Did he get the foodOriginally Posted by Wise Old Owl
BTW, you don't play dead with a black bear; you poke his eyes out
And kick him in the Ding Ding!Did he get the food
BTW, you don't play dead with a black bear; you poke his eyes out
I see that this thread is alive and well, three weeks after its inception. Let the record show that as of this date, the staff at Mountain Crossings has lost track of the number of folks whose tree-hanged food was liberated by bears either directly North or directly South of Neel Gap. The number of folks who reported food thefts while their goods were with them in their tents is zero. I will let readers draw their own conclusions from these statistics.
I wonder if that were to change if Yogi showed up for his meal and there were no easy to get hung food bags, but pleanty hiding in tents.
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I sleep with my food also but it's nice to camp with someone that hangs theirs as a decoy
I am not young enough to know everything.
By that reasoning, which I don't entirely argue against, you have to ask yourself: When will they start taking down hikers to get to their foodbags when they're hiking? Or how about when they stop for lunch and eat, when are bears going to start 'rolling' hikers for their lunch? Does this mean you can't carry a food item and your pocket and eat and walk?
Bears in that area need to re-learn who exactly is higher on the food chain.
Remember -its the drive by news... total lack of detail for short attention spanner theater....The information was there when the articles were first written.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/grizzly-bea...4#.T4HLTNkopP4
Yea Mother with cubs and you just changed it up to Grizzlies. I was talking about black.
Last edited by Wise Old Owl; 04-08-2012 at 13:33.
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
Bears that have no fear of humans are dangerous bears, and it's our fault they have no fear of us. Bears need to have a healthy fear of us if we are going to enjoy the outdoors. We need to instill this fear in them, and hunting pressure is one avenue. As someone else pointed out, the GSMNP is a perfect example of bears that arent' hunted and who have no fear of humans at all.
When there is a "problem" bear in my area the Va. Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries will trap it then basically "terrorize" the bear with fireworks, yelling, pepper spray and etc. to give the bear some negative feedback about humans, and this seems to be effective. We need to retrain bears that have no fear of humans, and it is entirely within our abilities to do it. Some bears have only had positive feedback with humans, with people feeding them on purpose, with bears raiding our garbage and hikers letting bears have their food.
We have created the problem and we can fix it very easily.
"You're a nearsighted, bitter old fool."
source: North American Bear Inststute
Myth: When bears lose their fear of people, they become more likely to attack source: North American Bear Inststute
http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/58-myth-when-bears-lose-their-fear-of-people-they-become-more-likely-to-attack.html
I am not young enough to know everything.
I agree with vamelungeon's post. I've read the little write-up before, but I do have some issues with it. My first issue is that this is written up by bear enthusiasts. I agree these guys are the experts, but even experts can become a little too enthusiastic in promoting their interests. I've seen this in a number of cases with wildlife experts that paint too rosey of a picture about certain predators and how they are not interested in eating humans, because it's not part of their normal diet. In general that may be true, but if a predator is hungry enough it's going to eat you, that's just natural. Even a black bear, which is not exactly what we think of as a predator will attack us as prey, if the circumstances are there. And the circumstances are not always a result of malnutrition, as some experts would have us believe.
I generally believe it's fairly safe to feed a black bear, as they say, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. What happens when you have a black bear that has lost its natural fear of humans and is hungry -- I mean really hungry? And you don't have food or you're a hiker that doesn't want to share your food? It seems to me that the cases they (bear experts) looked at involved people wanting to feed bears, bears that were not hungry (as in seriously hungry). But what if some hiker with food was eating lunch and did not want to share their food? I didn't see that scenario addressed.
It seems to me if you're going to feed bears and allow them to become habituated, then everyone must be on the same page, but of course that's not going to happen.
Even that link says this:
Conclusion
Bears that are used to seeing people are less likely to flee but are no more likely to come after people and hurt them than any other bear.
Does this mean people should approach wild bears and attempt to feed and pet them? Does it mean bears can live around people like pets?
No.
When people touch wild bears that are not used to being touched, the bears may shy away or occasionally nip or slap, causing minor injuries. Bear Center researchers do not consider these mild defensive reactions to be attacks.
In 40 years of working closely with wild black bears, Bear Center researchers have never had one come after them and hurt them.
BTW, I'll continue to keep my food in my tent.
Slogoen: I would never presume to tell someone what to with their tent, food, whatever. My contributions to this thread are merely to report facts, and in that I live in Neel Gap, i.e in Ground Zero for bear sightings, problems, etc. in North Georgia, this kinda puts me in a unique position. All I know is that there've been around 25 people I know of who had their food taken locally while it was tree-hung. The number of folks who've had their food taken while it was with them in their tents is zero. This includes people camping in crowds; it includes people camping alone. The number of folkls who've lost food from their tents is zero. I realize this fact may trouble some people, but it doesn't alter the facts: The food that has been taken near here by bears has been taken from trees. People may read into this whatever they wish.
WWDBD?- What Would Daniel Boone Do? or did our 18th century explorers and pioneers hang food bags? Did they record bear attacks? Why or why not?
"You're a nearsighted, bitter old fool."
WWDBD? - kill it. skin it. fire up the steaks. He had a rifle.
1a-006959.jpg He never wore a coon skin cap that was fiction.
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
yeah, but why would people listen to you? If they knew enough to tell good advice from bad advice, they probably wouldn't need the advice in the first place.
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
Fair enough Jack, and you have repeated this fact...people who sleep with their food aren't losing their food bags...great!
However, how many thru-hikers have been through Neels Gap this year? Now, how many of those have lost their food bags? Lastly, how many thru-hikers actually know how to execute a solid PCT Hang by the time they reach Neels Gap?
I've seen hundreds of food bags hung in my day, most of them are useless.
The parties that Boone and others led into Carolina and Kentucky most likely built a bear cache where they stopped. Even thought they weren't carrying the Snickers and other bear treats we carry today, what they did carry was too valuable and too hard to replace to leave it to chance.
Don't mean I'm going to build a bear cache today.
The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
You never know which one is talking.
Daniel had no trouble with "Bahrs",when he met one he gave it the ole.A good "Grin" can cure just about anything.Even a bear attack."Cause I saw it on TV"
Whoever said you hang your food to protect it????? That certainly isnt what we were taught in scouts. You hang your food to protect YOU .
Common sense says that YOU have to be safer without the food in the tent.
Now if you want to protect the food, and the bear, you need to hang it well. Very very very well. I
In actuality, the amount you are safer may be very small, but it should be safer nonetheless, for you.
I will suggest that if you had food in your pack, to a nose as sensitive as as bears (better than a bloodhound) , everything you have still has residual food smells on it, your tent, your sleeping bag, your clothes, etc all smell like food to some extent. The reason the bear leaves it alone, (most of the time), is that it can tell its not strong enough odor to be worthwhile, and he just really doesnt want anything to do with you.
Stranger: In answer to your direct questions: I do not know how many attempting thru-hikers have been thru Neel Gap this year....nobody does. We have a log book that frequently goes unsigned, no matter where we put it. As to the percentrage of folks passing thru who've lost their food....again, I have no idea. And I absolutely agree with you in that I suspect that most of the tree-hung food that has been lost this year was hung low or hung poorly, but not being a personal witness to this, who knows....As has been stated previosuly, we have no "set" policy here at Neel Gap... we merely answer people's questions. We tell them what we know about risk from bears, especially as regards specific end-of-day destinations, campsites, etc. But do we tell people what they should do with their food? No, we do not. If they wish to join the two dozen people who've hung their food and lost it, well, this is their choice. One of the great things aout Trail Life is that people get the chance to decide for themselves what works for them. That being said.....when people say such things as "Common sense indicates that you're better off without food in your tent...", well this may be perfectly true in Montana. In North Georgia in the midst of thru-hiking season, there are statistics that would argue with this, but as I've said already, people can read and learn facts and then do with them whatever they wish. As a study, here's this: I know of a dozen people camping within two tenthsd of a mile of here tonight.......some will bearhang. Most probably won't. I'll certainly check in tomorrow, after breakfat time, with a fatality report for those who think this is a really burning issue.
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