Countering the cold in an unusual hike schedule.

[1forcamping]

The big problems I had with down stuff I tried is that it didn't take much dampness for it to all but stop working, and on my last outing we had another torrential rain that penetrated even the most waterproof materials we had. I wouldn't want to get caught in a storm like that with down.

At the moment, I'm thinking a Ultralamina 15f bag with a set of fleece base layers and a good quality pad. But with that in mind, if anyone knows how I could fix the moisture problems or seriously sees that set up as pootentially dangerous, I'm all ears.

I'd rather be wrong than cold.

[1forcamping]

I often choose being happy over being right.

Oh, trust me. That's not a problem. I'd just rather not lug a 0F synthetic bag if I can get away with a 15.

[10-K]

But with that in mind, if anyone knows how I could fix the moisture problems or seriously sees that set up as pootentially dangerous, I'm all ears.

I'd rather be wrong than cold.

Mont Bell sells a goretex bivy that I got to use with my MB superstretch down bag.

I had the great misfortune of being packed like a sardine in a shelter during a rain/sleet storm with a steady drip right over my bag all night.

Goretex bivy saved the day. My bag stayed completely dry. I'm sure it would work with most any bag.

[1forcamping]

That definitely sounds like an option. Thanks for the input.

[Nean]

Bring a dog...

[mississippi_dan]

I think a 15 degree bag is adequate. Be sure you have a good mat. You will likely camp on ice/snow or in one of the shelters. I've done Standing Indian to NOC in January. I was a little cool at Carter Gap shelter because the floor is elevated, and it was about 5-10 degrees that night. I used a 15 degree bag with an Insul air mat. I did fine the rest of the trip.

Dan

[Moose2001]

[QUOTE=1forcamping;1053552] on my last outing we had another torrential rain that penetrated even the most waterproof materials we had. I wouldn't want to get caught in a storm like that with down.QUOTE]

That's an interesting comment. If you're not keeping your sleeping bag dry, you've got bigger problems than trying to figure out which type of bag you want. Keeping down dry is a simple task. Several people have told you how in the previous posts. Down or synthetic is your choice. You have to carry and use whatever you select. However, you need to look at the way you're carrying your bag and make sure it stays dry. Spending a night in a wet syntheic bag will be a cold and miserable night.

[1forcamping]

[QUOTE=Moose2001;1053704
That's an interesting comment. If you're not keeping your sleeping bag dry, you've got bigger problems than trying to figure out which type of bag you want. Keeping down dry is a simple task. Several people have told you how in the previous posts. Down or synthetic is your choice. You have to carry and use whatever you select. However, you need to look at the way you're carrying your bag and make sure it stays dry. Spending a night in a wet syntheic bag will be a cold and miserable night.[/QUOTE]

My problem isn't keeping the bag dry in my pack, it's finding a shelter tha can hold up to torrential rain. If I could find sucha shelter, down would probably be the most practical.

[1forcamping]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm definitely concidering many of the options given here.
I don't really know what to expect on this hike, so the help is very much appreciated.

[leaftye]

My problem isn't keeping the bag dry in my pack, it's finding a shelter tha can hold up to torrential rain. If I could find sucha shelter, down would probably be the most practical.

I bet a cuben fiber Lightheart 1P tent would do the trick.

[The Solemates]

you need a down bag, and it needs to be 0 deg.

we do quite a bit of winter hiking in the south. it gets down to below 0 degrees F on many occasions. factor in the windchill, and we've had many nights around -10F or below.

know what you are getting yourself into. take several weekend winter trips on particularly cold nights before you set off on your hike.

[Lyle]

Well, NEED is a pretty definitive statement. I've hiked southern Virginia during a blizzard with temps well below zero. I had a very used synthetic bag which was originally very liberally rated to 15*. I survived, and many others have as well.

That said, today I would carry at least a good quality, conservatively rated, 15* bag for a fall/winter AT hike in the south. Want to assure a comfy night 98% of the time, a zero rated, high quality bag doesn't weigh that much more. Does cost though.

Making do with a lesser quality bag?

Pads are paramount. As others have stated, two pads are great.

Head insulation is necessary.
Extra clothes can help, but make sure not to go overboard and compress your bag from the inside.

I use a silk liner year round in my good bags, keeps them cleaner and adds a bit of warmth (not the 9* most claim).

Hot water bottles can help a lot on the occasional extreme night, but I do not like the idea of taking water into my bag, so generally avoid it.

Eat high energy food just before bed and during the night if you get chilled.

Stay hydrated, force yourself to drink in cold weather, more than you feel like drinking. It's important.

If you are convinced to go with Down (best option) just make sure to take every opportunity to dry it out. Hang if for a couple hours in camp on clear, sunny, or breezy days. Take it out and place in the sun at lunch, when the opportunity presents in town, run it through a dryer cycle. The biggest detriment to good loft is the nightly addition of sweat/breath you put into the bag and, in some cases, tent condensation. This is an incremental damping. Counter that accumulation whenever possible. Keeping it dry from rain is easy.

One trick for keeping boots thawed and water liquid - just before bed, heat water, fill bottles Nalgene work well), place a wool sock over the bottle, and place inside boot. In AM, water is still liquid and boot is not frozen.

My biggest comfort factor once all the basics are taken care of, Down Booties!!!! These are great inside your bag to keep your feet toastie on the coldest nights. Usually have to remove them at some point during the night. Don't use them, and you will take hours for cold feet to warm up. At least I do.

Improvisation can and does work, but good planning and great gear will keep you more comfortable.

Good Luck, and HAVE FUN!!!!

[Lyle]

My problem isn't keeping the bag dry in my pack, it's finding a shelter tha can hold up to torrential rain. If I could find sucha shelter, down would probably be the most practical.

Well, what shelter are you using, or considering using? Which one failed you? Did you get wet for leakage, water flowing underneath, or condensation? Maybe that's were you should start trying to figure out a better solution.

Granted, some torrential rains can be a challenge, but they aren't THAT common and shouldn't dictate you gear selection that you have to live with every day.

Plan to have gear to be reasonably comfortable in the conditions EXPECTED, and survivable in the conditions reasonably POSSIBLE. That has worked for me for 30+ years of serious backpacking.

[The Solemates]

Making do with a lesser quality bag?

Pads are paramount. As others have stated, two pads are great.

that works for some people. i'm a one pad kinda guy even in the coldest conditions, and just use a better bag to compensate.

the bottom line is to know your gear, your comforts, and your limitations before you attempt a long distance hike.

[1forcamping]

Well, what shelter are you using, or considering using? Which one failed you? Did you get wet for leakage, water flowing underneath, or condensation? Maybe that's were you should start trying to figure out a better solution.

Granted, some torrential rains can be a challenge, but they aren't THAT common and shouldn't dictate you gear selection that you have to live with every day.

Plan to have gear to be reasonably comfortable in the conditions EXPECTED, and survivable in the conditions reasonably POSSIBLE. That has worked for me for 30+ years of serious backpacking.

I've tried a couple types of shelters. I'm leaning toward my hammock and a rain fly right now. It wasn't able to stand up to the storm I was talking about, but it stood up just as well as my tent, and didn't have the condensation issues on the warmer nights.

As far as expected conditions, the area where I'll be ending the hike has had blizzards with 36"+ snowfalls for the past several years running. So although I'm not planning on needing severe weather protection for most of the hike, I know that at some point it will probably be nessicary.

And to put some minds at ease, this won't be the first time I've camped out in extreme cold. This will just be one of my frist longterm stays in winter conditions, and I know that small discomforts that were pretty easy to shrug off during my weekend trips, can really wreck a good attitude over long periods of time.

Thanks for all the help by the way.
I think I'm pretty much sold on the 0 deg down bag with a good mat.

Now to add to the questions, I have a good quality down fill coat that I'm planning to use for a camp coat. Does anyone have any tips for keeping it dry during rain or snow, or should I go for a coat with Primaloft?

I was thinking of just putting a rain coat on over it, but that would just compress the insulatioin. Not to mention make me sweat like a pig.

Thanks again for the info.

[buz]

Regarding your rain coat over down coat question, that combo is my go to skiing set up. Down coat, goretex rain coat over it. Any rain coat will work, if it is cold and windy, you will want the wind break affect of the rain coat. Size of rain coat is important, but as long as it doesn't totally smash the down, you will get plenty of insulation from the two layers trapping air anyway. If you get hot, open up, if you are hot and it is rainy, take the down off, or get out of the rain. Plus, the down coat will keep you a lot warmer in your bag, I just drape it over my torso in the bag if needed.

good luck,

[northernstorm]

Nothing kills someones trip more than sheer and brutal cold. Take a 10 degree bag. It still gets cold in the south during winter. I mean damn cold. You will be out there for most of the winter and spring. Reward yourself with warmth and comfort at the end of each day with a 10 degree bag. It still drops down to the teens in winter and spring all the way through Virginia.

[northernstorm]

Oh! Almost forgot to mention that you can buy a compression sack for your sleeping bag. Since you said you will be taking synthetic sleeping gear, they tend to be extremely bulky. Invest the 11 bucks on a compression sack for your bag, it will shrink it's size to that of a watermelon. Great thing to have for synthetic bags. Down packs real nice, but it seems as though you don't like the down.
I think any decent outfitter should have them or just order them off of camphor, I know they have them.

[northernstorm]

*campmor* not camphor, hahaha!

[1forcamping]

Regarding your rain coat over down coat question, that combo is my go to skiing set up. Down coat, goretex rain coat over it. Any rain coat will work, if it is cold and windy, you will want the wind break affect of the rain coat. Size of rain coat is important, but as long as it doesn't totally smash the down, you will get plenty of insulation from the two layers trapping air anyway. If you get hot, open up, if you are hot and it is rainy, take the down off, or get out of the rain. Plus, the down coat will keep you a lot warmer in your bag, I just drape it over my torso in the bag if needed.

good luck,

Nothing kills someones trip more than sheer and brutal cold. Take a 10 degree bag. It still gets cold in the south during winter. I mean damn cold. You will be out there for most of the winter and spring. Reward yourself with warmth and comfort at the end of each day with a 10 degree bag. It still drops down to the teens in winter and spring all the way through Virginia.

Oh! Almost forgot to mention that you can buy a compression sack for your sleeping bag. Since you said you will be taking synthetic sleeping gear, they tend to be extremely bulky. Invest the 11 bucks on a compression sack for your bag, it will shrink it's size to that of a watermelon. Great thing to have for synthetic bags. Down packs real nice, but it seems as though you don't like the down.
I think any decent outfitter should have them or just order them off of camphor, I know they have them.

Well, I've been convinced. I'm going to stick with my down coat, and I've just ordered a 15 degree down bag from REI. I found some stuff called "Down Proof" from Nikwik that I'm going to try.

I think with the information everyone here has given me I shouldn't have much trouble staying warm and dry.

Thanks to everyone for the input.