that you could chose Aspirin as a single drug alternative, but I prefer avoiding its side effects. Its a HYOH choice there.
    Cutman
    GA>ME 2000>2010..... Purist thruhiker in spirit, just with a lotta zeros during townstops;)

  10. #90
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug
    If it is me on the ground with a cardiac arrest, offer a sharp thump to the chest, and no more than 4 minutes of CPR. Afterwards, I'd prefer to be DRT (dead right there) rather than in a persistant vegetative state - assuming you were so lucky as to restart my heart a bit later.
    I'll second Orange Bug's suggestion. But I do plan to carry an aspirin to chew from now on. It won't help if I'm in cardiac arrest. But if I'm still conscious after a suspected heart attack an aspirin is unlikely to do any harm, and from all I can read probably will make survival a bit more likely.

    Anyway, eating an aspirin is about the only thing I can do on most hikes during that critical first hour.

    Weary

  11. #91
    Section Hiker 500 miles smokymtnsteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug
    If it is me on the ground with a cardiac arrest, offer a sharp thump to the chest, and no more than 4 minutes of CPR. Afterwards, I'd prefer to be DRT (dead right there) rather than in a persistant vegetative state - assuming you were so lucky as to restart my heart a bit later.

    right on OB!!! but I prefer a sharp thump to the temple...Please administer 15 percosets also. thier located in the stuff sack labeled 'emergency kit"

    Pass the Morphine Please!
    "I'd rather kill a man than a snake. Not because I love snakes or hate men. It is a question, rather, of proportion." Edward Abbey

  12. #92
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    May be common knowledge or I missed it in a thread but peptobismol tablets are excellent for controlling diarrhea as well as their more common use for an upset bubbly tummy. Never leave the country without them and will take them on any long hike.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhalbrook
    May be common knowledge or I missed it in a thread but peptobismol tablets are excellent for controlling diarrhea as well as their more common use for an upset bubbly tummy. Never leave the country without them and will take them on any long hike.
    I was under the impression that they were a preventative rather than a cure.
    (pepto bismal)
    Anyway, to reply to the original post on this thread, my first aid kit is duct tape and aspirin. I carry a needle and dental floss but consider it a repair kit for my gear rather than for my body but i guess i'd use it in a dire situation.
    I can't remember ever needing anything else although someone gave me neosporin once for a blister. Now i just use duct tape.

  14. #94
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    Default Benadryl-anti-histamine

    Benadryl is a life saving drug for anybody who has an allergic reaction. It works for peanut allergies as well as stings. It is often used as a "comfort" drug by people with minor respiratory allergies, but can be very powerful.
    In the southeast (NC) yellow jackets nest in the ground, and they can easily be disturbed. Unlike honey bees, they sting multiple times and in groups. They are attracted to sweet drinks. Often people will drink (soda/gatoraide) and get stung in the mouth or throat by one that climbed into the water bottle or soda can. I think on my next trip, in addition to the tablets, I'll also carry some liquid benadryl, which works well with swollen throats. First aid kits should carry items that will prevent/cure serious problems as a first priority.

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    Default Charcoal powder

    There are so many uses for charcoal. Mix a little charcoal and water w/ sillium seed and you've got yourself a poultice that will help bites, cuts, rash and so many other things.
    Just mix charcoal and sillium seed (both powdered, cheap and very light) in a zip-loc baggie, let it 'set-up' into gel, then cut the edges of baggie and apply. A little duct tape will hold this on if you want to or need to keep on-the- move.
    Charcoal is also great for many stomach issues, flu, etc...just a spoonful does it. I've also heard of dentists that use charcoal to brush teeth.
    These items can be purchased at health food stores and most drug stores.

  16. #96

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    Duct tape, 30ml syringe, 14g iv catheter, ibueprofin and nitro spray. Everything else can be improvised.

    geek

  17. #97

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    I always carry something for the runs, and something for constipation. My trail diet always seems to bind me up the first 3-4 days on the trail.

    Maybe that's TMI, but neither of those conditions is particularly conducive to making miles, so I like to have something on hand to deal with it.

    Although I don't get many blisters, duct tape doesn't stick to my feet, so I carry Band Aid brand blister bandages. The stuff used to be called Compeed. It's excellent. The only downside is, sometimes it gets stuck to your socks.
    'All my lies are always wishes" ~Jeff Tweedy~

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOWGLI View Post
    I always carry something for the runs, and something for constipation. My trail diet always seems to bind me up the first 3-4 days on the trail.
    Metamucil is good for the 2nd issue. Start taking it a couple of days before the hike. All you need is a teaspoon a day in a glass of water.

  19. #99
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Constipation is said to be the biggest factor in failures for mountain climbing. Our diets are usually pretty high in carbs and low in roughage. Dried fruit can help, as well as fiber cookies or Metamucil. Hydration is often a contributing factor.

  20. #100
    Pilgrim of Serendipity
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug View Post
    If it is me on the ground with a cardiac arrest, offer a sharp thump to the chest, and no more than 4 minutes of CPR. Afterwards, I'd prefer to be DRT (dead right there) rather than in a persistant vegetative state - assuming you were so lucky as to restart my heart a bit later.
    An older friend of mine suddenly fell down "dead" in his office last August from a heart attack. It wasn't the usual clogged artery issue... turned out later that he has some kind of weird electrical condition that makes his heart go into defib. His co-workers did CPR for 11 minutes with no visible results. They really thought he was gone, but they persisted until the paramedics arrived. The paramedics were able to re-start his heart with a defibrillator. He was in the hospital for several days, and suffered some short-term mental confusion and memory loss, but within weeks was back to "normal." After some trial and error they got the problem under control, and he's leading a pretty normal life (including the part-time job plus consulting work he was doing before).

    I guess you could say he's the poster child for "never give up." CPR isn't just about re-starting the heart; it also functions to keep blood and oxygen circulating to the body while the heart is stopped, by manually pumping it. Of course it's not as efficient or effective as the heart's normal operations, but it can keep your brain going a surprisingly long time. Good lesson to remember if you are with someone on the trail and their heart stops. The heart may not restart and the paramedics may not arrive in time, but you improve the odds if you do CPR.

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