How to stay warm in a shelter?

[Mags]

All good suggestions. It may be good to have some chocolate on hand so you can 'stoke the furnace' in the middle of the night should you get cold. Some quick, easily digestible calories, can help warm you up.

And, if your wife is anything like my girlfriend, taking some chocolate will give you some great brownie points.

[RevLee]

If the first night is warmer, try to stay in the shelter and then use the tent for the second colder night. You could pose it as an experiment to compare which sleeps warmer. That might resolve the issue for future trips.

[peakbagger]

A closed cell pad (ensolite) is going to be warmer then a self inflator like a Thermarest. In the winter, if I am not carrying the pad, I use both.

[SawnieRobertson]

Covering up with a space blanket risks causing condensation problems and defeating the purpose.

1) Silk bag liner helps a little and is light.

2) Mid-weight wool longjohns add a lot of comfort, keep them just for camp and sleeping so they are nice and dry

3) If it's windy, a tarp or tent fly hung across the shelter opening helps

4) Extra blue pad underneath the inflatable adds a lot of warmth.

5) Comfortable knit hat is essential.

6) Dry wool socks or, better yet, down booties are a luxury inside the sleeping bag

7) High energy food just before bed and a snack during the night helps

8) Stay well hydrated

9) If she/you needs to pee, do so. Don't try to hold it, adds tremendously to your discomfort. Getting up to pee at night isn't as bad as it sounds.

10) A t-shirt pulled over your head and worn around the neck can help block cold breezes from entering your sleeping bag every time you move if the bag isn't cinched completely closed.

11) Other insulating layers can be worn inside the bag as long as they don't compress the sleeping bag from the inside, again that defeats the purpose. Could be draped over the bag in that case. Make sure they are dry.

At the temperatures you expect, most of these will be overkill, but are good to have in your arsenal.

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!!!!

Lyle really has it all down pat. And you are a dear to care so much for her intro into trail life. Happy Birthday!--Kinnickinic

[mikecordes]

Stay in the tent.. Shelter is alwys colder than tent because the ground is the best insulator on the trail... Mice are very active in November and the temperature will be colder than you think on the mountain

[Carbo]

Just got back from a 2-day solo hike to check out the cold weather stuff. It was in the lower 40's (maybe upper 30's) with wind gusting up to 15 mph. The gear seemed ok, but for the mind it was torture! The sun set at 4:40 and dark by 5:15. After staring at "dark" for two hours inside a tent, wrapped in a sleeping bag, and realizing it would still be another 11 hours until daylight, I vowed "never again!".

How do you keep yourself occupied at night, other than the 6-8 hours of sleeping, when the nights are about 13 hours long? The hiking was great, but I am about to give up on ever doing another overnight during the short daylight hours.

[Carbo]

BTW - speaking of mice. The campsite where I stayed had bear boxes (DWG - NJ). I put my food inside the box, the mice got in and ate through the zip-locs, and of course the food as well. Happy day.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just got back from a 2-day solo hike to check out the cold weather stuff. It was in the lower 40's (maybe upper 30's) with wind gusting up to 15 mph. The gear seemed ok, but for the mind it was torture! The sun set at 4:40 and dark by 5:15. After staring at "dark" for two hours inside a tent, wrapped in a sleeping bag, and realizing it would still be another 11 hours until daylight, I vowed "never again!".

How do you keep yourself occupied at night, other than the 6-8 hours of sleeping, when the nights are about 13 hours long? The hiking was great, but I am about to give up on ever doing another overnight during the short daylight hours.

Headlamp and Campfire and a Book - stay up and don't go to sleep too early or you'll wake up a 2 am and have to wait 4 to 5 hours for dawn. If looking to maximize hiking time, do breakfast and dinner and make and break camp by headlamp. Hike before dawn and after dusk as well by headlamp if terrain and safety allows. Consider a candle or small light LED lantern for ambient light.

[StorminMormon]

How do you keep yourself occupied at night, other than the 6-8 hours of sleeping, when the nights are about 13 hours long? The hiking was great, but I am about to give up on ever doing another overnight during the short daylight hours.

Oh....I'm sure we'll figure out something to occupy ourselves. Ha ha ha. In all seriousness, she's bringing a book and we both have mp3 players. We have three boys (in-laws are watching them for our trip) so we're excited for some alone time to talk and just be together.

[Torch09]

Oh....I'm sure we'll figure out something to occupy ourselves. Ha ha ha. In all seriousness, she's bringing a book and we both have mp3 players. We have three boys (in-laws are watching them for our trip) so we're excited for some alone time to talk and just be together.

how about just one mp3 player and share the headphones... more romantic that way

[mweinstone]

i dissagree with 99% of all this. start over.

your bags are snug. danger. not cool. this alone ruins everything. bags must fit with extra room.
two pads would ruin hiking. too bulky and heavy and not usefull at all.
handwarmers are poop.
shelters arent warm. period. tents are. safty first. wife second.
any liner or extra clothes in a bag decrese comfort and increase wet. bad idea. sleep nude or in thin johns.never wool.wool is done. its over. not usefull anymore.
mice just arent a problem anywhere on the AT when you do this:
sleep in a tent.
shelters are fun to do anything but sleep in in cold. lunch sure. dinner and a fire, good. sleep,no.
the unbeliveable warmth of two in a tent will ensure she likes hiking.
the unbeliveable cold of a shelter will ensure she hates hiking.
20 degree bags arent at all for this trip. danger.
fun in a tent is funner than fun in a shelter for a couple in the cold. duh.
the privacy and security of the tent will impress her and make her happy.

[StorminMormon]

i dissagree with 99% of all this. start over.

your bags are snug. danger. not cool. this alone ruins everything. bags must fit with extra room.
two pads would ruin hiking. too bulky and heavy and not usefull at all.
handwarmers are poop.
shelters arent warm. period. tents are. safty first. wife second.
any liner or extra clothes in a bag decrese comfort and increase wet. bad idea. sleep nude or in thin johns.never wool.wool is done. its over. not usefull anymore.
mice just arent a problem anywhere on the AT when you do this:
sleep in a tent.
shelters are fun to do anything but sleep in in cold. lunch sure. dinner and a fire, good. sleep,no.
the unbeliveable warmth of two in a tent will ensure she likes hiking.
the unbeliveable cold of a shelter will ensure she hates hiking.
20 degree bags arent at all for this trip. danger.
fun in a tent is funner than fun in a shelter for a couple in the cold. duh.
the privacy and security of the tent will impress her and make her happy.

I'm sure you're either using a mobile phone, or a circa 1890s teletype (Send help! STOP The Infamouse El Guapo. STOP), but can you explain your line about "20 degree bags arent at all for this trip. danger ." Are you saying too warm, or not warm enough?

I kinda' doubt that they aren't warm enough when the lows are expected to be low 30s or high 20s. Especially when we'll have a tent and warm clothing to add comfort if necessary. And I didn't say the bags were too tight, but come on - they're mummy bags. They're not made for two people! Each of us fits quite comfortably in our bag, but no - there's not enough room for another human being in those bags.

I appreciate your comments, but would like more clarification on what you meant by the 20 degree bags = danger.

Thanks!

[Carbo]

The tent in the shelter, as mentioned earlier, should work best especially if you have a bag large enough for both of you. Things I've learned here and through my own experience for winter camping:
Dont wear a lot of layers in a sleeping bag, you tend to sweat and get colder not warmer.
Have high energy food (candy bars) with you.
Have something to occupy your time (in your case a willing spouse is great!!)
Stay hydrated.
Pee when you feel the urge, don't wait it just makes you feel worse and besides the movement of getting up will get the blood flowing.
I have to believe the best of all is having another warm body next to you - may even get too warm!
Finally if everything fails and you are just plain miserable and you don't have an exit possibility like walking back to the car, learn what you can from the experience. This happened to me in the last couple days and I came here to find out how to make things go better if there is a next time for me.

[StorminMormon]

The tent in the shelter, as mentioned earlier, should work best especially if you have a bag large enough for both of you. Things I've learned here and through my own experience for winter camping...

Awesome...thanks for the advice! I think I'll take that advice and leave the "jammies" at home and just have a good t-shirt and sleeping shorts. It's really not going to be "that cold" in perspective. I mean, I know there are dozens (if not hundreds) of men and women on this forum that have had to sleep in much colder conditions. I'll have some firewood handy and if it gets so cold in the tent we can't take it. I'll start a campfire and we'll just do jumping jacks all night.

[DavidNH]

Set the tent up in the shelter if you are alone.

For god sakes don't don't do this. If you have a tent set up.. there is no need to be in a shelter. Leave that space for others. You speak of temps in low 30's so there will be no bugs.

incidentally.. shelters may keep you dry but they won't keep you warm.

DavidNH

[StorminMormon]

For god sakes don't don't do this. If you have a tent set up.. there is no need to be in a shelter. Leave that space for others. You speak of temps in low 30's so there will be no bugs.

incidentally.. shelters may keep you dry but they won't keep you warm.

DavidNH

Yeah, don't worry - I wasn't planning on it. I've read several trail journals where hikers (after a long day) came to the shelter only to find it stuffed wall to wall with tents. I read how that really disappointed them and made for a rough "end-of-day" setup. I'd rather walk up to a shelter full of hikers, than a shelter full of tents. That would just be disheartening. Plus, if the shelter has a picnic table or other "amenity" you're basically precluding anyone else from taking advantage of those items, even when you aren't using them - e.g., I don't want to sit at a picnic table and enjoy my meal if you are "right there" in your tent doing "whatever".

[SamXp]

Oh....I'm sure we'll figure out something to occupy ourselves.

You got the idea, then! That'll warm up things in no time.

[Rain Man]

So my wife and I will be on the AT this weekend and this is her first backpacking trip so I'm trying to make it nice.

My lovely bride of 35 years has hiked with me several times on the AT, including in very cold weather. I'd say one thing is to keep the miles short, so she's not exhausted and her body (and therefore body chemistry) is totally worn down and out of whack at the end of the day. I have a hard time staying warm in that condition, even with a good sleeping bad.

Keep in mind that sleeping bag temp ratings seem to be "survival" and not "comfort." For some, a 20-degree bag in 20 degree weather is just fine. For others, it is brutal. I assume you cannot zip them together (as you have not mentioned that)? I certainly agree with placing a good Nalgene bottle full of hot water in the bags. When I do that, it's usually still warm to the touch in the morning. Wrap in something so it doesn't burn you, however!

I also agree DO NOT place a space blanket on top of your bags. Condensation will soak the bags. I like the t-shirt around the neck idea for keeping out drafts! I also like the idea of keeping your bodies fueled-up with food that they need to metabolize for overnight warmth.

I like the idea of placing something on the shelter floor to keep out drafts. Even so, lots of your heat will escape down, not just up and out. Use a good pad. Sleep with a cap or insulated head gear. Really helps. Personally, I like a "long" sleeping bag. I buy "longs" and have never noticed my feet getting cold. Easy enough to pull the bag up a bit if needed. But the main thing is you have room to put your boots (place them in an oven roaster bag) in the bottom of the sleeping bag. When others wake up to frozen boots and frozen shoelaces, you will have warm footwear! Women get cold feet easier, so take her some down booties.

A candle in a shelter sure adds nice ambiance. Makes you feel warmer! Make sure to have her favorite hot chocolate or tea. And if you're a super hubby, you might even make reservations for one of the hot spring tubs in Hot Springs at the end of the trip.

I hope you post some pics of your trip!

RainMan

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[Rain Man]

Stay at Trimpi Shelter it has a fire place!

You mean this one?! Spent chilly rainy night there this summer. The fireplace was nice!

Though, Trimpi Shelter is nowhere near Hot Springs.

RainMan

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[Berserker]

I'm curious to see how "active" the mice will be mid-November. That area got well over 3 inches of snow last weekend. I guess I'll have to wait and see. As I mentioned, I'm setting up that tent pretty much regardless. The last thing I need is for her waking up at 1:00 a.m. and demanding me to setup a tent because she's done with the idea of shelter sleeping.

In my experience snow/cold doesn't seem to have much of an effect on mouse activity. If they're there, they'll be out rooting around in everything no matter what. Good thing is it should help get your wife over the shelters, and into your tent quicker