How to stay warm in a shelter?

[StorminMormon]

So my wife and I will be on the AT this weekend and this is her first backpacking trip so I'm trying to make it nice. We will have a tent with us but she seems bent on sleeping in the shelter each night. I don't know...I guess it's the novelty of the whole thing. Anyway, what can I do to help make sleeping in the shelter more comfortable? We'll both have 20 degree bags, and inflatable pads. I picked up a few "hand warmers" to open up and toss in our bag to make it a little warmer.

As near as I can tell, the temp this weekend near Hot Springs will be low 30s on one night and possibly low 20s the second night. I thought of us sleeping shoulder to shoulder in our bags, and wrapping a large space blanket over the top of us. Would that work? I know the tent will be warmer and so I'm pretty sure I'm going to setup the tent and we'll try to sleep in the shelter, and if it's not working out...we'll move to the already setup tent.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Stir Fry]

Set the tent up in the shelter if you are alone.

[StorminMormon]

Set the tent up in the shelter if you are alone.

Eh...that kind of strikes me as being in poor taste. If I setup and some other hiker comes along an hour or two later...even if it's really late, then I would feel like an idiot. It's not so much the "roof" that she likes, it's the idea of sleeping up off the ground on a flat surface...so the tent in the shelter doesn't really solve that.

[swamp dawg]

Some folks set up their tent in the shelter if it isn't full. Most hikers do not have a problem with that since there is not a whole volume of hiker this time of the year. If someone has a problem with the tent simply take it down and relocate. A bonus to setting up in a shelter is that it give an extra barrier to the shelter mice. Life is good on the trail, have a good hike.....swamp dawg

[SullyJoe]

Put hot water in you water bottle and put them in your bags a 1/2 hour before you climb in.

[SamXp]

I thought of us sleeping shoulder to shoulder in our bags, and wrapping a large space blanket over the top of us.

Makes a huge difference with two bodies in one bag

[Slo-go'en]

DO NOT use a space blanket - if you do you'll wake up soaking wet from the condensasion. (plus the noise it makes everytime you move will drive you nuts)

DO wear a hat. A fleece neck warmer thingie helps a lot too.

[StorminMormon]

Makes a huge difference with two bodies in one bag

Ha! Well, the bags we have are kinda snug as it is. It is my birthday this weekend so I'm sure I'll get the requisite hug and kiss. If nothing else, I'll try a few things and definitely report back. The hot water bottle idea sounds good - I may try that.

[Lyle]

Covering up with a space blanket risks causing condensation problems and defeating the purpose.

1) Silk bag liner helps a little and is light.

2) Mid-weight wool longjohns add a lot of comfort, keep them just for camp and sleeping so they are nice and dry

3) If it's windy, a tarp or tent fly hung across the shelter opening helps

4) Extra blue pad underneath the inflatable adds a lot of warmth.

5) Comfortable knit hat is essential.

6) Dry wool socks or, better yet, down booties are a luxury inside the sleeping bag

7) High energy food just before bed and a snack during the night helps

8) Stay well hydrated

9) If she/you needs to pee, do so. Don't try to hold it, adds tremendously to your discomfort. Getting up to pee at night isn't as bad as it sounds.

10) A t-shirt pulled over your head and worn around the neck can help block cold breezes from entering your sleeping bag every time you move if the bag isn't cinched completely closed.

11) Other insulating layers can be worn inside the bag as long as they don't compress the sleeping bag from the inside, again that defeats the purpose. Could be draped over the bag in that case. Make sure they are dry.

At the temperatures you expect, most of these will be overkill, but are good to have in your arsenal.

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!!!!

[StorminMormon]

Covering up with a space blanket risks causing condensation problems and defeating the purpose.

1) Silk bag liner helps a little and is light.

2) Mid-weight wool longjohns add a lot of comfort, keep them just for camp and sleeping so they are nice and dry

3) If it's windy, a tarp or tent fly hung across the shelter opening helps

4) Extra blue pad underneath the inflatable adds a lot of warmth.

5) Comfortable knit hat is essential.

6) Dry wool socks or, better yet, down booties are a luxury inside the sleeping bag

7) High energy food just before bed and a snack during the night helps

8) Stay well hydrated

9) If she/you needs to pee, do so. Don't try to hold it, adds tremendously to your discomfort. Getting up to pee at night isn't as bad as it sounds.

10) A t-shirt pulled over your head and worn around the neck can help block cold breezes from entering your sleeping bag every time you move if the bag isn't cinched completely closed.

11) Other insulating layers can be worn inside the bag as long as they don't compress the sleeping bag from the inside, again that defeats the purpose. Could be draped over the bag in that case. Make sure they are dry.

At the temperatures you expect, most of these will be overkill, but are good to have in your arsenal.

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!!!!

Wow, awesome suggestions. Thanks a ton. Yeah, we'll have some "wool jammies" to wear and I was definitely going to wear my cap to keep warm.

[JEBjr]

Stay at Trimpi Shelter it has a fire place!

[beartripper]

Post nine, #9 Your body has to work extra to keep a full bladder the same temperture. The sleeping bag should not be too big, fill up any extra space with coats, etc. My wife sleeps cold and it is always hard for her to keep warm early in the night. I understand what you are stating.
Good luck.

[Berserker]

Along with the suggestions for insulating layers and what not above, make sure to have adequate padding to sleep on. A lot of heat gets lost through the floor of the shelter as the floors usually consist of wood platforms sitting above the ground (i.e. there's air space underneath them).

The novelty of the shelter may wear off quick if you get in one with a lot of mice...unless of course you like mice

[Lyle]

Forgot to mention. A very lightweight ground cloth is also valuable inside a shelter. It is a clean place to lay your bags, is dry even if previous users tracked in mud or wet, and in windy conditions blocks wind from coming up between the cracks in some shelter floors.

I use polycryo (shrink wrap) but tyvek or 2 or 3 mil plastic works well also. Can usually buy it in big rolls at any hardware or XYZ Mart.

Forgotten tip number 2: If sleeping bag is too long, it is very difficult to keep warm feet. Tie a cord around the outside of the bag at the proper "shortness". Not too tight, just to compress the foot section off without completely flattening it. Some good bags are designed with an internal draw cord just for this purpose.

[StorminMormon]

The novelty of the shelter may wear off quick if you get in one with a lot of mice...unless of course you like mice

I'm curious to see how "active" the mice will be mid-November. That area got well over 3 inches of snow last weekend. I guess I'll have to wait and see. As I mentioned, I'm setting up that tent pretty much regardless. The last thing I need is for her waking up at 1:00 a.m. and demanding me to setup a tent because she's done with the idea of shelter sleeping.

[Blissful]

She will regret not being in a nice warm tent. One night in a cold shelter is enough and the novelty wears off mighty fast. Esp if this is her first backpacking trip. I'd go with the tent for a first-timer, and if novelty suits after that, do the shelter some other time.

[juma]

The shelter floors are not always flat - they often sag one way or another.

I was out in the shenandoah testing my new winter tent last weekend. the tent stayed at 45* all nite and it was 28* outside. I used a 1 pound, 6 ounce JRB quilt with my exped 9 and was comfortable.

a bivy is nice in a shelter to reduce heat loss from any wind.

[10-K]

Looks like lows in the mid 30's around Hot Springs this weekend. If you've got inflatable pads, 20* bags and wool pajamas you don't need anything else.

[StorminMormon]

Looks like lows in the mid 30's around Hot Springs this weekend. If you've got inflatable pads, 20* bags and wool pajamas you don't need anything else.

Thanks 10-k. I planned this trip about 2 months ago, and I almost decided to go last week. My birthday is this Saturday so that's why we are going but a couple months ago I thought to myself - if I'm going to go in November, better go early as you can so that it's warmer. HA HA HA. This past weekend (all the snowfall) would have been a completely different experience than the upcoming weekend.

[bigcranky]

If you can find her a pair of down booties, they do wonders both around camp and inside the sleeping bag.

+1 on the ground sheet inside the shelter, this also helps to block wind coming up through the floor boards. If you really want to be nice, bring a second pad of closed cell foam for more insulation.