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  1. #41
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    I carry one of these: http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/st...roductId=43657

    I was thinking I could use it with the Yerba Mate. I figure if I get the "nutrients" out of coffee with it, then the nutrients ought to come out about the same from yerba.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  2. #42
    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock
    I carry one of these: http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/st...roductId=43657

    I was thinking I could use it with the Yerba Mate. I figure if I get the "nutrients" out of coffee with it, then the nutrients ought to come out about the same from yerba.
    That would work fine. It's just tea.

    Damn! I see I've gotten spoiled by finding it local.
    http://www.yerbamatecafe.biz/Mananita_1kg_p/1199.htm
    $3/kilo, not bad, but then $6.61 shipping! No way I'd pay $10 a bag. It's good but it ain't gold. On backpacking trips I'll stick with instant Cafe Bustelo, which I can also find locally: http://www.cubanfoodguy.com/bustello.htm , http://www.cafecubano.com/detail.aspx?ID=110

    Rock - I've got an extra 2 oz jar of CB if you'd like a sample. Great coffee for little weight and no mess or fuss.

    And all the food and nutrient talk is well and good but has anybody mentioned that long distance hikers probably get about 20% of all their calories from town stops? That's the time to 'veg out' (heh!) and hit the AYCE salad bars.
    You never turned around to see the frowns
    On the jugglers and the clowns
    When they all did tricks for you.

  3. #43

    Default as you wish....

    I don't think that protein gets absorbed into water.
    I don't think all the nutrients get extracted from vegetables at temperatures below boiling.
    I think that pressure/suction is required to extract all the nutrients from greens when not boiled.
    You will get the xanathines out, just like coffee, but you will not get all the nutrients out.
    I don't believe that I am re-writing science by stating that less than boiling water does not extract all the nutrients from greens?
    You will still get some nutrients out with any other method, but you will not get all of them out.
    Please, just insure that you drink enough water, as your North American' methods will use 2-4 times the water. I lived in Argentina and Uruguay for a little over 1/2 a year; I am not saying that they are always right, just sharing what I learned about the tea.
    As a final note about the tea: when using the tea in a gourd it first produces small white bubbles on top of the water. They will be there for about 5-8 fills of water. After the bubbles disappear the nutrients are spent. But, the "upper" remains. It is true that you can continue to re-use the same tea, but many of the nutrients have already been extracted. After a while, it only continues to give you the upper and some other nutrients, but they say that most have been extracted and the tea is "spent". I use 1/4 cup or less of water to extract my nutrients; just like a tonic.
    I think it is great that people are trying to put this healthy green into their diet; personally I would not suggest using it unlike the natives always have; as a tonic. Still, live as you like. Hike your own hike. Let me know your experience on the trail with the tea.

  4. #44
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dances with Mice
    Rock - I've got an extra 2 oz jar of CB if you'd like a sample. Great coffee for little weight and no mess or fuss.

    And all the food and nutrient talk is well and good but has anybody mentioned that long distance hikers probably get about 20% of all their calories from town stops? That's the time to 'veg out' (heh!) and hit the AYCE salad bars.
    I would love to do it that way since I would have to order it on-line myself.

    I think it ought to be mentioned that a thru-hiker does get nutrients that way, so better care can be taken when eating in town to get something other than ho-hos and moon pies.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  5. #45
    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    http://www.noborders.net/mate/how.html
    Using multiple extractions & other preparation techniques is really nothing new. Yerba's a healthy drink that nobody else has mentioned before on this forum, kudos for bringing it up.

    Rock - IM me a snail mail address & I'll drop the bottle in the mail.
    You never turned around to see the frowns
    On the jugglers and the clowns
    When they all did tricks for you.

  6. #46

    Default Eat in town

    Thank you Dances with Mice. I have added in your points to highlight the importance of good town food. I posted them in the article. Here is the relevent Section:


    REST!
    Give muscles a chance to replenish their carbohydrate stores. It takes several days to fully replete stores after they are exhausted/depleted. On a long trek, you may find your energy level flagging earlier and earlier with each passing day. Feeling tired, weak, anemic. You don't have the same stamina. It's likely not because you are suddenly iron deficient, but rather because you are running out of stored carbohydrate. Plan a day of rest following a particularly long grueling day and eat plenty of complex carbohydrates (i.e., whole grains, starchy vegetables). [Notice how many through-hikers do just the opposite. They eat high carbohydrate meals on the trail, then bee-line to town to gorge on a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream and a dozen donuts after single-handedly inhaling a large pizza with everything on it. Where does all that fat go? It's NOT replenishing depleted glycogen stores (humans can't convert fat to carbohydrate effectively). If it doesn't go straight through you (diarrhea), some of the fat goes to replete the fat stores in the heart and muscle, but most of the excess goes right back into storage to be lugged around a few more miles.]
    Dances with Mice hits this point well. He asks, "And all the food and nutrient talk is well and good but has anybody mentioned that long distance hikers probably get about 20% of all their calories from town stops? That's the time to 'veg out' (heh!) and hit the AYCE salad bars."

    Both the Dr. and Dances with Mice are noting to take advantage of the town visits not so much to load up on ice cream, rather to "veg out" or as the Dr. summizes, "eat plenty of complex carbohydrates (i.e., whole grains, starchy vegetables)." Still get the Ice Cream, just eat it on the trail rather than in town. Your body will thank you.

  7. #47

    Default Update on this issue from impeccable source...

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=22554

    Mediterranean Diet Adds Years to Your Life

    08 Apr 2005



    The Mediterranean diet is associated with longer life expectancy among elderly Europeans, finds a study published online by the BMJ today.

    The Mediterranean diet is characterised by a high intake of vegetables, legumes, fruits, and cereals; a moderate to high intake of fish; a low intake of saturated fats, but high intake of unsaturated fats, particularly olive oil; a low intake of dairy products and meat; and a modest intake of alcohol, mostly as wine.

    Current evidence suggests that such a diet may be beneficial to health.

    The study involved over 74,000 healthy men and women, aged 60 or more, living in nine European countries. Information on diet, lifestyle, medical history, smoking, physical activity levels, and other relevant factors was recorded. Adherence to a modified Mediterranean diet was measured using a recognised scoring scale.

    A higher dietary score was associated with a lower overall death rate. A two point increase corresponded to an 8% reduction in mortality, while a three or four point increase was associated with a reduction of total mortality by 11% or 14% respectively.

    So, for example, a healthy man aged 60 who adheres well to the diet (dietary score of 6-9) can expect to live about one year longer than a man of the same age who does not adhere to the diet.

    The association was strongest in Greece and Spain, probably because people in these countries follow a genuinely Mediterranean diet, say the authors.

    Adherence to a Mediterranean type diet, which relies on plant foods and unsaturated fats, is associated with a significantly longer life expectancy, and may be particularly appropriate for elderly people, who represent a rapidly increasing group in Europe, they conclude.

    Online First
    (Modified Mediterranean diet and survival: EPIC-elderly prospective cohort study)
    bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38415.644155.8F

    British Medical Journal
    =================================================
    Posted previously on this topic:

    www.PaleoDiet.com - The Paleolithic Diet Page
    What the Hunter/Gatherers Ate


    Also see the www.PaleoFood.com Recipe Collection and the www.Foraging.com Page

  8. #48

    Default Olive Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by minnesotasmith
    Thanks for bringing this up. I am going to reference this article into the primer. I have heard some doctors are recommending 4tbs. olive oil/day as a result of this study. Of course, fresh vegetables and fruits are key in this diet. Still, it is worth noting to give credence to the idea that large quantities of olive oil on the trail is not necessarily bad for you.


    I had not thought of intigrating this into the primer until you posted it here. Thanks again Minnesotasmith.


  9. #49
    Registered User Brock's Avatar
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    Default Dumb it down for me please.

    Wow, tons of info here for someone like me who lives alone and frequents fast food restaurants. I have never eaten "healthy" in my life and I would like to do a better job while on trail. (I'm actually hoping to lose about 20 lbs)
    With all this talk about cal/oz ratios, complex carbs and complete proteins, this leads me to ask.... What foods exactly should I be eating? I'm asking for names here, not just oats and granola. I would like to know if product A is better than B since if you check the label, it has more carbs and weighs less. Essentially, a grocery list of popular food stuff detailing what it is good for would be EXCELLENT.
    This may be asking a lot, but some "healthy" eating former-thru-hikers may have some great suggestions like "oh, you can find product C at every food stop and it is great as an hourly snack".
    Any info would be great but can you dumb it down for me.

    P.S. - I love the point about "vegging out" while in town. Great tip, but the ice cream, beer and pizza will still be in the mix too.

  10. #50

    Default Brock, about your question...

    "What foods exactly should I be eating?"

    I previously posted a bunch of info on eating healthily in this thread below:

    https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8039

    I would add that if, as much as possible, you buy "pure" foods rather than mixes. That is, buy fruits, vegetables, grains, and meats that are just the one product, that have a minimum of processing and are devoid of salt, flavorings, preservatives, salt, sugar, etc., etc., added to them.

  11. #51
    Walking Stick glessed's Avatar
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    Default

    This is a great article. Thanks for moving it to the article section.

  12. #52
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    I tried some of that Yerba Tea Dances with Mice sent me. I guess I'll have to work with it a while, the flavor is sort of like soaking hay in water then drinking the water. Do you ever do anything to spice it up?
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  13. #53

    Default Several thoughts on people's questions I can add here...

    1) On protein being water-soluble; that varies by the food. For corn, something like 6% is WS, while for rice more like 25-40%.

    2) The finer the grind, the hotter the water, and the longer the steeping time, the higher the percentage of any nutrient that will enter the water, from any soaked/boiled food.

    3) Vitamin C is substantially vulnerable to damage by boiling temperatures. The B vitamins are less so, but not negligibly. Note that vitamin A is very easy to get in one's diet, and being fat-soluble is stored in the body far longer than are Bs and C (all WS). E is easily obtained by eating wheat germ, while K is easiest to get from dark green vegetables.

    4) The rule of thumb for common vegetables cooked for average times by being heated in water is that around half the vitamins leach out into the water. That is why (for nonbitter vegetables) I always endeavor to drink the "pot liquor" that is left over from cooking, or in canned vegetables with significant vitamin content. For canned foods with little vitamin content such as onions or mushrooms, or ones to which huge amounts of salt are commonly added such as beans, I do rinse them in water and discard all the liquids.

  14. #54
    Registered User Moxie00's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Wild food

    On my thru I had no plans to live off the land. I ate instant oatmeal, snickers bars, bagels with peanut butter, Lipton rice and noodles, mac & cheese and lots of textured vegtable protien (TVP). However a couple of times I had amazing treats off the land. At the Clyde Smith shelter north of Erwin I arrived as "Arrow" was cooking up a huge batch of nettles she had picked along the trail tthat morning. She invited me to share with her and it was about the best lunch I had from Ga. to Maine. Nettles are in no way an endangeted species and there is no harm in picking them. In New York State "Mister Clean" came into camp and set up his tent late one evening. He was a southbounder that had started at Abol Bridge on Jan. 1st and he was hiking three or four miles a day savoring the trail and planning to take a full year hiking to Georgia. That day he had picked about a peck of chantrell mushrooms and offered to share. I am a mushroom picker myself and knew chantrells but the rest of the gang was afraid of wild mushrooms. I had some parkey and some garlic salt and the meal that night was as good as any I have eaten anywhere. Again Chantrels are in no way endangered and if you pick one, two will grow back the next year. In the spring fiddlehead ferns are easy to come by in Maine and are excellent eating. Ditto for ramps in Georgia in April. When I backpack I bring all my meals and do not plan to forage but there are some wonderful meals to be had for the picking along the AT.

  15. #55

    Thumbs up Greens can be dried for the trail

    Quote Originally Posted by YerbaJon
    Most up to date primer now posted as first item in this forum.
    On our hike of the AT in 2001 my wife and I ate a large variety of foods , dried and fresh , unfortunately quite a bit of it had Soy products. Hmm too late for me to study the impact on my body probably but will from now on consume soy products after careful consideration only. Sorry I just love the taste of Soy milk...

    We got the book Dry it You'll Like It in 1999 , we bought a Foodsaver vacuum food sealer 3 months before the trail and began to work like Hell 3-4 nights per week drying and sealing a large variety of vegetables. We purchased dried corn , peppers and mushrooms ( oops didn't someone say they're not veggies ) We had dried broccoli florets , lot's of shredded Broccoli Slaw , yellow and green zucchini , green beans , peas , asparagus and carrots. I did not have it analysed as to it's nutrient retention , we just loved them all. We were popular for sharing some of these with our fellow hikers, who were amazed to be putting something that good into their ramen soups at night. I had some leftovers we distributed at the Place the next year in 2002 , visually at least , they had not deteriorated. Again I didn't get them analysed. The Broccoli slaw was especially good , we sealed it in a tupperware like container in the a.m.s with some H2O and ate it for lunch stirred up with a Mayonnaise packet. We got that idea from a thru-hiker from 1995, so people have been doing there veggies out there, FYI Tent-n-Kent

  16. #56
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default bad news for me....lactose intolerant

    i've been drinking soy milk for almost 3 years now, found it to be a blessing when it comes to eating cereal, thought soy was beneficial NOW THIS, I am bummed to say the least

  17. #57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan
    i've been drinking soy milk for almost 3 years now, found it to be a blessing when it comes to eating cereal, thought soy was beneficial NOW THIS, I am bummed to say the least
    Me too...Tent-n-Kent

  18. #58

    Default Actually, there are a LOT of reasons to avoid soy in quantity, especially for guys...

    From the large thread on hiking food issues I previously posted:

    https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8039

    "26) Soybeans have several chemicals that make me question the wisdom of eating soy and its products when they can be avoided. First, soy that has not been severely processed (miso, tofu) has some antinutrient compounds that inhibit utilization during digestion of some vitamins and minerals; ordinary cooking or drying does not deactivate these compounds in soy as it does related ones in beans and green peas.

    Even then, there appear to be analogs to estrogens (certain hormones mainly found in women) in them that will survive such processing. These E.A.s may protect against circulatory system disorders in women to some extent, but there is increasing evidence that these are undesirable for males of any age to consume.

    Even soybean oil is likely to have drawbacks. Soy oil is normally partially hydrogenated (made more saturated) to slow down the rate it goes rancid; look on the back of any inexpensive cookie package or baking mixes to check this. However, this produces a chemical not found in nature for which there is no reason to consume it, it being significantly less healthy than the original.

    For all these reasons, I try to avoid soy nuts, textured vegetable protein, soy milk, and above all soy oil (whether as the pure oil or as an ingredient in purchased mixed foods), just occasionally having a cup of miso soup or using soy sauce in cooking, which add only a tiny bit of soy to my diet."

  19. #59

    Default

    Thanks Minnesota, again...My wife had recently cut most of soy out of her diet after reading a definitive book on headaches. " The Headache Book " from a research m.d. at Johns Hopkins U. It has given her a challenge to narrow her list of dietary favorites , but it has given her near total freedom from pain , as well as saving us a lot of money in prescription remedies. Just don't go on Oprah with this or you'll have a bunch of corporate " farmers " suing the both of you , I suppose , for cutting into their soybean profit margin.....Tent-N-Kent

  20. #60

    Default Soy Milk Alternative

    A great alternative to soy milk (soy juice) is oat milk. It is the same price and unlike soy, which tastes kinda' like milk, the oat milk tastes better than milk. It works wonders with cereal, in teas, alone as a glass, etc.

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