Neoair Trekker or All-Season???

[RyanK817]

There are tons of comments about the Trekker on WB, but most of them are about initial impressions of and expectations for it and not about any real field experience. Has anyone used it out in the field very much and seen how it really performs? I heard the 2.0 R-value isn't exactly accurate because of the Trekker's insulation system, but I don't know. I'm starting SOBO in a few weeks from Katahdin and I feel like I'll be good at first, but I'm thinking the Trekker may not be warm enough by the time I get to NC/TN/GA. Any opinions on going with the Trekker rather than holding out for the All-Season?

[Rocket Jones]

I have the Trekker and it's been warm enough down to the mid-30's. I sleep warm though, so YMMV.

In your situation, I'd use the Trekker as is until it got cold, then add a length of blue pad on top for extra insulation. Or, to be more compact, one of their Thinlight pads.

I don't camp enough during the Winter to justify the expense of the All-Season too.

[Rocket Jones]

Or, to be more compact, one of their Thinlight pads.

Whoops. "Their" = Gossamer Gear.

[WhoDey]

I say get the new Exped Synmat UL 7 wit han R-value of 3.1. Lighter than either of the Thermarests for the same price. The All Season's claimed R-value of 4.9 sounds too good to be true IMO. I don't see how it's possible to get that R-value without insulation added.

[leaftye]

Check out the POE Elite AC. It's the lightest and least expensive pad in this thread so far, with the production models actually coming in lighter than the specs, and has a variable insulation with R-value 2.2-4.4.

http://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Outdoo.../dp/B004JMQDJW

Or spend a lot more on a much heavier Neoair and sleep colder.

[Slo-go'en]

I used the neoair this spring on my 500 mile stroll on the AT. On the few really cold nights, I belive I would have sleept warmer on my old Prolight 3 pad. When the nights consistantly drop below 40 or so, you will definately want a pad with better insulation than the neoair.

Neoair advantages:
1. reasonably light.
2. reasonably compact when deflated.
3. pretty comfy to sleep on.

Disadvantages:
1. not much insulation value.
2. takes a few minutes to blow up and deflate.
3. kind of noisy when you roll around on it.

[levidoug]

Exped Synmat UL 7 is actually less $ when you consider that you get a stuff sack and repair kit include. Just got one a few days ago. Awesome, haven't had in real cold weather yet. Got it at REI w/member coupon.

levidoug

[skinewmexico]

I'd wait until BPL publishes the results of their R-value testing on pads. But I'm a not a fan of Thermarest.

[springerfever]

Exped Synmat UL 7 is actually less $ when you consider that you get a stuff sack and repair kit include. Just got one a few days ago. Awesome, haven't had in real cold weather yet. Got it at REI w/member coupon.

Just picked up one myself last week at REI. I chose the shorter version, 64 inches. Actual width is 21" inflated and it weighs 15 oz in stuff sack w/patch kit. By using your clothing stuff sack as a pillow and using the two tie-outs at the head of the pad, my entire body is still on the pad itself. I'm 6 feet even. By flipping your pillow over on top of the pad, your feet will hang off the end, but you could easily use your pack to keep your feet off the ground. I will have to experiment to see which is more comfortable.

Pad inflates easily and fast. It's a much wider valve so its not like the thermarest where it seems like you are blowing through a straw.

http://www.youtube.com/ExpedLLC

Using the instaflator (weighs 1.5 oz) it takes about 45 seconds to inflate with no moisture-laden air from your lungs. I really like the material used on the Synmat 7UL and the valves are awesome.

[Lyle]

I was seriously looking at a NeoAir in one of the popular outfitters along the southern AT last fall. The sales person there strongly advised against it, stating that they had had way too many returned for legitimate durability problems.

He implied that when their current stock was gone, they would not be reordering unless there was a demand that developed. They were not impressed with the quality.

[Rocket Jones]

I was seriously looking at a NeoAir in one of the popular outfitters along the southern AT last fall. The sales person there strongly advised against it, stating that they had had way too many returned for legitimate durability problems.

He implied that when their current stock was gone, they would not be reordering unless there was a demand that developed. They were not impressed with the quality.

I understand that there *were* issues with the first release, but I haven't heard about a big number of problems since.

Then again, an outfitter is likely to have people coming in to replace their pad after a problem, because everyone who isn't having a problem wouldn't be there to replace it.

I also think the demand for the NeoAir is well established. I think they've found a niche with the lateral air ribs vs. most of the other air pads.

[RyanK817]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm thinking I'll take the Trekker back and give the Exped Synmat UL 7 a shot, I checked it out when I bought the Trekker and really liked it a lot then. After looking into the inflation system for Exped, I think it would make setting up camp for the night a much smoother process than the Trekker would even with a pump/instaflator.

[Limeman]

If you like the trekker, why take it back? If a pad is working for you, keep it. I own a NeoAir, and have used the Exped UL 7 several nights as well. The UL 7 is indeed a very nice pad, but the top surface was just too slippery for my tastes, especially compared to my NeoAir. I also found the length-wise tubes less supportive to my lower back than the cross-wise tubes of the Neo. That is IMO. One thing for sure though, the inflation/deflation valves on the Exped are things of brilliance, and almost made up for the slippery top - almost. I'm getting my hands on a POE Elite AC in a few days and will be interested to see how it compares to the Neo and Exped.

Regardless of which air pad you end up with, consider purchasing an Exped Mini-pump. Costs about $20, weighs right at 2oz, and packs down tiny. I was able to fill up either my NeoAir Large and the Exped UL 7 Medium in less than a minute with this great gadget. Great stuff.

[tuswm]

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72854

Out of my self, BF and best friend we have all mentioned pads. Here is a little comparison between the reg neoair and the UL7. I have slept on all but the all season and I think the UL7 is my favorite.

[leaftye]

Exped Synmat UL 7 is actually less $ when you consider that you get a stuff sack and repair kit include. Just got one a few days ago. Awesome, haven't had in real cold weather yet. Got it at REI w/member coupon.

Just picked up one myself last week at REI. I chose the shorter version, 64 inches. Actual width is 21" inflated and it weighs 15 oz in stuff sack w/patch kit. By using your clothing stuff sack as a pillow and using the two tie-outs at the head of the pad, my entire body is still on the pad itself. I'm 6 feet even. By flipping your pillow over on top of the pad, your feet will hang off the end, but you could easily use your pack to keep your feet off the ground. I will have to experiment to see which is more comfortable.

Pad inflates easily and fast. It's a much wider valve so its not like the thermarest where it seems like you are blowing through a straw.

http://www.youtube.com/ExpedLLC

Using the instaflator (weighs 1.5 oz) it takes about 45 seconds to inflate with no moisture-laden air from your lungs. I really like the material used on the Synmat 7UL and the valves are awesome.

It may be less expensive than the Neoair, but it's still twice as expensive as the Peak Elite AC, and colder under the torso. The Synmat R-value is 3.1 where the Peak Elite AC is 4.4 under the torso. I just got my Peak Elite AC last Friday. It's 13 ounces in the stuff sack with the repair kit, and less than 11 ounces by itself, and that's for the full 72" length version. Right now it's selling on Amazon for $65 shipped, but a few days ago it was selling for less than $60 shipped.

[tuswm]

The best thing about the Neo is how when you are on top of it. It just feel flat, like a real bed. It does have other draw back but it is super comfortable. Fantastic 3deminsional construction.


The UL7 has baffles. They are large baffles and you can totaly feel them. I have both and It just doesn't feel as flat as the Neo.



Now I dont have the new PEO but my concern is that I have layed on other POE and to me they just felt like a pool toy. They have a tube construction. Its a 2 dimensional construction. As you can see from this picture the tubes are separated by a significant distance. I feer this will feel like a pool toy and not make a flat even sleeping surface. I think when you take in to I think when you see that the other 2 have 3D construction and this only has 2d construction that would explain the difference in price and weight. But WOW what a price point.

[q-tip]

I used the NeoAir from Aug. to Nov southern half... With my WM 15 deg bag--no problems in 30 degrees...

[Limeman]

I have used all 3 - NeoAir, UL 7 and Elite AC. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but like shoes, boots, packs, etc., sleeping pad comfort is highly subjective, which means you really need to give them a try before you buy - or at least before you keep, as most return policies these days are very favorable.

So IMHO (and based on what feels good to me)... here are the pros/cons:

NeoAir

Pros:

- The most "mattress-like" air pad out there. Really does feel like your own bed - especially in the size Large (absolute heaven in a sleeping pad).
- Top and bottom grip your tent floor and sleeping bag like no other. No sliding at all.
- Very lightweight.
- Now available in 3 different flavors and R ratings (NeoAir, NeoAir All-season and Trekker).
- Packs down small

Cons:

- Has frustrating tendency to lose air in the middle of the night. Not a valve issue, but according to ThermaRest, has something to do with the hot air you breathe into it cooling down and losing volume. I typically pump my Neo with a Exped Mini Pump and I still have this problem. So, not too sure that Thermarest's reasoning is valid?
- Incredibly expensive in the NeoAir and All-Season versions. A bit of a gulp in the Trekker price point as well.
- Price does not include a stuff sack, although I have heard that stuff sacks and patch kits are included in the All-Season version.
- The 20" size Neos and Trekkers do not support your shoulders as nicely as the enlarged outside tubes on both the UL 7 and Elite AC pads.

Exped Synmat UL 7

Pros:

- Two separate valves for inflation and deflation - the absolute best valves in this group. They are so good, that it makes your head spin. No need for mouth gymnastics as the one-way inflation valve keeps air from escaping during breaths. You can also easily make micro adjustments while on the pad by simply reaching behind, pulling the attached cap off the inflation valve, and lightly tapping the inside orifice. A tiny amount of air is release with each tap, which makes finding the perfect comfort zone a cinch. Very easy to do, even in the dark. Ready to break camp? Open the large volume deflation valve and the pad looses air faster than any in this group. You'll have the pad rolled up and stuffed into it's sack before anyone else has gotten the air out of either of the two in this group.
- Slightly wider than the Neo and Elite AC pads, so comfort potential is increased, especially for those with wide shoulders.

Cons:

- Although a comfortable pad, the UL 7 provided less support for my mid and lower back than either the Neo and Elite AC pads. And when fully inflated, the Exped has a tendency to push into my lower back more than the other pads as well. Found it harder to find that happy spot, which makes the above mentioned valves such a critical component to this pad
- Both the top and bottom material of the pad was just too slippery for me. I found myself sliding on top of the pad and also sliding on the tent floor. This was actually a deal breaker for me. I suppose I could have painted on some silicon, but at this price point, I refused to do so.
- Crazy expensive, although you do get a storage sack and repair kit.
- Pad material dos not seem particularly water resistant and has a tendency to get dirty much easier than the other pads in this group.

Pacific Outdoor Equipment Peak Elite AC

Pros:

- Crazy lightweight - size R (72 x 20 x 2.5) comes in at about 10.8 oz
- Best buy of the group by far at roughly $65 online
- Very comfortable for me - almost as much so as my NeoAir Large pad. The larger diameter outside tubes (bigger than the UL 7) really make a huge difference for comfort as they coddle you and also help you keep your shoulders and more importantly, your elbows, off the ground. I was pleasantly surprised at this, specially considering that the Elite AC is the narrowest pad in this group.
- Packs down incredibly small, about 30% less than the Neo or UL7.
- R-rating feels accurate, if not a bit higher than the Exped, and certainly more so than the NeoAir.
- A bit lower in height that the other pads in this group while remaining equally comfortable. While you might think this a deficit, in my opinion, it is actually a plus. One of my main gripes with the new air pads is that they suck up internal volume in tents right where you don't want to loose it - at the head and foot of the tent. This is caused, of course, by the often rapidly sloping walls most backpacking tents utilize to keep weight down. Thus, the higher up you and your bag are, the more apt you are to make contact with the walls, possibly compromising your comfort and depending on the tent design and outside conditions, leading to condensation at the head and foot of your sleeping bag.
- Fabric on top and bottom a reasonable second to the NeoAir in terms grip. Still quite a bit superior to the UL 7.

Cons:

- Narrow mummy shape at the feet takes some getting used to and may not be your cup of tea, especially if you thrash about while you sleep. I haven't found it a problem, especially as the pad has strategically place bump-outs at the calf area to help keep your legs centered on the pad.
- Valve the least user-friendly of the three in this group. While it is made of aluminum, and might be more durable than the plastic valve of the Neo, it opens and closes with a coarse action that makes it a bit cumbersome to use.

So to wrap it up - again IMO:

Comfort -

1. NeoAir Large
2. POC Elite AC (moves to first place if compared to NeoAir 20" pads)
3. Exped UL 7

Weight and Pack Size -

1. POC Elite AC
2. NeoAir
3. Exped UL 7

Durability -

Draw - they all seem to be sufficiently durable if used correctly and treated with appropriate care.

Design and over-all user experience -

1. POC Elite AC - valve almost pushed it to second, but overall comfort, cost and light weight pushes it to the top
2. Exped UL 7 - valves are excellent, but the slippery fabric left me cold
3. NeoAir - takes a close third due to the "cold air" effect issue which requires you to re-inflate the pad during the middle of the night, and lower R rating

Price -

1. POC Elite AC - Regular
2. NeoAir - Regular
3. Exped UL 7

Sizes -

1. Neo - 3 different models and multiple sizes makes finding a solution easy
2. POC Elite AC - 3 different sizes offered
3. Exped UL 7 only 2 sizes pushes it to last.


Overall rating when all things considered:

1. POC Elite AC
2. Exped UL 7
3. NeoAir

All three are great pads, I just found more to like in the POC.

Cheers!

[Limeman]

Sorry... forgot to rate warmth -

1. UL 7 - The insulation runs the entire length of the pad, making it feel the warmest overall of this group
2. POC Elite AC - Although the insulation feels superior to the UL 7 in the body zone, it tapers off by design towards the legs and feet to help keep weight and compressibility to a minimum.
3. NeoAir - Reasonably warm, and could be all you ever need. But in colder conditions, it will require you to take along an additional pad for insulation before the UL7 and the Elite AC.

Whew... done!