Sticking with my Diet Plan

[Kimmee]

I am taking a week long section hike with some friends and I am concerned about how to pack for my meals since I have been on a low carb diet preparing for my hikes.

I just went down 30 pounds and have plans to hopefully lose 5 more in the next 3 weeks which is essentially my pack weight.

Are there any low or good carb recipes out there or anyone else been in this situation on the trail? I have low carb wraps and bars and always eggs for breakfast, it is mainly for my suppers I am most worried about.

[Panzer1]

if you try to maintain your low carb diet while hiking you won't have the energy to hike like you should. You will be crawling down the trail. Your friends will always have to stop and wait for you to catch up. I would forget about the diet while on the trail just don't go overboard. You will still loose weight.

Panzer

[Danielsen]

You can be just fine on a low carb diet on the trail, depending on how well your body has adjusted to ketogenic metabolism (heck, you could even have MORE energy than most thru-hikers). I keep up a 4000+ calorie a day lifestyle (hiking, running, cycling, active at work) on a low-to-no-carb diet and I do fine, and many ancient cultures undertook great migrations on similarly low-carb diets.

Basically, you're going to need to pack a lot of fat calories. Seeing as fat is more calorie-dense than carbohydrate, you could potentially work this to your advantage. Experiment with ghee, olive oil, coconut oil, and nut butters and see how much of each of them you can add into a "trail diet" of sorts to maximize calories, and then figure out how to prepack the amounts you'll need in between maildrop points (most of these work well with a bounce box since they take forever to go bad). Dry sausage is also very calorie-dense and packs some protein. Drinking a tea with gelatin mixed in once or twice a day delivers extra collagen protein (the kind your joints are made of). Canned fish like sardines aren't for everyone, but they're also a good trail food. Baking with nut flours can also yield some delicious bread-type foods, though they don't keep very long. Trail mix that goes heavy on various nuts is also good, though if you're consuming large amounts of omega-6 rich nuts be sure that you're hitting the olive oil (or fish oil) as well.

If you don't already do so, consider incorporating intermittent fasting into your life. Nothing else really streamlines your metabolism and accustoms your body to switching from blood sugar to ketones like fasting, and once you're efficient at doing so it's easy to get by on less when you're on the trail and stock up the calories when you're in town, as you can better deal with fluctuations in calorie intake.

[IronGutsTommy]

im diabetic and usually limit my carbs, but trail needs are alot different than everyday needs. more carbs and fatty foods are much needed fuel. its only a week, you wont make or break a successful 30 lb loss in one week. dinner carbs from pasta etc i wouldnt worry about. just avoid the carbs and simple sugars found in popular snacks like candy bars and the like. pack a decent gorp or just go the smoked almonds route.

[LaurieAnn]

im diabetic and usually limit my carbs, but trail needs are alot different than everyday needs. more carbs and fatty foods are much needed fuel. its only a week, you wont make or break a successful 30 lb loss in one week. dinner carbs from pasta etc i wouldnt worry about. just avoid the carbs and simple sugars found in popular snacks like candy bars and the like. pack a decent gorp or just go the smoked almonds route.

I am diabetic as well and and I try to ensure that I have good complex carbs on the trail. If not, I hit the wall and my blood sugar crashes hard. I too use things like nuts, dried chickpea snacks and such to keep the body in balance. Carbs provide the fuel you need at the time and proteins provide the fuel you need to repair your muscles.

[IronGutsTommy]

wow laurie didnt realize not only are we fellow foodies but fellow diabetics as well. yep complex carbs over simple sugars any day

[LaurieAnn]

wow laurie didnt realize not only are we fellow foodies but fellow diabetics as well. yep complex carbs over simple sugars any day

I was diagnosed in January 2009. I think being diabetic is a bit tough on a foodie but have learned how to enjoy great foods while not compromising health. Funny, I tend to be as fussy about the management as I am about cooking. My endocrinologist teases me and calls me "the poster child for proper control" and apparently I'm a rarity. So many people don't take it seriously.

In hindsight, having been undiagnosed for some time, I can clearly see why I only felt good when hiking. It was the only time, pre-diagnosis, where my body was functioning properly and the carb intake was in balance with what my body was doing.

Even for non-diabetics it is important to have the proper balance on the trail or health can suffer. Considerations include energy needs, weight maintenance, muscle health and nutrients. Being diabetic did educate me considerably on how people's bodies use food for fuel.

Had I not become pregnant, I would have headed back to University this month and started working toward my PhD in Food and Nutrition. I want to eventually become a nutritionist for diabetics. I do a lot of work on a website for a Dr. Heather Keller who is an amazing resource for me both personally and professionally. I'll be starting in a year or so through the University's online education program and then heading back to on-site classes when Kaia is a bit older.

[LaurieAnn]

Kimme... another thing you can look at with carbs is their glycemic index. A carb such as quinoa or lentils will give you a much slower and steady release of energy than a candy bar.

Danielsen... I have to respectfully disagree about some of what you say.

Ketones... spilling ketones like many of these low-carb diets promote is NOT a healthy thing. In fact ketones can be quite a dangerous thing. Ketones are a sign of improper nutrition and body starvation. Ketones are an acid which can be harmful to the body if allowed to accumulate.

Large fasts are also bad for metabolism. That type of fasting will do the opposite of kick-start your metabolism... it will slow it and the body will go into a "starvation" mode where it stores calories rather than use them effectively.

[DapperD]

if you try to maintain your low carb diet while hiking you won't have the energy to hike like you should. You will be crawling down the trail. Your friends will always have to stop and wait for you to catch up. I would forget about the diet while on the trail just don't go overboard. You will still loose weight.

Panzer

Smart Fella

[Danielsen]

Danielsen... I have to respectfully disagree about some of what you say.

Ketones... spilling ketones like many of these low-carb diets promote is NOT a healthy thing. In fact ketones can be quite a dangerous thing. Ketones are a sign of improper nutrition and body starvation. Ketones are an acid which can be harmful to the body if allowed to accumulate.

Large fasts are also bad for metabolism. That type of fasting will do the opposite of kick-start your metabolism... it will slow it and the body will go into a "starvation" mode where it stores calories rather than use them effectively.

I'm going to have to disagree in return. Ketone accumulation and the acidic state it results in is called Ketoacidosis (you probably know this) and is, as you say, dangerous, but this is primarily a concern for diabetics such as yourself. In the same way that your body has trouble regulating the sugar in your blood, it will also have trouble regulating the ketones in your blood if you enter a ketogenic state.

For the average person's metabolism, regulating ketones is not, in theory, any more difficult than regulating blood sugar. Because most people today spend so little (if any) time in ketosis, adapting to it initially can introduce symptoms like headaches, low energy, and funny-smelling breath (from the ketones being expelled), mostly due to far more ketones being initially produced than necessary. The body has to "learn," in effect, how to regulate ketone production. Once it does, ketosis is a perfectly healthy metabolic state, and many parts of your body will utilize ketones just as efficiently (or moreso) for energy as blood sugar. I would know as I spend a good amount of time there, including a lot of athletic activity.

Yes, ketones are toxic and harmful if they accumulate, but the same is true of blood sugar. That's why the body regulates blood sugar through insulin, and ketones through excretion (this is why low-carb dieters have been known to trip breathalyzers despite not drinking; some excess ketones are excreted through the lungs). After a few weeks of regular dips into ketosis the body stops over-producing them and accumulation becomes much less of a concern.

Now, I agree that long-term fasts are not beneficial for increasing one's metabolism, and I advise against them as well. I was referring specifically to "intermittent fasting," which generally involves fasts of no longer than 30 hours, usually far less (I typically utilize 14-18 hour fasts). These fasts simply downregulate insulin production and increase the energy efficiency of the metabolism. Overall calorie intake is generally the same: I might fast a few times a week but I still average about 4000 cal/day over the course of the whole 7 days. I have more energy and I recover faster, so it's clearly not doing me or any of the others who utilize intermittent fasting to positive effect either for optimizing metabolism or for weight loss any harm.

When I go ahead and indulge in foods that upregulate insulin once in a while (hard to resist a fresh apple pie), I notice a drop in energy levels until after my next fast. The fasting speeds my body's return to its preferred fat-burning state.

Now I'm not expecting anyone to necessarily agree with or believe anything I say on nutrition (and no one ever should blindly believe anything anyone says on the topic, really, as there's way too much BS out there to sort through) but the fact is that ketosis is not dangerous for most, and ketones are no more harmful than the blood sugar most modern carb-burning humans utilize as their primary energy source. I wouldn't give someone advice I thought would harm them. I am my own guinea pig on this topic and I have been impressed with the benefits I've observed in my own life from these tactics, and that's why I recommend them. Since the known biochemistry matches my experiences exactly, I'm pretty confident in what I have to say about it.

[T-Dubs]

For the average person's metabolism, regulating ketones is not, in theory, any more difficult than regulating blood sugar.

From Dr. Eades blog on ketones:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/k...m-and-ketosis/

(and as a side question, when you say 'low-carb' just how low is that?)

[Danielsen]

(and as a side question, when you say 'low-carb' just how low is that?)

Some days, I get a good dose of milk sugars, fructose from fruits (especially blueberries and the raspberries from our yard) and green leafy veggies and hot peppers, probably maxing out around 200 grams in any given day. Most days it's probably less than 60 grams, and some days are zero carb. If I averaged out the amounts over a length of time it would probably divide to about 60/30/10 (fat/protein/carbohydrate). I use plenty of dairy since it doesn't give me problems, but any gluten revives my eczema and makes my joints hurt.

[LaurieAnn]

Danielsen there is a big difference between a state of ketoacidosis and passing ketones. The former can be life-threatening (and it is a diabetic thing) and that latter (for anyone) just isn't healthy. Also the amount of fat consumption (60) is quite bad for your health over the long term.

The funny smelling breath is from the acetone part of the ketone being released. Using ketones for energy isn't a good thing and can cause adverse effects. While our bodies and brains will function on ketones it's not exactly advisable. When the body burns excess amounts of fat to get energy your body is burning fat to get energy the moderate to excessive amounts of ketones in your urine are dangerous. They upset the chemical balance of the blood and the acidity of the body. That acid can also build up in your tissue and be secreted in your sweat. That's why people first starting out on these low/no carb diets often have an unusual smell to their breath and skin.

What ever happened to a properly balanced diet and exercise? Why is it that people have to go on these fad diets like low-carbing? Granted I feel that the average North American consumes way too many carbs. It does seem to me that the high-fat, low carb Atkins way of doing things is what probably lead to the man's heart attack. And having 60 percent fat in the diet isn't healthy either. In the long run that can have serious side effects on organs such as the heart and liver.

And before one embarks on a low-carb or no-carb diet they should have their blood glucose levels checked.... why? Because if they are an undiagnosed diabetic they could cause even greater harm to their body. The liver should also be monitored and one should speak with their doctor about a cut off point for the amount of ketones that are safe for that individual. Also if a low/no carb diet isn't done properly then there can be issues with muscle wasting.

[Danielsen]

Danielsen there is a big difference between a state of ketoacidosis and passing ketones. The former can be life-threatening and that latter just isn't healthy. Also the amount of fat consumption (60) is quite bad for your health over the long term.

The funny smelling breath is from the acetone part of the ketone being released.

What ever happened to a properly balanced diet and exercise? Why is it that people have to go on these fad diets like low-carbing? Granted I feel that the average North American consumes way too many carbs. It does seem to me that the high-fat, low carb Atkins way of doing things is what probably lead to the man's heart attack.

If by "passing ketones" you mean what the body does when it's unaccustomed to Ketosis, that's not unhealthy. Once it gets adjusted it won't pass them anymore, it'll just burn them as fuel. And I'm sorry, but consuming healthy natural fats (saturates, monounsaturates, and limited polyunsaturates) has never been shown to be unhealthy. You can trace all of that fat=bad dogma back to Ancel Keys and a congress heavily invested in the grain industry several decades ago. There's no legitimate science behind it.

I am eating a properly balanced diet and excersizing quite a bit. From a historical perspective, humans eating grains and consuming carbohydrates for their primary energy source are, rather, the "fad diets" in this comparison. 4 million years of genetic adaptation has not been significantly altered by 10,000 years of agriculture. I eat according to what anthropology applied with reasoning tells me is "natural food" for humans, and what the biochemistry backs up. If I had a cat, I would not feed it grain-based kibbles either; what cat in the wild ever munched a head of barley? I do not eat according to any diets or rules. I eat what makes me feel good, and if it does that despite the pounding I give my body, something must be going right.

I've had this conversation enough times to know that we're probably not going to come to a common perspective on this. If your eating habits work for you, great. I wish you a long and healthy life.

But let's get one fact straight: Dr. Atkins did not, as some say, die of a heart attack. He died of a head injury after slipping on ice. This is a widely available historical fact. At the time of his death he was dealing with some cardiac issues after a heart attack which he survived. This attack was attributed to a chronic infection. Aside from the inspection, several physicians noted that he was in excellent cardiovascular health for a man his age and that the attack was unlikely to be related to his diet, including a member of the American Heart Association's board of directors (a group that is notoriously opposed to low-carb diets). So there's not much of an example to be made of Robert Atkins against high-fat low-carb diets.

[Danielsen]

I don't know why that last paragraph includes the fragment "aside from the inspection." It's getting late, and I can tell.

[Kimmee]

Thank you Daniel and Laurie for your insight tips etc... that was exactly the information I was looking for and when I have a few more minutes I will expand on my ideas.

Tommy - you too make sense where I should not worry too much. My thing is I have worked for almost three months getting my appetite and cravings under control as well as portion sizes that I am afraid that not keeping my strict regimen will cause me to back slide once I get home. Also this section hike is just prep for my palns on a thru hike!

[LaurieAnn]

Sorry I stand corrected.

There is also evidence that such a diet can affect performance adversely because of the low muscle glycogen levels even over the long term. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Ketogenic diets are used for prevent seizures though because of the effect they have on the brain.

PS I hope you aren't offended by the debate and I must further apologize for not fact checking the heart business about Dr. Atkins. Perhaps we should take the debate off board so that we don't continue to hijack the thread? I'm quite interested in learning from this conversation.

[Erin]

Pretty interesting reading actually.
Ghee as a flavoring,( I had it with grits) and added it to our meals. Dehydrated beans heated with water and cheese for supper on a pita or wrap and one package of taco bell sauce. Very filling. A great starter lunch is fresh avocado smashed on a wheat bread sub roll with sunflower seeds on top of the avocado. Tuna packet with la relish packet and one third of thel low cal mayo packet and pepper is a great lunch. Peanuts and cashews (unsalted for me) for snacks. I don't like sweets so this is what I do but I always carry one orange and eat it on day 2. The sunflower seeds without the seed part were the snack that got grabbed up first. Dried papaya was a big hit too. The fiber one bars made everyone gassy so we were done with those pretty quickly. I hike with a vegetarian so I got alot of ideas from her.

[DapperD]

the amount of fat consumption (60) is quite bad for your health over the long term.

The funny smelling breath is from the acetone part of the ketone being released. Using ketones for energy isn't a good thing and can cause adverse effects. While our bodies and brains will function on ketones it's not exactly advisable. When the body burns excess amounts of fat to get energy your body is burning fat to get energy the moderate to excessive amounts of ketones in your urine are dangerous. They upset the chemical balance of the blood and the acidity of the body. That acid can also build up in your tissue and be secreted in your sweat. That's why people first starting out on these low/no carb diets often have an unusual smell to their breath and skin.

What ever happened to a properly balanced diet and exercise? Why is it that people have to go on these fad diets like low-carbing? Granted I feel that the average North American consumes way too many carbs. It does seem to me that the high-fat, low carb Atkins way of doing things is what probably lead to the man's heart attack. And having 60 percent fat in the diet isn't healthy either. In the long run that can have serious side effects on organs such as the heart and liver.

And before one embarks on a low-carb or no-carb diet they should have their blood glucose levels checked.... why? Because if they are an undiagnosed diabetic they could cause even greater harm to their body. The liver should also be monitored and one should speak with their doctor about a cut off point for the amount of ketones that are safe for that individual. Also if a low/no carb diet isn't done properly then there can be issues with muscle wasting.

LaurieAnn, I too have read and understand that a high-fat diet/approach is simply unhealthy. Does it work? Maybe, albeit temporarily. The fact of the matter is long term it will not. It will also eventually make you sick and unhealthy. And anything that cannot be continued for ones lifetime, and that is unhealthy and will make one unhealthy in the long run is simply not a desireable/successful approach. This is what the American Heart Association thinks of the Atkins Diet/Approach:http://suewidemark.com/atkinsdiet_aha.htm

[T-Dubs]

LaurieAnn, I too have read and understand that a high-fat diet/approach is simply unhealthy. Does it work? Maybe, albeit temporarily. The fact of the matter is long term it will not. It will also eventually make you sick and unhealthy. And anything that cannot be continued for ones lifetime, and that is unhealthy and will make one unhealthy in the long run is simply not a desireable/successful approach. This is what the American Heart Association thinks of the Atkins Diet/Approach:http://suewidemark.com/atkinsdiet_aha.htm

Where to start?
In terms of evolution our bodies would be programmed to run on energy-dense, readily available foods. Fat is the preferred source of this energy. Most of the nutritional information in the last 50 years is off-base, corrupted by moneyed concerns. The Keys study, reference above, put us on a path to obesity and disease. Humans are not designed to eat a diet that is predominately grain-based.

I've read some on nutrition recently and have gone from a vegetarian diet to eating 'heartheathywholegrains' to a predominately carnivorous diet. My blood work is vastly improved and I have never been in better health.

Some basic information:
http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724

http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/w...0406-rpen.html

The 'science' behind the FDA's food pyramid was never any sort of consensus. They enacted these recommendation with the caveat of, 'well, we have to do something' rather than make a complete investigation of this subject. We are also learning so much more about the components of our diet and the hormonal response to the food we eat. Omega oils were relatively unknown at that time, the make-up and role of cholesterol wasn't clear.

If you have an interest, I'd guess your pathway to learning about nutrition would go something like:

Why do we need all these diets?
What's wrong with our food that it makes us sick?
Who benefits from this misinformation?
What are we designed to eat naturally?
Who decided what is healthy and what is not?
Where does our food actually come from? (not pretty)
When were we at our best as a species?
Why do grains make us smaller, dumber and sicker?
How do we control our hormones for optimum health?
Finally, what's for dinner that actually matters?

As to the original point of the post topic--look into making pemmican. That would be the perfect low-carb food for a trip. Add in some fruit for a change of pace.