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  1. #81

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    excellent link for anyone hiking the whites:http://hikesafe.com/

  2. #82

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    For anyone hiking the whites, I found a good link:http://hikesafe.com/

  3. #83
    Section Hiking Knucklehead Hooch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgposey View Post
    I maybe should mention that I'm a thru-hiker, and I don't necessarily plan to be one of the first two hikers to arrive to get work-for-stay, and I'm certainly not willing to pay the ridiculously high fees.
    Really? So you're expecting charity because you're lazy and a cheapskate? Nice. If you, for whatever reason, are unwilling to pay like everyone else or are not able to participate in work-for-stay, be prepared to move on down the line. As a thru-hiker, you're not entitled to anything, as others have pointed out, while you're on this little extended vacation.
    "If you play a Nicleback song backwards, you'll hear messages from the devil. Even worse, if you play it forward, you'll hear Nickleback." - Dave Grohl

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Murphy View Post
    You - show up after work-for-stay no longer available due to close hut and trying to illegally camp next to shelter, caretaker advises you on the closest legal campsite Other hiker - shows up during season and took advantage of work-for stay. The thousands of people using the hut system have less impact than you illegally camping above treeline.You shouldn't have pushed thru to Madison. Your thru hike ended due to your own poor decisions. Hopefully you will realize that someday. The caretaker did exactly the right thing. Sincerely, Tom Murphy
    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was hiking off season, the Madison Hut was closed. I reached there in no real shape to continue and figured I could stay in the outside foyer. The caretaker shows up, listens to my story (while my knees are screaming) and sends me down the mountain. Wearily on the way down to valley campsite, I fall and injure myself. The caretaker, still there closing the hut a couple days later, let a perfectly healthy hiking stay.
    Why wasn't he sent down the mountain? What ****ing damage could I cause sleeping on the door step that thousands have walked over? And how was my injury, which ended my hike, the result of poor planning?

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooch View Post
    Really? So you're expecting charity because you're lazy and a cheapskate? Nice. If you, for whatever reason, are unwilling to pay like everyone else or are not able to participate in work-for-stay, be prepared to move on down the line. As a thru-hiker, you're not entitled to anything, as others have pointed out, while you're on this little extended vacation.
    There is a difference between being a cheapskate and not getting ripped off. If they charged full price for a hut stay, I would definitely feel like I got ripped off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was hiking off season, the Madison Hut was closed. I reached there in no real shape to continue and figured I could stay in the outside foyer. The caretaker shows up, listens to my story (while my knees are screaming) and sends me down the mountain. Wearily on the way down to valley campsite, I fall and injure myself. The caretaker, still there closing the hut a couple days later, let a perfectly healthy hiking stay.
    Why wasn't he sent down the mountain? What ****ing damage could I cause sleeping on the door step that thousands have walked over? And how was my injury, which ended my hike, the result of poor planning?
    I would have calmly explained the situation to him, stated that I couldn't move, and if he told me to move on, I would have politely refused. Sounds like you have a lawsuit in the works, as his actions directly contributed to your injury.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post
    I would have calmly explained the situation to him, stated that I couldn't move, and if he told me to move on, I would have politely refused. Sounds like you have a lawsuit in the works, as his actions directly contributed to your injury.
    I'm not the type for frivolous lawsuits. I chose to be in the mountains that day, so ultimately I do bare the responsibility. However, as I previously said, in the future when it comes to my well being, I'm making the decisions, not some young croo dude hired by the AMC.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post


    I would have calmly explained the situation to him, stated that I couldn't move, and if he told me to move on, I would have politely refused. Sounds like you have a lawsuit in the works, as his actions directly contributed to your injury.
    Is that a joke? I hope so

  8. #88
    Section Hiking Knucklehead Hooch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post
    There is a difference between being a cheapskate and not getting ripped off. If they charged full price for a hut stay, I would definitely feel like I got ripped off.
    I agree that there is a difference in being a cheapskate and not getting ripped off. However, if someone is being charged the same as everyone else for the same thing, it's not getting ripped off. It's called paying your fair share for a service you chose. If one thinks that the huts charge too much, they're freee to move on.
    "If you play a Nicleback song backwards, you'll hear messages from the devil. Even worse, if you play it forward, you'll hear Nickleback." - Dave Grohl

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was hiking off season, the Madison Hut was closed. I reached there in no real shape to continue and figured I could stay in the outside foyer. The caretaker shows up, listens to my story (while my knees are screaming) and sends me down the mountain.
    Sorry Sly, your not going to get much sympathy on this one.

    No doubt your knees were starting to scream well before you got to Madison hut, but instead of dropping down to Crag Camp or Gray Knob, you pushed on figuring since it was "off season" you could get away with illegally camping at Madison hut. But you were caught, plain and simple, sorry.

    I suspect there is more to this story then your letting on. Is it possible you had already set up a tent, blocking the front door when the caretaker showed up? If I was the caretaker, that would have pissed me off. I'm looking at a picture of Madison hut - there is no foyer, just a small patch of flat ground directly in front of the doorway.

    In any event, if your knees were in such bad shape going down to the tent platforms was enough to end your hike, it's unlikely you would have lasted much longer anyway, even if you had been able to stay at the hut. The decent off Madison on the Osgood trail is a serious knee cruncher - much worse than the valley way.
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  10. #90
    Always keep your head on a swivel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    I'm not the type for frivolous lawsuits.
    You are an increasing rarity these days. Too bad more people aren't like that. People need to man (or woman, mind you) up and take responsibility for themselves! Ok, I'm off my soapbox now!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Murphy View Post
    You - show up after work-for-stay no longer available due to close hut and trying to illegally camp next to shelter, caretaker advises you on the closest legal campsite

    Other hiker - shows up during season and took advantage of work-for stay.

    The thousands of people using the hut system have less impact than you illegally camping above treeline.You shouldn't have pushed thru to Madison. Your thru hike ended due to your own poor decisions. Hopefully you will realize that someday. The caretaker did exactly the right thing.

    Sincerely,
    Tom Murphy
    Very well said. I've often wondered why thru-hikers think they are entitled to special treatment. Thru-hikers are just hikers on a long hike and are not entitled to any special treatment. The same rules for services and work-for-stay-or-pay should apply to them.

  12. #92
    Registered User Carl in FL's Avatar
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    If the caretaker did "exactly the right thing" for Sly then he did not do
    "exactly the right thing" for the person that came through a few days later.
    That seems to be one thing irking Sly, as it would irk any one of you in the
    same sit. Careful how you hurl the stones.

  13. #93
    Always keep your head on a swivel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl in FL View Post
    If the caretaker did "exactly the right thing" for Sly then he did not do
    "exactly the right thing" for the person that came through a few days later.
    That seems to be one thing irking Sly, as it would irk any one of you in the
    same sit. Careful how you hurl the stones.
    I don't mind if they won't bend the rules or make an exception for me, but if they are going to do that, then they have to be consistent, and you don't bend the rules for ANYONE!

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl in FL View Post
    If the caretaker did "exactly the right thing" for Sly then he did not do
    "exactly the right thing" for the person that came through a few days later.
    That seems to be one thing irking Sly, as it would irk any one of you in the
    same sit. Careful how you hurl the stones.
    Well, we know the situation with Sly - he was attempting to illegaly camp in front of the hut and got caught doing it. We have no idea what the situation with the other guy was. No doubt it was a completely different set of circumstances, or the caretaker was in a better mood, or what ever.
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  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobqzzi View Post
    Is that a joke? I hope so
    The moving on thing? I am old enough now to know to listen to my body. If I know I need to stop and rest, then I'll stop and rest, despite what anyone says. I think most people would be sympathetic, and leave me alone, but if not, I'd probably just ignore them. They won't be the one suffering if I hurt myself badly.

    For the lawsuit thing, I was more referring to if it had been a really serious disabling injury, not something minor. He didn't really specify which it was. If the caretaker directly contributed to it by forcing him to move on, and that resulted in an injury, I don't see how he wouldn't be held liable. I don't agree with frivilous lawsuits either, but I wouldn't consider that to be one.

  16. #96

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    sorry to veer off topic, but if the first thing you think about is to sue someone, then you've fallen victim to "i take no respo0nsibility for my own safety" school. the whites are the most dangerous small mountains in the world and need to be respected.I probably would have just stealth camped somewhere if I felt it was dangerous to continue.I think the croo member used poor judgement in forcing you on, as you said, it wasnt like they were ovrcrowded or anything. But from everyone Iv spoken with, this seems to be the exception. Most would do their best to ensure they werent sending you out into danger.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post
    He didn't really specify which it was.
    It was a knee injury. When I got to Madison they were screaming and needed rest. Once he sent me packing on the way to the Valley campsite, I fell and twisted it. A day hiker came by and I asked him if I made it down could he give me a ride back to Gorham. He agreed, and we hiked to the trailhead, finishing in the dark. he dropped me off, and I barely made it up the stairs to the Barn. The next day it was worse, and I knew it was going to take time to heal. Once I got back to Mass, they put my leg in an immobilizer. Since we're talking late September, there was no way, I was going to be able finish that year, so I resigned to the fact, I'd have to wait. By the following year I was good to go. This time when I reached the Whites I was a lot stronger and understood the terrain better*. I took my time through the Whites and went from the Dungeon to Osgood. I actually took the Parapeet Trail around Madison (worthless).

    That I didn't finish the 1st year was a bit of a disappointment, but I had a great time the 2nd year and met another great group of people.

    *(the year I got injured I ran out of money in PA, worked a couple months and got back on the trail southbound in Gorham looking for friends. The plan was to do the Whites sobo, hook up with friends, hike to Maine and then flip, finishing in PA)

  18. #98
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingturtle View Post
    You are an increasing rarity these days. Too bad more people aren't like that. People need to man (or woman, mind you) up and take responsibility for themselves! Ok, I'm off my soapbox now!
    Frivlous lawsuits are mostly a myth. It's hard to find a lawyer even for legitimate lawsuits, unless the legal fraternity smells a chance for big bucks.

    I was fed a heart drug that I found out later was notorious for destroying lungs. Something like 3 percent of takers experience lung problems. Seventine percent of those affected die as a result.

    I was walking five miles a day. Then suddenly I couldn't walk 125 feet to the top of my driveway to pick up the mail. I went to my heart doctor, and he said, not to worry. Just keep exercising and you will be okay. I ended up in the emergency room a few days later. The doctor, who had totally misread my symptoms, explained that HE had never experienced problems with the drug before. He was a heart specialist. He had never bother to read the problems with the drug he was giving his patients.

    A decade later I still can't walk more than a mile, except at a crawl. But no lawyer I talked to was interested. The consensus seemed to be that the award I might win, wasn't worth their time.
    Last edited by weary; 08-05-2011 at 20:45.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Frivlous lawsuits are mostly a myth. It's hard to find a lawyer even for legitimate lawsuits, unless the legal fraternity smells a chance for big bucks.

    I was fed a heart drug that I found out later was notorious for destroying lungs. Something like 3 percent of takers experience lung problems. Seventine percent of those affected die as a result.

    I was walking five miles a day. Then suddenly I couldn't walk 125 feet to the top of my driveway to pick up the mail. I went to my heart doctor, and he said, not to worry. Just keep exercising and you will be okay. I ended up in the emergency room a few days later. The doctor, who had totally misread my symptoms, explained that HE had never experienced problems with the drug before. He was a heart specialist. He had never bother to read the problems with the drug he was giving his patients.

    A decade later I still can't walk more than a mile, except at a crawl. But no lawyer I talked to was interested. The consensus seemed to be that the award I might win, wasn't worth their time.
    3 days before my major heart attack i had a stress test at our local hospital. i failed miserably. the cardiologist didn't seem too concerned. the techs were very concerned. they said consut with a cardiologist ASAP. 3 days later, major attack, over 90% blockage in 4 arteries. tried the lawyer thing. they wouldn't touch it

  20. #100
    Always keep your head on a swivel
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    Weary, Lone Wolf - Sorry to hear about that...it seems that it all comes down to whether or not you will benefit their bottom line, not if it is the right thing to do.

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