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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Just thinking that with the Andrew Jackson's upcoming removal from the face of the $20 bill, it is a good occasion to think of all the history along the AT, and in particular the removal of the Cherokee around its southern terminus and the Trail of Tears.

    i sincerely believe that knowing a bit of the history that took place along the AT really adds to the thruhiking experience, in ways that are not so obvious-- at least they were not for me at age 23. Just a thought-- whether on this topic or something else, ther are some things that can be appreciated differently when walking thru it, IMO.
    I agree, otherwise...what's the point, one can only get so much fresh air sunshine and rainbows.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    i sincerely believe that knowing a bit of the history that took place along the AT really adds to the thruhiking experience, in ways that are not so obvious-- at least they were not for me at age 23. Just a thought-- whether on this topic or something else, ther are some things that can be appreciated differently when walking thru it, IMO.
    I've been working on an update of the slave labor used at the "cheese factory site".

    Maybe get it posted this weekend.
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Blazer View Post
    What's wrong with being white?
    Here's a neato A Jackson quote for all you presidential historians---

    "What good man would prefer a country covered with forests and ranged by a few thousand savages to our extensive Republic studded with cities, towns and prosperous farms, embellished with all the improvements which art can devise or industry execute occupied by more than 12,000,000 happy people and filled with all the blessings of liberty, civilization, and religion?" Andrew Jackson in 1829.

    My impression? Spoken like a true member of a master race. Change 12 million to 330 million and you get a better idea of what he was talking about. He also said:


    "The tribes which occupied the countries now constituting the Eastern States were annihilated or have melted away to make room for the whites." From President Andrew Jackson's Case for the Removal Act, December 8, 1829. (mtholyoke.edu). The Cherokee Indians regard AJ as the worst president ever.


    Factoids---
    ** In 1832 the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokee and said the Cherokee nation was sovereign and making the removal laws invalid. Justice John Marshall said the forced removal to be illegal, unconstitutional and against treaties made. President Jackson said "John Marshall has made his decision; let him enforce it now if he can." This gleaned from Christina Berry "Andrew Jackson: The Worst President the Cherokee Ever Met" (www.allthingscherokee.com/articles).


    DEATH SQUADS
    But if you really want to see a sad chapter in American history, study the slaughter of California Indians during the gold rush years. State subsidized death squads resulted in the murder of 100,000 Indians in the first two years of the rush, from 1846 to 1848. Hupa Indian historian Jack Norton called it the "Deranged frontier". Male Indians heads were worth more than female heads and the heads of children.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    The Cherokee Indians regard AJ as the worst president ever.
    with the remodel of the 20$ bill, will the long time boycott end?

  5. #85
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    Passing moral judgment on how people acted or behaved hundreds of years ago can be a risky undertaking. I do NOT want to get into a political discussion here, which is frowned upon, but the simple fact remains that in the 1830's, most American did not live in cities. They lived on farms, in many cases out in the middle of nowhere, and on the far frontiers, the threat from Indian attacks was very real. In some places, it was constant. It's all well and good for us to be smug about this subject today and tut-tut about Jackson and the Cherokee removals, but the plain and simple truth is that in the 1830's, the overwhelming number of Americans felt that this action was not only proper and deserved, but was long overdue. To them, Jackson was a hero.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    But if you really want to see a sad chapter in American history, study the slaughter of California Indians during the gold rush years. State subsidized death squads resulted in the murder of 100,000 Indians in the first two years of the rush, from 1846 to 1848. Hupa Indian historian Jack Norton called it the "Deranged frontier". Male Indians heads were worth more than female heads and the heads of children.
    I don't know if it's related to the gold rush or not, but years ago I read a book, Ishi, the Last of His Tribe. True story, about the very last of the Yahi. Population went down to 4, yes single digits, two older adults and a young female, his cousin. Being a cousin, she was off-limits as a wife, so at that point, they all knew it was over. One by one things happened until he was left alone. With his hair burnt off in mourning, he wandered into a town, Oroville I think, where he was picked up and put in jail because they had no idea what to do with him. Eventually the found a guy who could communicate with him, and he became a minor celebrity at the UC Berkeley anthropology department until he died of tuberculosis in 1916.

    Heartbreaking story, written in matter-of-fact style.

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    Wow, never learned that in American History class. What, not, a surprise.

    Maybe, it's already been posted but the Cherokee Museum in Cherokee NC in the heart of the Smokies is a great historical conscious awakening sobering historical account of the Cherokee culture from a different non pro white man America rah rah perspective. For an AT hike, and certainly BMT thru, I'd rather hitch into the quieter town of Cherokee getting some of that culture than that Gatlinburg circus.

  8. #88

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    What's really odd is all the places I go backpacking---Citico wilderness, Slickrock wilderness, Big Frog, Cohutta---they all used to be inhabited by Cherokee Indians. Now all the Indians are gone from these places and yet the US govt calls part of it the Cherokee National Forest. Very odd.

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    Sightly off topic, but for those of you who are local history buffs, I highly recommend setting aside a few hours when you get to Bear Mountain Zoo in NY and peruse their museums. They have several small buildings which house exhibits on the Natives that lived in the region, the early European settlers, and the role of the area in the Revolutionary war including naval warfare on the Hudson river.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    What's really odd is all the places I go backpacking---Citico wilderness, Slickrock wilderness, Big Frog, Cohutta---they all used to be inhabited by Cherokee Indians. Now all the Indians are gone from these places and yet the US govt calls part of it the Cherokee National Forest. Very odd.
    It's to honor the Cherokee, LOL, to make up for past atrocities, to assuage some people's awakened consciousness in a rather convenient approach?

    The hyped practicing of Manifest Destiny allowed the atrocities then and continues today. So much for who are the savages. It can be enlightening to get different perspectives on the same actions depending on the source.

  11. #91

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    In addition to the gold rush in "49" to California, Northern GA and southern NC had a rush that pre-dated the CA rush. There was an independent mint that struck gold coins from Dalonega, GA which only a few remain in the world in private collections and are priceless (so to speak)...so much history in the East (N&S) of our young country.

  12. #92

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    Put a picture of "ground zero" after the fall on every piece of currency, lest we never forget each time we buy something and as a reminder of the world we really live in, and what things really cost.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    Put a picture of "ground zero" after the fall on every piece of currency, lest we never forget each time we buy something and as a reminder of the world we really live in, and what things really cost.
    tired of kings, queens and elected officials on our currency...up to here!

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    tired of kings, queens and elected officials on our currency...up to here!
    How about this?
    image.jpg
    image.jpg

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    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    nope, no movie stars either, maybe some musicians.

  16. #96

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    History of the AT is ok but don't use the thread topic to rant about modern society and its policies.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
    Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
    Call for his whisky
    He can call for his tea
    Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
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    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    nope, no movie stars either, maybe some musicians.
    Lonnie Mack (RIP).

  18. #98

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    (RIP)

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    Wikipedia is as reliable a source as any other. No source is 100% accurate.
    I am not sure where this info came from! Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source. Their own editors claim they are not reliable!

    I describe Wikipedia as a source like my neighbor, Kaye. When I had a suspicsious mamogram and was told to get an ultrasoujd and a biopsy for possible breast cancer, I talked to Kaye, because she is a breast caner survivor. She suggested several things. HOWEVER, when it came down to it, I went with what my doctor suggested!

    Wikipedia is like Kaye - a great starting point. Like Wikipedia, she may even be able to provide links to credible sources I can go to!!!
    YET - You need to go with the advise of the pro's - the credible sources or your doctor!

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    Passing moral judgment on how people acted or behaved hundreds of years ago can be a risky undertaking. I do NOT want to get into a political discussion here, which is frowned upon, but the simple fact remains that in the 1830's, most American did not live in cities. They lived on farms, in many cases out in the middle of nowhere, and on the far frontiers, the threat from Indian attacks was very real. In some places, it was constant. It's all well and good for us to be smug about this subject today and tut-tut about Jackson and the Cherokee removals, but the plain and simple truth is that in the 1830's, the overwhelming number of Americans felt that this action was not only proper and deserved, but was long overdue. To them, Jackson was a hero.
    This is a good post, and worth remembering.

    But it's also worth remembering that many of the Cherokee that were displaced near the southern end of the AT were not "on the war path" but rather successful farmers themselves-- having adapted rather well to the changes that they faced. They paid a price for the stereotype that Jack makes note of-- a sterotype that was used to further very ignoble and selfish ends.

    Its also worth remembering that while many of his contemporaries supported the Cherokee Removal, the Supreme court did not. There is a cautionary tale that remains valid today, I think.

    What better place to think of these things, than the places they happened.

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