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  1. #41
    Registered User neo's Avatar
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    i prefer making my own neo

  2. #42
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out what about cutman11's note would result in an unhappy Happy or Smokeymntsteve's wrath.

    His point was to prepare for those events that one can control and treat on the trail. Cardiovascular events are rare, and significant ones are not something likely to be managed with anything other than evacuation of the victim to ER or a telemetry bed. Few places on the AT will accommodate that action in the Golden Hour. Mild MI's are routinely asymptomatic, unless arrhythmia complicates - in which case it isn't "mild."

    And why didn't the best cardiologist at St. Joe's carry aspirin in his pocket? At least he was a good choice of racketball partner.

    There are many illnesses and injuries to occur on the trail. HYOH, even if you feel you must carry a cardiac and trauma unit on your back. Yet, consider the possibility that knowledge of gear and skills in improvisation may be more valuable.

  3. #43
    Registered User Seeker's Avatar
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    a superior "i'm a surgeon, i have saved lives, i am god, you peons don't know what you're talking about" attitude... that's what pissed them off...
    go back and read his post. all we need is a cell phone and to get out of the woods... no creams, antibiotics, no bandaids. oh, and we're not capable of self-diagnosing anything... only a fully trained doc can do that.

    i have an 90 year old (or so) grandmother. she has delivered over 4000 babies in a career that began in about 1934... for a long time, pretty much until the 1970s, she was the only "medical" person in her county. she rode a bike about 20-25 miles three days a week doing pre- and post-natal care, immunizations, and treating injuries and illnesses of all sorts, including bringing quinine to those with malaria. she also had folks walk up to her house for treatment. she did this until sometime in the early 1990s, when, after a fall, her children took away her bike. she was miserable for a few months. the 8 of them called my mom, the eldest, to ask what to do. she said ''you WHAT!? give it back to her!'' they did, and she continued for another few years until a stroke nailed her hard back in around 2002... she's up again, though not on the bike anymore. probably all of about 4'-10" tall... wonderful woman.

    she lives in southern brazil, santa caterina province. didn't go to medical school either... it would have helped, but she wasn't a doctor, just a half-trained nurse... but she knew when she saw something wrong, and how to treat it. i'm not saying she could diagnose a lot of weird diseases, but she could treat just about any physical injury, colds/flu/malaria, and that's mostly what her patients, and we hikers, face... but when visiting in 1972, and i got hit in the head and needed stitches, we went to the "new" clinic for that...she knew her limitations and my needs... i have no doubt she could have sewn me up.

    point is, hikers are a self reliant breed, and like to take care of little stuff to keep it from becoming bigger... rather smear our own neosporin on a popped blister than come to the ER at your hospital for treatment of a massive staph infection... rather have a big military battle dressing on hand than stick a torn off piece of nasty sweaty tshirt onto a puncture wound or laceration. rather take an imodium/pepto than dehydrate on the way out. no, i'm not a surgeon... just an old soldier. but to tell me to not carry a first aid kit of some sort, and rely on a cell phone, is insane vanity... come back down to the level of us shmucks who only make 35-50k a year, or the poor students who don't really make anything, neither of whom want to spend $200-$300 for an ER visit on our uninsured butts... (ftr, i do have insurance, but spent 8 months unemployed after losing my business and being forced into bankruptcy... been on food stamps, welfare, and medicare for my kids... i'm well back on my feet now, thank god, but i've not forgotten what it's like to live that way...)

    so, to have someone say 'you're not doing it right' is a bit annoying...

  4. #44
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker
    a superior "i'm a surgeon, i have saved lives, i am god, you peons don't know what you're talking about" attitude... that's what pissed them off.....
    So what's your point? He's a surgeon!


  5. #45
    Registered User CynJ's Avatar
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    I don't go to the ER or the doctor unless I am I half dead. Just not my thing -and as a fairly well read person with a lot of common sense I can certainly take care of most things all on my own. So needless to say -a good (not necessarily large however) first aid kit will be in my pack.

    The other thing anyone that hikes with their dog should keep in mind is that your pet might need first aid - so plan accordingly.
    ~CynJ

    "The reward of a thing well done is to have done it." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #46
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CynJ
    I don't go to the ER or the doctor unless I am I half dead. Just not my thing -and as a fairly well read person with a lot of common sense I can certainly take care of most things all on my own. So needless to say -a good (not necessarily large however) first aid kit will be in my pack...
    Which I think was Cutman's point. You consider the likely things that you are prepared to manage on trail, and know which one's are going to interrupt a hike. If you hike with others, you might find yourself in a position to have to tell someone else when they need help. Hypothermia is a good example.

    A first aid kit does not need to be extensive or heavy. One can use triple antibiotic cream for a number of problems - especially since it is usually a petroleum jelly base. Other things work well for cleaning minor wounds - diaper creme, bag balm, alcohol gel, iodine solution (Polar Pure) and others. As with anything else that you put in your pack, you plan for how to use your gear, and you consider multiple uses. Expect wounds to get dirty in the woods. Plan on how to clean and dress them, and when to take a zero day or two to allow a good cleanup and healing.

    Personally, I don't carry a specifically labeled first aid kit. Much of my toiletry and water gear doubles for first aid. Duct tape and gauze are my laceration/abrasion/blister treatments. Pepto and Gatorade powder are my GI cures. I carry my city medicines along with ID, contact and insurance info. Alcohol gel and iodine sanitize wounds. I carry diaper creme for a number of uses, but consider my sunscreen an acceptable lubricating lotion also. My pack stays, trekking poles, clothing, safety pins(on zipper pulls) and duct tape could be employed for any number of splints and slings. My sleeping bag and kitchen gear are my hypothermia treatments.

    But don't look for an official red packaged first aid kit. Don't look for a "how to" book on wilderness medicine. They aren't there. I think most folks work toward similar solutions, as discussed frequently on lightweight backpacking lists.

  7. #47
    Section Hiker 500 miles smokymtnsteve's Avatar
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    anyone who doesn't carry a little anti-biotic ointment, anti-acid, or a few "pain pills, band-aids, anti-histamine, immodium,,is an IDIOT,,,
    "I'd rather kill a man than a snake. Not because I love snakes or hate men. It is a question, rather, of proportion." Edward Abbey

  8. #48
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Idiots like the 2004 Red Sox, perhaps.

    Seriously, I never bothered with most any of that. On the otherhand, I do have an up to date tetnus shot, among other things. I suspect that puts me in a very small minority of people over 40.

    Probably doesn't make much of a difference, but it does give me a certain peace of mind and sense of control.

  9. #49
    Section Hiker 500 miles smokymtnsteve's Avatar
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    yeah..lots haven't and I wished I had a nickel for every "rolaids" I have given away on trail and a dollar for every "ace" bandage..

    famous last words.."but I NEVER get heartburn"
    "I'd rather kill a man than a snake. Not because I love snakes or hate men. It is a question, rather, of proportion." Edward Abbey

  10. #50
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymtnsteve
    anyone who doesn't carry a little anti-biotic ointment, anti-acid, or a few "pain pills, band-aids, anti-histamine, immodium,,is an IDIOT,,,
    It sounds like you have feelings about this.



    I respectfully disagree. Bandaids are largely useless weight that reassures children. Immodium is redundant to pepto-bismol. Anti-histamine is a comfort food. Pain pills cover a number of options, and I carry a few Naprosyns and a couple of C-IIs. Anti-biotic ointment is largely a comfort item, easily replaced by other options.

  11. #51

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    You wonder why there has been a vehement response to Cutman's silly dichotomy. It's his carry these, nothing else is needed philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutman11
    The only things besides common sense and a knowledge of first aid you NEED are: Duct tape for the penetrating stuff and blisters...bandana and hiking pole or sticks for splint. A cell phone or fellow hiker to call for help in the event of more severe injury is your best option. NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED
    While defending cutman, you suggest using [thus suggest carrying] triple antibiotic ointment,
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangebug
    One can use triple antibiotic cream for a number of problems - especially since it is usually a petroleum jelly base.
    and personally carry gauze, pepto, sunscreen, and diaper creme [which is for babies]. Suck it up if you get a little chafing, walk to town to get the creme, or take 2-4 zero days to let it heal on its own. Your carry list places you on the other side of the fence from cutman yet you
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangebug
    totally agree with
    [him].

  12. #52
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    You wonder why there has been a vehement response to Cutman's silly dichotomy. It's his carry these, nothing else is needed philosophy
    I think Cutman's post made a lot of sense. At least the way I was reading it.

    Some people carry thier first aid kits for comfort. Nothing wrong with that. Its easier to remove a splinter with a pair of tweezers and a needle that with a twist tie. Vitamine I can help me sleep better on a weekend hike. COMFORT IS GOOD.

    But that's obvious. Cutman's post recognizes that, too. The thing is, haven't we all seen people who spend a lot of time with thier first aid kits with the mistaken belief that the kit is actually going to increase thier SAFETY.

    If that was Cutman's point I think it was a good one. If you want to increase your safety on the Trail, don't look to your first aid kit. Take a first aid course. Carry maps that show how you can get to help quickly. Etc, Etc.

    The one thing I would like to know more about regarding health issues in the backcountry is about a potential heart attack-- especially given my age and family history. Understanding Cutman's fatalistic approach (you either die or you don't), I am wondering if there is anything I could/should do if me or my partner has angina / pain in the left arm and shoulder (and what about other signs) to increase my odds a few percentage points.

  13. #53
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    If you have a sudden death on the AT, you are DRT (Dead Right There). CPR, aspirin and anything you could bring will not improve that reality. If you have angina, you need to stop, take the Aspirin, check a pulse for arrhythmia, and determine if you have the stamina left to evacuate yourself of send for help. Your trip is over until the ER clears you.

    BTW, I don't carry triple antibiotic cream. I have carried a roll of gauze, diaper creme, sunscreen, DEET, Polar Pure, and Pepto tabs. I also carry Naprosyn, and 2 tabs of my favorite opiate analgesic. All of the before mentioned are considered "comfort gear." My necessities include duct tape; Alcohol gel; I carry safety pins on my zippers. I wear clothing, use trekking poles and have a backpack. I think a cell phone is pretty pointless. I do not question the intelligence of those who feel other items are a necessary part of their gear.

  14. #54

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    No Rick, I don't think we are reading it the same way.
    Quote Originally Posted by cutman11
    Really minor stuff doesnt NEED treating either. The only things besides common sense and a knowledge of first aid you NEED are: Duct tape for the penetrating stuff and blisters...bandana and hiking pole or sticks for splint. A cell phone or fellow hiker to call for help in the event of more severe injury is your best option. NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED.
    I'm going to read that last statement as shouting out that we don't need anything else besides duct tape, a bandana, splints, a cell phone, and a hiking partner. Rick, you shouldn't be treating that splinter, it's minor. Unless it gets infected, which is how I have found a couple of very small ones. But then I'd have an infection on my hands. I could use my cell to call for help or send my hiking partner. That's a bit drastic though.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutman11
    Now, you can say you want antibiotic creams, potions, lotions, bandaids, etc,etc, but actually, when a town is no more than a few days away (and closer if you hitch from a road crossing) you dont need anything except what will get you thru a few hours to the road.
    This is how I'm reading it Rick. Cutman is saying don't bother to treat minor injuries in the field either. Wait until you get to town. He says you need common sense, but not treating minor stuff and leaving it to when you get to town, in a few hours or a few days isn't sensible in my opinion. You treat the minor stuff so that it doesn't escalate into the major stuff. That's common sense.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug
    ...
    I do not question the intelligence of those who feel other items are a necessary part of their gear.
    OK. Could you extend that to not belittling folks for carrying band-aids. This might sound a little more sincere then.

  16. #56
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator
    OK. Could you extend that to not belittling folks for carrying band-aids. This might sound a little more sincere then.
    When I carry bandaids, it is to reassure children and city folks that I'm prepared. For real injuries, gauze or clean bandana and duct tape suffice. Bandaids are comfort items, seen as important only via marketing since we were babies.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug
    When I carry bandaids, it is to reassure children and city folks that I'm prepared. For real injuries, gauze or clean bandana and duct tape suffice. Bandaids are comfort items, seen as important only via marketing since we were babies.
    Gauze and duct tape remarkably mimics a bandaid. As you stated, gauze too is a comfort item. Sounds like you are reassuring yourself.

  18. #58
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Actually, gauze or the clean bandana are more than comfort. With something absorbant, you can make a reasonable pressure dressing with the duct tape keeping it adherent to skin. There is little likelihood of stopping real bleeding with a bandaid.

    Carry the bandaid if you wish. What is in your first aid kit is your business.

  19. #59
    LT '79; AT '73-'14 in sections; Donating Member Kerosene's Avatar
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    Band-aids just tend to fall off when you start sweating again. They're pretty worthless all in all.
    GA←↕→ME: 1973 to 2014

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerosene
    Band-aids just tend to fall off when you start sweating again. They're pretty worthless all in all.
    I have had the sport ones stick very well. Your experience may differ though. I've also had duct tape fall off when sweating. I had several rolls of cloth tape that stuck much better than duct tape. In fact, where duct tape failed. But again, YMMV.

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