Split from THru-Hikers Q&A: Dogs in the Shelter?

[snaplok]

I love dogs. That being said, why is it that people force them onto others? It's not just on the trail, it's in stores, restaurants, coffee houses... It's rude to have a sense of entitlement that just because you have a pet that you have the right to do what you feel like and then if someone complains they are rude and being an a$$?!?

[Tin Man]

I love dogs. That being said, why is it that people force them onto others? It's not just on the trail, it's in stores, restaurants, coffee houses... It's rude to have a sense of entitlement that just because you have a pet that you have the right to do what you feel like and then if someone complains they are rude and being an a$$?!?

xactly... it's like smokers sharing their smoke with those who don't want it, same damn thing happens

[Tin Man]

xactly... it's like smokers sharing their smoke with those who don't want it, same damn thing happens

p.s. personally, i don't mind dogs or smoke (mostly), but i see dog owners and smokers sharing their dogs and smoke with those too polite to say anything. it's just plain wrong.

[snaplok]

xactly... it's like smokers sharing their smoke with those who don't want it, same damn thing happens

lol I was going to use smokers as an example but didn't want to offend those that think they have that right too.


It's funny but as an ex-smoker I never impossed my bad habit on anyone but that's just cause I didn't want it done to me. When I moved to Philly for two years I was in hell, almost everyone smokes there and it's menthol, and it's when you are having breakfast. Nothing like bacon, eggs, and the smell of Newport in the morning... Smells like misery.

[Jack Tarlin]

Tin Man is 100% correct.

Asking people "if it's cool" if Shiloh or Cherokee Nation or whatever stays in the shelter is totally uncool. And dog owners, get real: You know this. You are putting other people on the spot. You are forcing THEM to be the bad guy, i.e., you are making THEM publicly say what most people actually feel, which is this: "I don't want to be licked or drooled on; I don't want a muddy animal walking all over my stuff; I don't want to be begged for food: I don't want to be leg humped; I especially don't wanna have to deal with whatever assorted vermin your pet is carrying, and if it's summertime, he sure in hell is packing something and you damned well know it." In short, when dog owners do the cutesy "Gee, does anyone mind if Muffin sleeps in here with me?" I assure you they know EXACTLY what they're doing, which is bullying people into saying nothing.

This has been said before, folks.

Anytime you catch yourself saying "Gee, does anyone mind if...." this should be a psychological red flag to yourself......you're basically asking people to OK public behavior that deep down, you KNOW most folks will object to. I don't care if it's "Gee, does anyone mind if I play some classical music?" or "Does anyone mind if I make some phone calls?" or "Is it OK if I do my religious chants before bed?"

I don't care WHAT it is.

Anytime you find yourself going "Does anyone mind if...." well, stop right there. You know damned well someone probably DOES mind, and probably more than one person, too. But they don't want to make a big deal out of it, and you're counting on this. So don't do it.

Muffin belongs in your tent, period, and don't guilt trip people into saying otherwise; when you ask them to OK otherwise, you are deliberately and quite intentionally putting them on the spot cuz you know, deep down, they're not likely to say anything cuz they don't wanna look like the bad guy.

But by putting them on the spot, it is YOU who are the bad guy.

So, it's easy: Don't do it.

[Jack Tarlin]

I should also add that in recent years, most dog owners don't even ask if it's OK to bring Bruno into the shelter.

They just assume that nobody will say anything, which again, is psychological bullying. They pretty much dare other folks into making a confrontation, which is simply rude.

You wanna camp with your dog?

Swell. Have a great time. Go camp with him. End of story.

[rickb]

Jack makes some good points.

That said, just keep in mind that there are no prohibitions regarding dogs in shelters.

So, if you want to get pissed at a dog's owner, feel free. Get pissed at the perceived inconsideration. Or assault on your health or other danger or discomfort the animal presents to you.

Just don't get your panties in a wad over some misplaced belief that the dog owner is breaking any regulation.

Understand that a big part of the reason I am saying this is because I used to get very annoyed (to the point that it would impact my happiness) to see people camping in illegal places along the AT. In large measure simply because they were breaking the rules.

Should I say something? Did I have a right to be angry seeing people in cherry sites when I had been camped in a less desirable area?

I later learned that I had been 100% wrong about the rules and knowing that, was able to chill. Getting older helped too, but that is beside the point.

In any event, best to recognized others' rights, even if you think they are being inconsiderate scum bags.

[Tin Man]

I should also add that in recent years, most dog owners don't even ask if it's OK to bring Bruno into the shelter.

They just assume that nobody will say anything, which again, is psychological bullying. They pretty much dare other folks into making a confrontation, which is simply rude.

You wanna camp with your dog?

Swell. Have a great time. Go camp with him. End of story.

Yep, I have seen plenty of dogs come into shelters and the owners never asked. At one shelter just off the trail in NY, I couldn't gear near even if I wanted to, because cujo and bruno were guarding it at full growl. Heck, they didn't even want us to pass until the owners got around to grabbing them. Camp with your dog? Okay... if you leash the ones that can't stand by your side and stay well away from others.

[Lone Wolf]

just keep in mind that there are no prohibitions regarding dogs in shelters.

nor are there prohibitions regarding snoring, drinkin' alcohol, coming in late/leaving early, cussing, etc., etc., etc. folks who use shelters AND have to have their dog in it with them just aren't woodsy types.

[Blissful]

most non-dog owners are in an angst when the dog walks into the shelter, especially when it is raining

I am a dog owner. This happened at Speck POnd in the rain. No one asked, They just showed up and slept in with their dog who then proceeded to shake itself all over the place. I found it rude. Dogs are not humans. They do not deserve the shelter because it is raining. Dogs are perfectly fine outside underneath the shelter (which is where our dog slept on our '07 hike for one night and loved it).
I have met lots of owners who sleep with their dogs in tents. I hiked with one, Mercy, and it was a great experience. I learned a lot too, that a dog, properly trained and cared for without special favors, can be a neat and important pal (this dog was trained for medical emergency).

[hellomolly]

sorry, wrong again. you put folks in an impossible position. they don't want to say no, because the don't want to appear rude or have a confrontation. if they don't have a dog, 99 times out of 100 they don't want your dog there. so, unless the person says cute dog, pets him, and offers to let the dog in before you ask, you are the one being rude for even asking

It's not an impossible position if you have the balls to say, "I'm sorry, but I'm uncomfortable with your dog in the shelter." Not my problem if you don't. Your assertion that it is rude to even ask is ridiculous. If I ask and everyone enthusiastically says, sure, no problem, then there's no problem. If you don't have the guts to say there is, that is YOUR problem, not mine.

"he's just looking out for your safety, but maybe you know better and should just go for it"

He's looking out for my safety by being a pompous, arrogant jerk who behaves as though he's written the be-all, end-all book on "hiking etiquette" and how to be a "woodsy type?" Please.

I'd rather spend a night ina shelter with a dog than with a psycho homeless dude who talks to himself and has been living out of the shelter for more than a week. But that's just me.

Again - if you don't have the self-confidence or self-assuredness to speak up for yourself when you're put in a situation that makes you uncomfortable, that is your problem. I don't ask if it's okay because I know that it's not - I ask because it's the polite thing to do. I'd strongly disagree with whatever ignorant statement someone made asserting that most people are uncomfortable with dogs in shelters. I've met people in shelters who are way dirtier, smellier and nastier than most dogs.

It's like any other situation - if someone is smoking pot or doing drugs ina shelter, you can ask them to stop or you can leave. If there is a psycho homeless dude in a shelter, you can ask them to leave or you can leave. If there is a pleasant, calm, quiet dog in a shelter than curls up on a blanket and passes out and does not bother a single person, and the owner asks you if it's okay if the dog sleeps there in the corner... you can either say no, i'm not okay with it, or you can leave. There's no law saying a dog can't be in a shelter.

[Lone Wolf]

It's not an impossible position if you have the balls to say, "I'm sorry, but I'm uncomfortable with your dog in the shelter." Not my problem if you don't. Your assertion that it is rude to even ask is ridiculous. If I ask and everyone enthusiastically says, sure, no problem, then there's no problem. If you don't have the guts to say there is, that is YOUR problem, not mine.

"he's just looking out for your safety, but maybe you know better and should just go for it"

He's looking out for my safety by being a pompous, arrogant jerk who behaves as though he's written the be-all, end-all book on "hiking etiquette" and how to be a "woodsy type?" Please.

I'd rather spend a night ina shelter with a dog than with a psycho homeless dude who talks to himself and has been living out of the shelter for more than a week. But that's just me.

Again - if you don't have the self-confidence or self-assuredness to speak up for yourself when you're put in a situation that makes you uncomfortable, that is your problem. I don't ask if it's okay because I know that it's not - I ask because it's the polite thing to do. I'd strongly disagree with whatever ignorant statement someone made asserting that most people are uncomfortable with dogs in shelters. I've met people in shelters who are way dirtier, smellier and nastier than most dogs.

It's like any other situation - if someone is smoking pot or doing drugs ina shelter, you can ask them to stop or you can leave. If there is a psycho homeless dude in a shelter, you can ask them to leave or you can leave. If there is a pleasant, calm, quiet dog in a shelter than curls up on a blanket and passes out and does not bother a single person, and the owner asks you if it's okay if the dog sleeps there in the corner... you can either say no, i'm not okay with it, or you can leave. There's no law saying a dog can't be in a shelter.

you don't get it. never will

[hellomolly]

how much of the AT have you walked miss molly?

Not playing that game...Impossible to win, regardless of what experience I do or don't have. Given you've "whatever'd" me and written off every single post I've made here with some arrogant comment about me "not getting it," I really wonder why you even care to know.

[Lone Wolf]

If "getting it" means conforming to your ridiculous rules for how to be a "woodsy type," then I'm glad! Thanks.

honey, just learn to camp with your pup. it's the right thing to do. me thinks you won't be doing much AT walkin' in the future though.

[Tin Man]

If "getting it" means conforming to your ridiculous rules for how to be a "woodsy type," then I'm glad! Thanks.

thinking about how your behavior impacts others is ridiculous?? wow. you most certainly do not get it.

[Blissful]

I talked with two hikers today at our picnic about their dog (who they decided to send their dog home when the trail got tough, responsible, IMO) They said - we always tented with him.
When you lose respect for other hikers and humankind over an animal's rights, then there's a problem.
I see it with my writing (as an author). We can write about and show gory movies of people getting killed in the most gruesome ways. But boy oh boy, never show a dog getting hurt or killed. You aren't allowed to.
Somethings wrong here...
I love my dog. But when it comes to humans and their rights and the love of a human over a dog, people should win every time.

[Johnny Thunder]

HAHAHAHA!!!

I was going to let this one go but it is just too clear how ignorant some people can be of the situations they create.

Twice over the past 3 years I've approached shelters and found a "grou of people and a dog. In both cases it was clear that the people in the shelter liked the dog and might have been traveling with it and it's owner. I can only guess this was the case since someone (not the owner) was petting the dog. In both cases the dog was aggressive towards me as I approached and I didn't feel comfortable being near it.

There was no way for me to comfortably share the shelter with the animal and his companions even after saying something to have the animal removed. Any dog owner who doesn't acknowledge this is ignorant of their own footprint.

Your perfect little puff-ball might just be that. Or you might ignore the sort of common-sense training that keeps animals from killing babies, begging for food, or getting my stuff muddy.

But I don't know you and I don't know your animal.

[hellomolly]

honey, just learn to camp with your pup. it's the right thing to do. me thinks you won't be doing much AT walkin' in the future though.

It's the right thing to do... in your opinion. Thank you for that deep, insightful comment in which you somehow predicted my future behavior based on my opinion of dogs in shelters. And Tin Man, I'm sorry if "not getting it," in your opinion, is the same as simply having a different view, but I simply do not agree with you. I don't "not get it," I just disagree.

[Blissful]

I just disagree.

And that's ok to do.

SO let's all be FRIENDS



Bye y'all

[Lone Wolf]

HAHAHAHA!!!

I was going to let this one go but it is just too clear how ignorant some people can be of the situations they create.

Twice over the past 3 years I've approached shelters and found a "grou of people and a dog. In both cases it was clear that the people in the shelter liked the dog and might have been traveling with it and it's owner. I can only guess this was the case since someone (not the owner) was petting the dog. In both cases the dog was aggressive towards me as I approached and I didn't feel comfortable being near it.

There was no way for me to comfortably share the shelter with the animal and his companions even after saying something to have the animal removed. Any dog owner who doesn't acknowledge this is ignorant of their own footprint.

Your perfect little puff-ball might just be that. Or you might ignore the sort of common-sense training that keeps animals from killing babies, begging for food, or getting my stuff muddy.

But I don't know you and I don't know your animal.

i love you. and your common, no BS sense