Disease on the trail

[fw2008]

Hello Friends;

I have been thinking on and off for many years of a thru-hike of the AT, but have always given in to my "fears".
I'm not particularly afraid of people, or even bears, but I worry about disease.

It seems that there are several popular ones; Lyme is the one that always comes to mind.
I know someone who had Lyme disease, and he wasn't a hiker. He just happened to live where there were deer, and deer ticks carrying the disease.

I usually use a 30% DEET repellent, but question whether I want to be using that stuff for months at a time. DEET is on the "To be banned" list, but so far it's still available, mostly because no one has been able to come up with another product that works as well for ticks.

I thought of wearing mosquito netting, but think that would look pretty strange.

Any ideas?

Thanks

FW

[wtmntcaretaker]

wear bug spray if you want but checking yourself diligently at the end of a day works really well too. I think it takes about 12 hours for the disease to be contracted. I think most people do not get lyme, though it is good to be careful.

[garlic08]

You can use permethrin on your clothing and take precautions like wearing long trousers and tucking them into your socks--slightly less dorky than a full-body bug suit.

[wtmntcaretaker]

http://www.turnthecorner.org/tips-pr...loved-ones.htm
this is a pretty good site about lyme disease. knowledge is power.

[Wise Old Owl]

The bug net is huge above Pa, NH and Maine are unbelievable and make sure you protect your elbows. There are some here that never had a problem, I met a guy who works outside all day and drinks very little water, halfway though a trip in Canada he was giving his six bottles of deet away to others in need.

[Jeff]

These past two summers I have seen a big increase in hikers who contracted Lymes. I agree that making yourself knowledgeable and checking yourself every single night is a requirement for staying healthy. Also, getting checked by a doctor immediately after you suspect Lymes is crucial.

[Arden]

You can use permethrin on your clothing and take precautions like wearing long trousers and tucking them into your socks--slightly less dorky than a full-body bug suit.

Have you ever read the warnings on the can of permethrin? It's enough to make you take your chances with the bugs, or just use DEET on your skin.
I think permethrin is banned in some states, most likely CA, but I know it's still available in NJ. I was at Campmor in Paramus the other day, and they still selling it.

I have been in NH and VT during black fly season, and agree with Wise Old Owl 110% about the bugs up there. I have hiked parts of the AT up there. It is real bad!

I ran a race in Manchester NH once, and they actually had up warning signs about black flies along the route! That day I was having more problems with a bad foot than flies

I have been told that it's not a good idea to keep DEET on your body at night while you sleep. Not sure how to wash it off though, if you don't have shower available. Bathing in a stream would be a no-no.
Maybe alcohol based "waterless soap" would do it. I don't know.
I have never hiked for more than a few days at a time, so I haven't worried about DEET.

As for checking one's self carefully; how exactly do you go about doing that if you're hiking alone?
I would feel kind of stupid asking another hiker to check me for ticks, unless the hiker is female

A

[Graywolf]

Checking your self and good hygiene practices should work well..

[weary]

Deet remains the protection of choice for people that live, work or recreate in wild places. I don't know of any serious efforts to ban it's sale. There have been worrisome reports from time to time, but it is far safer than permethrin, when used in contact with the human skin..

DEET is water soluable, so just a wet cloth will remove most of it, once you crawl into a tent. I live on the edge of a salt marsh, which is far buggier than any place I know on the Appalachian Trail. I've used DEET for months at a time annually ever since the stuff came on the market a half century ago. No obvious problems as yet.

I use a liquid variety. A two ounce container will last me a full season. I avoid the spray because it's much more expensive, works less well, and I don't like to breathe the stuff. Just rub a drop or two of the liquid on the palm of your hands, and then on exposed body parts.

Weary

[fw2008]

Thanks for the advice / info guys;
I checked the website wtmntcaretaker suggested. They say to avoid areas where ticks are found. HA. That's not going to work on the trail. At least I don't do any bushwacking. Since the AT is well used, we don't have tall grass growing on any parts of it.

garlic08, you mention using permethrin. I actually bought a can of that several years back, but got rid of it at the toxic waste drop-off without ever using it.
Like Arden; I read the precautionary information on the label, and was scared off. They talk about only applying the stuff outdoors, and warnings about getting it on your skin, etc. I wouldn't want to be spraying the stuff in camp with other hikers around.

I've talked to hikers who always wear long clothing. I have trouble with that in summer. I get awfully hot and uncomfortable.
That's why I do most of my hiking during the colder weather.
Maybe a SOBO thru-hike would work best for me. Somehow, I believe that I could handle the snow and ice (and cold rain) better than the bugs.

FW

[sasquatch2014]

Deet does not need to be on the skin to work read up on it. It is designed to mess up the CO2 receptors that insects use to home in in their prey. Yep there are things out there that will kill you but there are more things at home than in the woods. Go hike it's safer.

[Jim Adams]

...or you could stay home and deal with lock jaw, polio, H1N1, MRSA, chicken pox, small pox, menningitis, swine flu, avian flu, urban giardia, other bacterial infections, other viral infections, plague, etc, etc, etc. Granted, some of these things are no longer common but it isn't because they have been eliminated...they are still out there but most people are immune to them through inocculations...key word here MOST. Stop worrying about the outdoors...most of the time you get illness from other people not the outdoors. I've said it many times, if you are worried that much about your health then stop riding in vehicles and walk EVERYWHERE. You stand more chance of being killed in a motor vehicle crash than you have of getting Lyme, West Nile, Haunta, etc.

geek

[DapperD]

Hello Friends;

I have been thinking on and off for many years of a thru-hike of the AT, but have always given in to my "fears".
I'm not particularly afraid of people, or even bears, but I worry about disease.

It seems that there are several popular ones; Lyme is the one that always comes to mind.
I know someone who had Lyme disease, and he wasn't a hiker. He just happened to live where there were deer, and deer ticks carrying the disease.

I usually use a 30% DEET repellent, but question whether I want to be using that stuff for months at a time. DEET is on the "To be banned" list, but so far it's still available, mostly because no one has been able to come up with another product that works as well for ticks.

I thought of wearing mosquito netting, but think that would look pretty strange.

Any ideas?

Thanks

FW

For myself I think one of the biggest dangers of an extended hike such as on the AT, and it being on the east coast which is wet and damp, would be skin problems. Having your feet wet all the time I would be more worried about fungus like athlete's feet, etc...from my boots and socks being wet so often. I guess one could worry about things like Lyme disease,West Nile Virus, Rabies, etc...but I think if you are going to be too mentally consumed by this then it will add an extra burden you will not want to have once you are out there. I guess we all have are different thoughts as far as "what if" but as other's have said, just living your life day to day is risky, you prepare yourself as best you can, take care of yourself out there, and enjoy yourself. There are/will be risks in everything you do. I think for yourself it would be wise to have good health coverage just in case one of these "what if's" unfortunately does happen to come your way.

[Jonnycat]

DEET is on the "To be banned" list.

Hmm, I have not heard that before. Where did you learn of this "list" that states DEET is "to be banned," and who is the regulative body seeking to place it on such a list?

[Trailweaver]

I accidentally spilled bug repellant with Deet in it on my car seat once. . . it ate a hole in the seat before I could wipe it off! After that - I'm not putting it on my skin.

[Rick500]

It's a chemical reaction that won't happen with your skin, just certain synthetics.

[garlic08]

My wife accidentally sprayed some DEET onto her drinking tube, and a little onto her face. It ate through the tube, and before noticing that she drank some water tainted with DEET. Between the face shot and the water, she was off trail for a day with shortness of breath and racing pulse. We called the California poison hotline and they confirmed some of the side effects of ingesting DEET are shortness of breath and tachycardia. She was OK after a rest, but that's why we don't use DEET anymore. Be careful, if you do.

[Snowleopard]

Well, at least we don't have malaria on the AT.

It's a tradeoff. There are dangers to chemical repellents and there are dangers to insect borne diseases. The most dangerous chemicals for me are the community insecticide spraying programs for mosquitos for West Nile and EEE. I have asthma and those insecticides could kill me.

Lyme is increasing in southern New England, as are West nile and Eastern Equine Encephalitis. I have a friend in the Boston suburbs that has had it more than once, likely from ticks in her yard.

The disease that seems most likely hiking in the northeast is Lyme. It's less likely in the south and northern New England, but seems to be increasing in the south. There are other tick born diseases that are serious, babeiosis (spelling?).

Tick borne diseases: the best defenses seem to be,
Permethrin on clothes, or use Buzzoff clothes (pricey). Use long pants and long sleeve shirts treated with permethrin. In areas where deer ticks are likely (walking through tall grass) put pants bottoms in socks or wear permethrin treated gaitors.
Checking carefully for ticks every night (requires another person) and removing them; it takes a certain amount of time with the tick attached.
Deet on exposed skin.
Light colored clothes, so you can see the ticks better.
The basic idea is to keep the ticks from getting on you and from crawling up your clothes or body. If you're wearing shorts, you pretty much have to use deet on your legs, and even then long pants will probably work better.
I don't think that a head net will help much with ticks unless you're crawling through the grass or your head is brushing branches.

Mosquito borne diseases: West Nile and Eastern Equine Encephalitis are serious but a lot less common than Lyme. Permethrin on clothes and DEET on skin. Head nets help. In the far north (northern Quebec/Ontario/Alaska) full bug suits might be necessary.

Black flies: There isn't much disease carried by black flies, so its mainly a comfort issue, perhaps a major comfort issue.

I have asthma and it's not clear how much of a respiratory irritant DEET is, so I avoid it as much as possible. So I use permethrin, head nets and carry DEET but use it only when absolutely necessary.

garlic, your wife's problems could also be from drinking water contaminated with the dissolved plastic. The idea of using a spray for potentially toxic chemicals seems insane to me, whether insect repellents, sunscreen or household cleaning chemicals.

[Jonnycat]

I hit myself in the head with a hammer. I started to get really dizzy, then I called a nurse.

She told me that hitting myself in the head with a hammer is a likely cause of my dizzyness.

I threw that hammer out, and will never be using a hammer again!

[Fiddleback]

Hmm, I have not heard that before. Where did you learn of this "list" that states DEET is "to be banned," and who is the regulative body seeking to place it on such a list?

Yes...pray tell! What list, where can we find it and what else is on the 'list'?

FB