cleanliness on the trail

[turtle fast]

I have to agree with Pootz, I have noticed the 'high tech' clothing retains smell...especially polypropolyne. On the trail their is NO reason not to wash up at LEAST once or twice a week in towns. I wash my hands everyday with sanitizer and put some on my armpits (it works)...haven't tried 'south of the border'..kinda afraid to see what would happen. Personal wipes for there at least every other day. There is no reason to REALLY STINK bad.

[burger]

I disagree. It doesn't take but a tiny bit of biodegradeble soap in the water to wash down. Even a water wipe down helps. What's wrong with just carrying some wet wipes to pack out and keeping the "nether regions" clean?

Multiply a little bit of soap times thousands and thousands of hikers each year on the trail, most of which camp in high-use areas, and you have a big environmental mess. I don't see how dumping soapy water is consistent with "leave no trace" camping. If the water is soapy enough that you couldn't drink it, then it's probably poisonous to plants and animals.

Seriously just take a little effort.

All I can say to that is hike your own hike. If you don't want to hang around smelly hikers, don't stay in shelters. If you find someone's smell on the trail unpleasant, speed up and pass them or slow down and let them pass. As several folks above mentioned, even the best-scrubbed hiker will smell bad if they're wearing synthetic clothes. Just live with it.

[JAK]

Exactly! I seldom use soap. A cold water or heat a little does the trick.

Yes alot of people think that soap is neccessary, that without it you don't kill germs. In fact most of washing is not about killing germs but just loosening them up and rinsing them off, along with some dead skin. You never rinse off all the germs either, and don't really want to. It is really more a case of maintaining a natural healthy and diverse eco-system on your skin and other places. Most of the microbes and friendly, and the stuff secreted by your body and in your dead skin is all part of maintaining a healthy mix where the good bugs greatly outnumber and displace the bad bugs. Water is mostly all that is needed. Warmer water works better because it works as a better solvent, and the higher temperature makes the oils on your skin less viscous also. Cold water will work though, especially on a long swim or walk in the rain.

Your nose knows the difference between healthy smells and unhealthy smells. It is true that we have gotten a little over-sensitive to body odour. A little muskiness isn't neccessarily a bad thing in the woods. Still, foul is foul. The more foul we smell, the more we should know it is time for a good wash and rinse cycle, and that we should avoid other people when they are smelling more than just a little too ripe. Even the most foul smelling animals understand this.

[JAK]

Multiply a little bit of soap times thousands and thousands of hikers each year on the trail, most of which camp in high-use areas, and you have a big environmental mess. I don't see how dumping soapy water is consistent with "leave no trace" camping. If the water is soapy enough that you couldn't drink it, then it's probably poisonous to plants and animals.


All I can say to that is hike your own hike. If you don't want to hang around smelly hikers, don't stay in shelters. If you find someone's smell on the trail unpleasant, speed up and pass them or slow down and let them pass. As several folks above mentioned, even the best-scrubbed hiker will smell bad if they're wearing synthetic clothes. Just live with it.

Is there anything wrong with washing with just water, no soap?
How about mixing in a little wood ash?

Are you advocating no washing at all, or just no soap?

[GA BASS]

Take a bath you smelly ba$*#rd.

[Lyle]

Well, "typical" hiker smell is not all that unpleasant once you become one of them. I imagine it still shocks town folk and those who give us rides.

Try to clean up some for hitching and shopping. If staying in town, avail yourself of a shower and at least wear some clothes into the shower with you. Shampoo works wonders on dirty nylon shorts t-shirts. Then just wear them dry as you shop/eat.

I try to wipe down every evening, either wet bandanna or wet wipe. Helps to cut down the extreme offensive odors, plus removes some of the salt build-up, so reduces chaffing.

Some hikers, either due to their particular body chemistry or total lack of hygiene do REEK. These folks are offensive even to other typical hikers. No real excuse for that.

One week is not enough time to become accustomed to the smell, and thus stop being annoyed by it. Give yourself a couple or three weeks and you will probably not even notice it most of the time.

I remember accounts of the differences between native Americans and the European "invaders". Each side was appalled by the "stink" of the others - solely what was considered normal to each group.

[JAK]

Surely the spread and proliferation of certain germs and illnesses from humans to humans can't be good for the evironment either. Many animals are affected by human borne germs and illnesses. What we call beaver fever, they may well call human fever.

[JAK]

There is probably a wide range of what would be healthy. It should really be about health and hygiene, and the environment. Smell is just an indicator. If we are accustomed to no smell at all it might be a poor indicator, but as we get used to healthy and unhealthy hiker smell, it should be an excellent indicator. Some of us need to learn to listen. On high use trails personal hygiene is very important, not just for you and other people, but also for the environment.

I would suggest that it can be done without soap, but that a very small amount of an environmentally friendly soap might allow you to use cold water, which would save on fuel, biofuel or otherwise, which might be a good trade-off for the environment. A little wood ash might be used when biofuel is can be used, at least for dishes and laundry. You have to be a little more careful using wood ash for your body, so you use it a little more sparingly. Your body probably already has all the chemicals you need for washing already on it though, and especially in your hair. You just need hot water, or at least water that is not too cold, to free up and release those chemicals and spread them around before rinsing most of them off. That is the most basic and fundamental form of washing. Just getting yourself wet, and then drying yourself off.

That raises a good point also. Some sort of towel. Perhaps something wet to help scrub, and something at least initially dry to help dry yourself off, and in the process help slough off some dead skin and germs and stuff. Then the next step would be to wash and rinse those items, the wash cloth and the towel.

Then the business of laundry comes up, as well as your pot and mug and spoon. What order should you do things in? Perhaps wash your body first, then have breakfast, and then do your dishes. Can the same wash cloth and towel be used that was used for your body? What if you want to do a pair of socks also, or some underwear? This is all very interesting stuff. The use of lots of hot water makes these questions much simpler. When you are in places where fuel is scarce, or worse, when water is scarce, then things get more complicated. It is important to have a good routine though. Understanding the chemistry and biology helps, and then you have to establish a good routine.

The thing is, we are all creatures of habit, not scientists. This is as true for scientists as it is for the rest of us. We become accustomed to doing things a certain way in the city, and then either try to do them the same way or abandon them altogether when we are in the woods. What we really need to do is start from scratch, figure out what needs to be done from first principles what will work in the woods, or whatever environment we happen to be in, and then establish some routine and get the job done. Sometimes we can be told or shown what to do, but in this day and age we don't always have reliable experts to learn from, and at the end of the day we have to make our own choices, and establish our own routines. It can be lots of fun though, even for those of use less anally rententive than others.

[Gray Blazer]

I use wet wipes at lest once a day - usually at night before bed. I pack them out.

That's what I'm talkin' about.

One time I passed some little kids in Grayson Highlsnds after I had been out a few days. The little girl yelled back to her Mom, "Hey Mom! I smell some more ponies ahead!"

[berkshirebirder]

The little girl yelled back to her Mom, "Hey Mom! I smell some more ponies ahead!"

That explains why you're so humble, GB.

[Panzer1]

cleanliness aside, every hiker should at least carry a small bar of soap just in case they come in contact with poison ivy. Its everywhere.

Panzer

[Gray Blazer]

That explains why you're so humble, GB.

Definitely a humbling experience.

[Panzer1]

my trail philosophy is to wash daily, whenever practical.

Panzer

[woodsy]

Was walking against the wind one hot day on the AT and smelled something dead up ahead.
Was scanning around looking for whatever had died and then it appeared...

It was a thru hiker, alive and walking

[Hikes in Rain]

If the water is soapy enough that you couldn't drink it, then it's probably poisonous to plants and animals.


.

I humbly disagree. The main problem with soaps, and to a greater extent detergents, in the water column is algeal blooms from the nitrogen and phosphorous compounds in them. (Admittedly, there's a lot less phosphorous in detergents these days than in the past.

The key, then, is to dispose of the soapy water (and folks here are absolutely correct that you really don't need much at all) is to spread it widely well into the vegetated uplands, making sure that it can't run off into water bodies. A flip of the wrist will suffice. Soaps especially will break down very rapidly, and plants uptake the breakdown products as nutrient sources.

That said, I usually only use soap on my hands (I wear contact lenses), in a small basin of water. Often, I'll use what's left as a sponge bath. There's really very little left after that to toss.

[restless]

Maybe we can get the Appalchian Trail Conservancy to install showers at, say..oh..every other shelter! I mean lets be reasonable. We don't need two showers every day. But hey, we need to clean up at least once every day. Maybe they could install those little soap dispensers and fill them with Dr. Bronners. That way we could be clean smelling and clean and environmentally friendly. Perhaps we could talk hostel owners into selling single serve cologne and perfume pouches. That way when another hiker comes our way, they would never be able to smell our BAD smells, they would only smell the GOOD smells. But if that doesn't happen I guess the only thing we are left to do is close down the Appalachian Trail. I say that because it seems impossible to do any long distance hiking without breaking a sweat. And that means smells. BAD ones at that!!! EWWWWWWWWW!!!!! Wouldn't want that now would we? It might offend someone!??!! Moral of the story? Stink happens. If you don't like the way others smell, move on. Or better yet, find a new hobby where you won't have to smell me and I won't have to smell you.

[Tuckahoe]

I humbly disagree. The main problem with soaps, and to a greater extent detergents, in the water column is algeal blooms from the nitrogen and phosphorous compounds in them. (Admittedly, there's a lot less phosphorous in detergents these days than in the past.

The key, then, is to dispose of the soapy water (and folks here are absolutely correct that you really don't need much at all) is to spread it widely well into the vegetated uplands, making sure that it can't run off into water bodies. A flip of the wrist will suffice. Soaps especially will break down very rapidly, and plants uptake the breakdown products as nutrient sources.

That said, I usually only use soap on my hands (I wear contact lenses), in a small basin of water. Often, I'll use what's left as a sponge bath. There's really very little left after that to toss.

Hikes, thanks for the use of logic. There is nothing wrong with using soap. Keeping yourself clean is also keeping yourself healthy and soap is far superior than using just water.

[JAK]

Also, choose a soap that has no phosphates, or at least very little. A liquid soap made from potassium hydroxide will have less, but still some. That is, wood ash, and soap made from wood ash, will still have some phosphates. You have to figure that wood ash, or soap made from it, would be ok for the environment, as long as it is a small amount.

I am not sure that camp suds is actually the best for the environment,
if you do choose to use some soap. Does anyone know?

[JAK]

I know alcohol is safe for the environment. So just using water, and a little alcohol here and there now and then, is a good way to go. We do tend to over-emphasis the neccessity of using soap. The most essential thing is water, not soap.

[Hikes in Rain]

Can't answer to the camp suds; never checked out what's in it. I usually use plain Ivory soap for most of my soap needs, home or trail. That centers around the contacts again; Ivory is just soap, no oils or scents to stay on my hands and get into my eyes. After wiping the sweat off my greasy face all day, I have to use something to get the oils off! Alcohol isn't the best idea for that. Burns your eye like you wouldn't believe.