Winter Shelter Options

[Danielsen]

I'm interested in doing some winter backpacking on the nearby Finger Lakes Trail, and while I'm used to hiking in this area during the winter, I have no experience camping in the winter. So my question is: what shelter types work well in the winter?

Are tarps feasible?

Are "3-season" tents suitable for non-alpine winter conditions?

I know some love winter hammocking but I don't want to deal with buying overquilts and etc. and while I own and sometimes use a Hennessy, it's generally not my thing.

Would it be better to just stick with my Outdoor Research Bivy? They are made for alpine conditions, of course, and probably are better in winter than other seasons, but the comfort factor is a bit lacking.

I've been looking at ultralight tarptent-type shelters as well. Anyone use these in the winter?

The region I'll be in often sees overall snow cover as deep as a few feet with high drifts here and there, with calm, long-lasting but heavy snowfall being a common form of precipitation. And then sometimes it all melts and the sky turns sleety..

If you've got experience backpacking/camping in the winter with any of these shelter types, I'd love to hear your input.

[couscous]

Lots of variables, but tarps and 3-season tents are feasible. For me it's much simpler and warmer to sleep on the ground in winter, so I leave the hammocks at home and grab one of my tarp tents. Key point with either system is adequate insulation underneath.
I hear igloos and snow caves are a great option if you have the time to build them.

[Danielsen]

Alright, so I should probably carry a bigger/thicker pad? I'm used to just using a trimmed-down closed-cell foam pad.

How well do you think that shelter type would hold up under say a 6-inch overnight snowfall?

[Tom Murphy]

I use a 3 season tent for winter camping in the White Mountains (NH).

- Below tree line camping only

- Fully guyed out and set-up near natural wind blocks

- Build snow walls around base of tent ~ 1 foot high - because I found snow could blow thru the mesh of the tent

- Create / allow ventilation at top ridge of tent

- If snowing at bed time or expected - set alarm on watch and brush off snow in middle of the night - maybe multiple times

[Tom Murphy]

two pads - one inflatable and one closed cell

www.wintercampers.com

http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/winter/wintcamp.shtml

[Danielsen]

Those are some great tips and links, thanks!

[garlic08]

Definitely take two full-length pads. For one of your pads, consider Reflectix duct insulation. It's basically bubble wrap made with foil-coated mylar. I've used that with a Z-Rest and it's worked OK. In my experience, an inflatable has not been necessary. With repeated inhalation of damp breath, you could get some freezing inside an inflatable.

Good advice about handling snowfall above. A silnylon tarptent works OK in snow. Be more cautious of condensation with zippers--they have been known to freeze shut.

Instead of or in addition to snow stakes, bring a little extra cord and make deadmen--a horizontal stick in a snow trench with a loop of cord up out of the snow. You'll probably have to abandon these since they'll likely freeze solid. One advantage of my Tarptent is that it only has four stake-out points, so two skis and one pole taken apart hold it up, with the other pole as support, so no messing around with staking.

The attached photo is of my old floorless Tarptent Virga on a ski trip at Crater Lake in Oregon, with over ten feet of snow on the ground and another foot that night.

[garlic08]

Oops, forgot the photo:

[Danielsen]

Sleeping on 10+ feet of snow? And I thought Buffalo winters got crazy!

I'm in the process of constructing my own 3-season tent but I don't think the design is well suited to winter, so I'm starting to ponder making a specialized one... How serious does condensation get on the fly? I'm thinking of a partially single-wall construction...

[Tom Murphy]

Your winter tent needs to be able to handle the potential snow loads. And if your are above tree-line it needs to be able to handle significant wind loads.

So if you are considering a tarp or constructing your own tent, you need to think of the weight of the snow and wind...

Look at the design of the 4 season tents and start listing the differences between them and the 3 season ones.

I use my MH lightwedge 2 as a solo tent in the winter and it has a serious drawback as a winter tent but I have managed to work around them

To expand on previous post:

- more than ~ two inches of snow and all the sides of the fly are touching the tent body, so I make sure the snow doesn't build up over night or cancel the trip if they forecast significant snow - it can really stink getting up AND going out into a storm every 2 hours from 6 pm to 8 am to brush off snow

- the snow blows in under fly and through the mesh, so I build snow walls about a foot from the edge of the fly and about a foot high as a wind block [I don't want to seal up the bottom edge becuase I want circulation to reduce condensation on the fly]

- the 3 season tent does not have a ridge line vent so I leave the top of the rain fly door open to promote circulation

- the 3 season tent traps almost no heat so I don't get the + 5-10 deg F heat gain a 4 season tent might get you

I suggest a tippi or pyramid design for a winter tarp.

I suggest you prove out your design by camping in backyard or at TH near car before camping in the woods.

I am sure that you can make a bivy / tarp combo work.

sectionhiker.com - Phil has winter camped with a tarp tent and is planning to winter camp with a tarp/bivy this year

Good luck.

[JAK]

I like a bivy and tarp, and 2 blue foam pads, because it is pretty flexible. You can use it under a big spruce tree, or use it in a trench type snow shelter, or out in the open if it is mild enough.

[Danielsen]

Yeah, I'm starting to lean towards just the bivy/tarp. The tarp portion of the "tarptent" I'm making should do just fine, and then in warmer weather it'll be easy to just switch the bivy out for the internal tent portion.

Regardless of what I go with, there will certainly be backyard testing conducted prior to actual expedition use! Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

[No Belay]

Check out the Scarp1 design from Tarptents. Henry put a lot of testing time into this computer designed 4 season tent and it's rock solid. I bought one of the first to hit the woods 2 years ago and have used the updated fly since last Dec. Spent a lot of blowing snow nights in it without a hitch while my hiking partner's tents were either flattened or so condensated that they were soaked. Winter isn't a good to use marginal equipment. I winter camped in a Golite Cave for three winters and it made for a lot of long miserable nights.

Savor Happy!
TaTonka

[Father Dragon]

First, I agree with using two pads. As someone who has had the experience of suffering through a bitter and potentially dangerous, cold night, staying warm is of key concern for me.

One thing to think about is, if you get cold and tired, and things turn "Sleety" (or worse), what kind of shelter do you want to set up and climb into? Do you want something that you have to crawl or roll into, or do you want something that you can get into easily, change clothes, and hunker down in if need be? I'll tell you, if I'm in a blizzard I don't want to be waiting it out in a bivouac or tent I can't sit up or sprawl out in... no real fun there, for me at least.

[babbage]

Yeah, I'm starting to lean towards just the bivy/tarp. The tarp portion of the "tarptent" I'm making should do just fine, and then in warmer weather it'll be easy to just switch the bivy out for the internal tent portion.

Regardless of what I go with, there will certainly be backyard testing conducted prior to actual expedition use! Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

I found winter nights to be too long for a bivy. That much time in such a confined space ended my bivy in the closet where it has been for years.

[JAK]

There is alot to be said for crawling into a tent to get yourself re-organized when things get nasty out. I've considered a very small kids square dome tent, big enough to sit up in, but not big enough to sleep in, and then just let the bivystick out the door. I would need to modify the door though because it was attached to the floor instead of at the top. Anyhow, I use the poncho tarp in a similar way in a compact pup tent under a tree. The blue foam pads help alot also, and the right clothes, and by having less stuff to keep organized. Clear plastic containers or bags help too.

[Danielsen]

Thanks again to all with the advice.

Fortunately I've generally been comfortable in my bivvy for a good night's sleep, even in some pretty cold conditions. I'm a pretty small guy and I don't have much trouble stretching out and even fitting some gear inside.

JAK, I do have a little cheap dome tent sitting around somewhere. I'll have to get it out and experiment with it once the snow starts falling. I don't know how well it would handle weight from snowfall, though.

[Doctari]

"2 season"
"3 season"
"4 season"

Tents are (Unless doing an assault on Everest) are IMHO for the most part marketing tools used by the tent makers. As in real-estate, "Location, location, location" can make or break your winter set up.

I tarp (& hammock) in winter quite often & have had great success with my tarp, in temps down to 8o & wind gusts up to at least 50 MPH, so if your bivy works for you, it's a "4 season shelter". Naturally, as others have mentioned, you will need extra insulation & all that. Just be prepared, have ample food & try to pick a location with ample protection from the wind. Also, look around for "micro climates" where it can be as much as 10 degrees warmer than as little as 50' away. At Hammock forums we do a yearly winter camp out, & have had temp ranges by that much with nearly similar thermometers, just at different locations in a few acres.

[Danielsen]

That's a good point about locations. Finding warmer spots is always good, as well as making sure you're not in a spot that'll get buried under a snowdrift if a wind kicks up in the night!

[The Solemates]

I do a 5-day trip every year just south of finger lakes, right across the border in PA, over Thanksgiving. I leave the Saturday before and hike til Wednesday, this year that is 20-24 November. While not quite winter yet, it is definitely winter conditions. We get snowed on every year and there is always snow on the ground. Nighttime temps were below 0 degrees 3 years ago. I'm always looking for a hiking partner. Over the past 2 years I've gone solo due to my partner backing out both times. I'd rather go with someone. If you are interested this year, let me know.