GSMNP Thinking of Charging for Back Country Camping. $5 per day Per Person Per Hike?

[Ewker]

wonder how many folks will stealth camp or take a chance on a ranger not coming to the campsite they are staying at.

I still don't see how the rangers will be able to check every campsite every night.

[SGT Rock]

Someone at the BMTA did the math. If their reported hiker population all still came and paid - after costs for the recreation.gov site, they might be able to afford training an staffing one extra LEO.

[jbwood5]

wonder how many folks will stealth camp or take a chance on a ranger not coming to the campsite they are staying at.

I still don't see how the rangers will be able to check every campsite every night.

They won't
Don't count on this proposed reservation fee doing much of anything. If they collect enough (after paying the contractor), to be able to fund 1 or 2 full time patrol rangers, I would be very suprised.

[Carl in FL]

This is obviously set up for things like planned family vacations,
ala Griswolds, and not the independent section hiker. It should
therefore only apply to the family vacation type of sites and not
back-country camping.

[SGT Rock]

It would probably be great for what is called "Front Country Camping" in the Smokies.

[wisenber]

It would probably be great for what is called "Front Country Camping" in the Smokies.

That's already handles with their own in house reservation software.

[wisenber]

Not if you walk in and work with what they have. That's what I did on two separate occasions.

That goes back to not affording a last minute weekend hike without coughing up a few hours of driving into the visitors center.
That would be akin to having someone take your bicycle and agree to rent it back to you as long as you stay on the roads they permit you to be on.

[SGT Rock]

That's already handles with their own in house reservation software.

Good to know. I never camp there so I had no clue they already have that covered.

[wisenber]

http://www.recreation.gov/marketing.do?goto=/nrrsreservationpolicies.html

Holy cow. Don't try to change your hike in the middle of it either.

It would appear from the link that a "no show" to your back country site could cost more than if you did show up.
"Camping/DayUse: If the customer does not arrive at the campground or group facility and does not cancel the reservation by the times listed above, they will be assessed a $20.00 service fee and forfeit the first night use fee or the total day use fee. "

Perhaps the park could get still more revenue by hiring people from preventing you from getting to your reserved site? That could pay for even more back country rangers and prevent even more environmental catastrophes from occurring. If they could just prevent half of the hikers from getting to their sites, they may be able to hire four FTE which could in turn prevent the rest of getting there. Excellent plan!

[wisenber]

Good to know. I never camp there so I had no clue they already have that covered.

But they also want to move that to the contractor site.

[SGT Rock]

This may be one case where the front country policy will drag the back country with it with a rules set by people that don't do back county or understand the implications. Again, I highly encourage folks to send e-mails to the addresses provided and show up at these meetings. Chances are there is some poor SOB working there that is trying to tell people in charge exactly what we are saying, but is being ignored. Our letters and comments could be giving that person the ammo they need to get this shut down.

[Marta]

OK, I did it. I just spent the last hour (maybe not that long, but it felt like it) composing an email to [email protected]. I've done my part to stop the madness. What about you? (Sgt. Rock not included. Thank you for your contribution to this effort, Sgt.!)

[SGT Rock]

Believe me I have sent one myself in addition to planning to attend at least one of the open houses. The president of the BMTA also sent one that was very well written and called for more open houses than two for this big of a change, and to have them in a wider area than just here since this will impact many thousands of people that use the back country but cannot come here for this on the limited two days they are planning to have this. Maybe have events at REI stores throughout the South East and Mid Atlantic Region.

[Marta]

I do get the feeling that the plan is essentially already in place and ready to go. It wouldn't surprise me to find that they've already signed a contract with the web service. As you say, the public comment sessions are pretty much designed not to be able to gather comments from almost any of the affected park users.

[SGT Rock]

That is quite possible.

[Trailbender]

dunno, complicated issue. it did seem that the primary justification was to use the national online reservation service and pay for it with reservations fees. kinda sounds like creating a buracracy to collect fees to maintain itself.

as far as the "locals" having to deal with crowds. tough. reminds me of when I lived in Florida and people would buy a condo on the beach and then complain about the sunbathers on "their" beach. Unless someone's a Cherokee their claim to being a local is suspect.

Even then it is as well. The "Native Americans" crossed the Bering Strait from Russia to get here, so even they aren't natives. How far back in history do you have to go to be native?

[SGT Rock]

Since they were born maybe?

[Sly]

That goes back to not affording a last minute weekend hike without coughing up a few hours of driving into the visitors center.
That would be akin to having someone take your bicycle and agree to rent it back to you as long as you stay on the roads they permit you to be on.

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

Except for a few that may go with advanced reservations all CDT hikers arrange to get to one of the backcountry ranger stations to work out their schedule in the park. They hitch, take a bus, rent a car, or walk. It's not that hard if you want to hike in the park. And well worth the effort.

[Pedaling Fool]

I'm ready to write a letter, but not sure how to word it because of my style of hiking thru the park. That's to say I'm not a local and do not ever plan on visiting the park, pre se, but I do like hiking in that area and will do so again, but only as a LD/thru-hiker, i.e. I never plan on starting/finishing in the park. So does anyone know how this will affect hikers just passing thru? I need to know before I can share my thoughts on this crappy system, especially the reservation process. If no one knows I will just send off an email and see if I can get an answer.

Also another curious thing about all this and something I want to include in the letter is what about the horse campers? Will there be an additional fee for the horse? Those horses, best I can tell by looking at the trail thru the park are the ones that create those knee-high gulleys.

[wisenber]

I do get the feeling that the plan is essentially already in place and ready to go. It wouldn't surprise me to find that they've already signed a contract with the web service. As you say, the public comment sessions are pretty much designed not to be able to gather comments from almost any of the affected park users.

In that case, don't be afraid to also write your members of Congress. Marta, Heath Schuler is not your district, but he is from your state. With his district covering Bryson City, he may be more motivated. Your input can be amplified if you light a fire under your members of Congress. State reps also help.