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  1. #81
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Fully realizing that those who use trekking pole straps consider those of us who don't to be weirdo, contrarian outliers — and just plain wrong! — I can explain why I don't and how it came to be.

    Hiking here in the Northeast there many places where there are a lot of little ups and downs, and being someone who does not prefer to use poles on flat or gentle up and down trails, I found myself constantly switching back and forth between briefly using the poles to go up or down a hill, and then carrying them again, either one pole in each hand or both in one hand. For this kind of use, I found that this endless repetition of engaging and disengaging hands from the straps to be a constant annoyance. With conventional poles I noticed that I could go pretty much all day without ever using the straps.

    One fateful day I did a hike with some new friends, one of whom was using some Gossamer Gear LightTrek poles. He let me try them, and Ooohh-la-la, it was love at first swing, and about 10 seconds and 100 feet down the trail I knew I just had to have some very light poles. However, that same day my friend managed to break one of them during what was a 'garden variety' trail stumble, so I thought perhaps they might be a skosh too light. I also really-really-really don't like twist lock, so after considerable mulling I decided to make my own 2-section, flicklock version. Distilling a very long saga down to one sentence, I made my own with some China-sourced carbon fiber tubes, GG grips and Black Diamond flicklocks and Distance Z pole tips.

    On the trail, I did indeed notice that it took more hand strength to hold the GG grips than I liked. I looked at my old Leki grips on the Makalu Ti poles that seemed easier to grip, observing that there is a little 'shelf' where the index finger wraps around the grip. So I took a Dremel tool and sanded out the GG grip, making the shelf a little deeper than that on the Leki grips. This finger rest made a huge difference! It reduced hand strain enormously because now my thumb wrapped around the grip and also helped 'lock' the index finger into the recessed area. Additionally, the pole can be held with the middle finger on the shelf and the thumb over the top of the grip, resulting in a very, very low amount of hand strain.

    Later on, I decided to do the same finger rest treatment to the bottom of the grip, adding a small tube of EVA foam below the GG grip to extend the bottom of the grip. This makes it easy to slide the hand down the grip for steep uphill sections without having to release the flicklock and shorten the pole... very handy IMO.

    Recently on one set of these poles (of course I have a few sets from various prototype testing!) I added some Black Diamond Distance straps and have been testing those. They work fine, although when I start off using them in the morning I find that later I revert to habit and simply don't use them... I truly find them unnecessary with the grip mods I have incorporated.

    So even though I don't use straps, I have put considerable thought, effort and testing into the process and am not some uninformed doofus on this topic.

    Attachment 44171
    Attachment 44172 Attachment 44173
    No way I can avoid adding a follow-up to this ^^^

    For years I was a die-hard wrist strap user. I've had the same pair of BD Distance Z poles for ages and swore by the straps. On a trip earlier this year I had the good fortune to try cmoulder's DIY poles, above, and oh my... I was hooked the moment I tried them. The weight difference compared to the Distance Z's was immediately obvious and though I used his poles for only a short while, I was sold. It likely won't surprise that I made a set of my own with his help. Mine came in at 4.1 oz per pole. Half of what the BD's weighed.

    Once I had some time without the straps I realized a few things I hadn't in the past. Like mentioned above, I was often annoyed at having to take the straps off and on. Trying to get into a hip belt pocket with a pole tethered by a wrist strap was a real pain. Every time I stopped, had to handle my gps or take a drink, it was strap on, strap off. I didn't realize how annoying it was until I no longer had to do it. The second realization was much more subtle. The wrist straps on the Distance Z's are asym.. there is a left and right.. and each has a little L and R inside the end of the strap. Being the anal retentive I can be, I always made sure I used the proper pole/hand assignment. When I no longer had to do THAT I was reborn! Grab a pole and go.

    I did the same type of contouring of the grips, although the finger ledge on mine is a bit deeper. I find that I can hold the poles with very, very little pressure on the grips, yet when I needed to lean heavy on them I had no problem. I also loved that I could easily adjust my grip.. up and down. That was something I couldn't do with the BD poles as the straps very much dictated where your hand goes, with nearly no variation.

    I am still undecided whether the adjustable length we have on these poles is for me. The only time I adjust the length would be for use as a spreader over a hammock tarp and I don't do that often. I'll live with these for a bunch more miles before making a decision but converting them to fixed length might be something I do in the future and doing so would easily get each pole sub-4 oz.

    On a recent trek we did, the poles pictured above went on their maiden voyage. I chuckled frequently when I noticed he wasn't using the straps.
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  2. #82

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    Would either of you be interested /able to write up the process of DIYing the pole setup you're using?

  3. #83
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    I use the straps. Find them to be beneficial except when trying to get your hand back through the strap loop.




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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Would either of you be interested /able to write up the process of DIYing the pole setup you're using?
    I should do a separate thread on this.

    Basic materials are GG grips, BD z-pole baskets and flicklocks (13mm), and roll wrapped carbon fiber tubes from ebay, 2x 13x11mmx1M (ODxIDxL), 2x 11x9mmx1M and 1x 9x7mmx500mm.

    When you look at the cost of materials it becomes obvious that going this route is a lot more expensive. It might be better — and would definitely be easier — to get some GG LT poles (they're 2-section) and modify the grips, and I'm fairly sure they could be converted to flick lock. For the grip extension, EVA foam tubes can be found at fly fishing suppliers such as Mudhole.

    With the high-quality/crazy-cheap China-made trekking poles available these days, it is hardly worth it unless you're after that last Nth degree. As I mentioned above, I got some of the $30 Hitor poles for winter and the quality is superb.

    If still interested in 'rolling your own', PM me and I can provide more detail. Some of this can be found on BPL as well.

  5. #85
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    I had researched the GG LT poles long before deciding to make a set. Sure it would have been a lot easier and possibly stronger than what I made (I did snap a tip off on my second outing, but no question it was user error during the build process). My motivation for making them? Without question I am a hardcore DIY'r and chose to make them just because I could. Second reason was the uber lite weight. The LT4's are 4.1 oz with the twist lock, which I don't really care for. Mine are 4.1 oz with the flick lock. And as mentioned, if I decide to go back to a fixed length pole, I'll get sub-4 0z per pole for sure. Third reason is I like to know how things are made so in the event something fails I am better equipped to make a repair. Next.. The LT4's are $76 per pole. If not mistaken, my parts for the pair weren't much more than that. And last... pure pride. Nothing is better than saying... yep, I made that.
    _______________________________________
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  6. #86
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    Can't imagine poles without straps, but it's your gear, your hike, use 'em upside down if you like.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    I should do a separate thread on this.
    Basic materials are GG grips, BD z-pole baskets and flicklocks (13mm), and roll wrapped carbon fiber tubes from ebay, 2x 13x11mmx1M (ODxIDxL), 2x 11x9mmx1M and 1x 9x7mmx500mm.
    When you look at the cost of materials it becomes obvious that going this route is a lot more expensive. It might be better — and would definitely be easier — to get some GG LT poles (they're 2-section) and modify the grips, and I'm fairly sure they could be converted to flick lock. For the grip extension, EVA foam tubes can be found at fly fishing suppliers such as Mudhole.
    With the high-quality/crazy-cheap China-made trekking poles available these days, it is hardly worth it unless you're after that last Nth degree. As I mentioned above, I got some of the $30 Hitor poles for winter and the quality is superb.
    If still interested in 'rolling your own', PM me and I can provide more detail. Some of this can be found on BPL as well.
    Thanks for all the detail. I'll probably follow your lead on the Hitor's for now and save the notes for later. It's crazy how expensive the raw CF tubes are compared to buying a premade pole set. This sounds like a fun project to tackle down the road though. Thanks again!

  8. #88
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    I should do a separate thread on this.

    Basic materials are GG grips, BD z-pole baskets and flicklocks (13mm), and roll wrapped carbon fiber tubes from ebay, 2x 13x11mmx1M (ODxIDxL), 2x 11x9mmx1M and 1x 9x7mmx500mm.

    When you look at the cost of materials it becomes obvious that going this route is a lot more expensive. It might be better — and would definitely be easier — to get some GG LT poles (they're 2-section) and modify the grips, and I'm fairly sure they could be converted to flick lock. For the grip extension, EVA foam tubes can be found at fly fishing suppliers such as Mudhole.

    With the high-quality/crazy-cheap China-made trekking poles available these days, it is hardly worth it unless you're after that last Nth degree. As I mentioned above, I got some of the $30 Hitor poles for winter and the quality is superb.

    If still interested in 'rolling your own', PM me and I can provide more detail. Some of this can be found on BPL as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikekiM View Post
    I had researched the GG LT poles long before deciding to make a set. Sure it would have been a lot easier and possibly stronger than what I made (I did snap a tip off on my second outing, but no question it was user error during the build process). My motivation for making them? Without question I am a hardcore DIY'r and chose to make them just because I could. Second reason was the uber lite weight. The LT4's are 4.1 oz with the twist lock, which I don't really care for. Mine are 4.1 oz with the flick lock. And as mentioned, if I decide to go back to a fixed length pole, I'll get sub-4 0z per pole for sure. Third reason is I like to know how things are made so in the event something fails I am better equipped to make a repair. Next.. The LT4's are $76 per pole. If not mistaken, my parts for the pair weren't much more than that. And last... pure pride. Nothing is better than saying... yep, I made that.
    Hmmm... Tim mentioned you two were particular about your grips. So much so that I explored and got pricing set for 'gripless' poles as a potential future option.
    Seems you both prefer the Gossamer Gear grip... or is it simply that it is a convenient item to purchase separately for DIY?

    The flicklock thing on a SUL pole is interesting too... I thought they were 'weight prohibitive' but can see that being a stupid light problem if the twist lock is too prone to failure. I'd be curious to hear more on that... though also curious if it's a localized problem. Things tend to take a beating in your neck of the woods.

  9. #89
    Registered User MikekiM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Hmmm... Tim mentioned you two were particular about your grips. So much so that I explored and got pricing set for 'gripless' poles as a potential future option.
    Seems you both prefer the Gossamer Gear grip... or is it simply that it is a convenient item to purchase separately for DIY?

    The flicklock thing on a SUL pole is interesting too... I thought they were 'weight prohibitive' but can see that being a stupid light problem if the twist lock is too prone to failure. I'd be curious to hear more on that... though also curious if it's a localized problem. Things tend to take a beating in your neck of the woods.
    Bill,

    I'm not sure I am so particular about which ones I used, but the set we were testing that weekend weren't nearly as comfortable as.. well.. any of the others I have used. Initially I was excited because they looked very much like the grips on my BD Distance Z's, but once we got to using them it became more apparent that the finger ledges were in the wrong spot...

    I really like the BD Distance Z grips and if they were available for purchase I would have made the CF poles using those (and maybe regretted it). But I can't find them anywhere. What makes the GG grips such a win is the contouring. Without the customizing, they aren't nearly as comfortable nor would they work so well without wrist straps. I've the tried the BD grips without straps and they don't have the magnetic feel I get with the customized GG grips.

    As far as the flicklocks... I don't have the weights handy, but I recall that the heaviest component in the CF pole materials list was indeed the flicklock. I had precious little time to play with the twist lock on the test poles so can't comment more than that I like the low profile design. That said, I'd bet that if all the pieces of the twist lock were weighed (the screw, washers, rubber expansion bit and any mounting hardware), it might be the same or heavier than the simple resin flicklock and one screw. It's crazy simple to service/replace and I can't imagine a way they can be damaged. I'd be that if you stepped on the flicklock the CF shaft might break but the resin lock would survive.

    The CF poles aren't for everyone. If I didn't have the same set of Distance Z's for as long as I do, I might not have considered an SUL option. On the past three outings I put a serious hurt on my poles.. tossed them, sat on them (well, I fell on them) caught them between rocks.. they worked great. Had I been wearing wrist straps it's likely I would have damaged them.
    _______________________________________
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Hmmm... Tim mentioned you two were particular about your grips. So much so that I explored and got pricing set for 'gripless' poles as a potential future option.
    Seems you both prefer the Gossamer Gear grip... or is it simply that it is a convenient item to purchase separately for DIY?

    The flicklock thing on a SUL pole is interesting too... I thought they were 'weight prohibitive' but can see that being a stupid light problem if the twist lock is too prone to failure. I'd be curious to hear more on that... though also curious if it's a localized problem. Things tend to take a beating in your neck of the woods.
    Yep, I am particular about the grips, but it is funny how all the current features are the result of evolution and testing. And the main reason I ended up with the GG grip is that other replacement grips are nearly impossible to come by. I found something on alibaba that looked like it might work but minimum order was 1000 sets or some such.

    I used the stock GG grips for quite a while before trying the finger ledge cut out, and the contrast between the required grip strength was stark. Later on, I added the EVA tube at the bottom of the grip so I could quickly slide hands down the pole temporarily when needed, although this has been a feature of many poles for a very long time. The final mod to the GG grips was to make the second finger ledge lower down, and to sand off the bottom flare to make them more comfortable when used in the 'choke down' mode.

    If you could somehow CNC or mold these grips in one piece, I think you'd have the best darn grips on the planet.

    And I agree with MikekiM that the weight difference between twist and flick is probably very, very minimal.

    I was very impressed with the superb quality of your prototype hike/spreader poles. However they were a bit noodly for hiking, appearing to use something like 12/10mm or 11/9mm upper/lower sections... with wall thickness unknown. I've had good luck with the 13/11mm (1mm wall thickness) for some time, and I've had a couple of incidents where they were shock loaded enough that I thought they were goners. Maybe I just got lucky... you can break any pole if you land on it just the wrong way. But in any event I wouldn't recommend them for klutzy people.

  11. #91
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    I don't claim any expertise on the matter... not being familiar with Carbon Fiber generally or a trekking pole user personally. That's why I worked with Josh who does know Carbon Fiber.
    These are his poles at heart and from what I understand the walls are thicker than the Gossamer Gear poles. http://www.rutalocura.com/trekking_poles.html

    I was a bit skeptical of the small diameter over all as we use .610" and .710" pole (15.5 and 18mm roughly) to build the bridge spreader bar sets. However he's a bit limited as well in what he can get made up as he's already committed to some of those 1000+ piece orders so sizing up wasn't really an option. After about 3 or 4 rounds though... as bridge spreaders they've proven to be pretty bomber spreader bars.

    His tubes are all custom made and come in inches so it's not a totally clean conversion. I believe the upper shaft is a .450" or 11.5 mm roughly.
    I know in talking with Josh he felt the GG grip was roughly .50 so some type of fill may be needed to make the grip work but he didn't have enough requests come through to have really messed with it. This is actually his second round of grips and was informed by customer feedback. So at worst most of his customers find the grips adequate if not great.
    I can get a 'gripless' set in as I believe I mentioned to one or both of you.
    If you guys both have more of your original tubes... It might be possible to replicate something similar to what I'm doing if you can find a pole tip that fits the larger diameter tube. If you're using a Black diamond tip... I can get the adapter to snap onto those for that end and you could fabricate the grip side adapter.
    Here's what mine look like again- https://1drv.ms/f/s!Apygyt54yYPwg7g3TpmRntjgzkvFlA
    My initial concern about adding a flick lock is that it would be inline with the compression when used in spreader bar mode as that's where this started for me. So if you're crushing out the griplock everynight in your bridge that maybe a nonstarter there.
    After that... I guess I'd probably want to hear about more failures of the twistlock before I gave them a shot. In my limited use it was user error that was the issue, though they are a bit finicky I attributed that to my lack of experience and the SUL nature of them. Once setup right I didn't have any issues. Again... I'm leaning on Ruta Locura's feedback and I'd think he would have bit the bullet on the change if it was a common issue.

    Thus far nobody has complained about them collapsing in use; but expanding their use as a trekking pole is the next test. No issues with the grips, but I believe most are using them with straps.
    I also believe the terrain in your area is a bit harder on things... the AT in general is a bit harder on things really... but NY/PA type terrain is quite a bit different than the south or midwest where testing is going on for me. Though the big bonus in working with Josh and adapting his trekking pole to my design was that it was an established trekking pole first.

    If anything it should result in a stronger unit overall as when used as a spreader bar it's being loaded properly. Grizz did a few Gossamer Gear conversions but I recall there being some concerns about stressing the poles (even if they didn't snap) and having that stress show up later during trekking pole use. As we all agree... trekking poles are one of those things that break period... SUL or not. On the hammock side, most doing conversions are pretty light folks and good at babying their lovingly crafted creations. Handing things off to the general public is a different level of testing and I don't think we're talking more than a few dozen folks who have really done it.

    All that said.. I see the appeal of what you're both getting at in the grip. Besides getting good ergonomics for pushing off and better natural grip... I think the deeper notch helps with lifting/recovery as well?
    It looks like you have that nice natural pivot point/snap forward action that the strap user enjoys. My wife has pretty bad carpal tunnel and the straps help a ton with that... but I do agree that I am noticing a growing number of folks moving away from the straps... or at least considering it. You know the drill... poles come with straps and the first thing they all teach you is how to use the straps properly so I think it's just something folks 'do' without thinking about it much. Once you've learned one way it's hard to unlearn it.

    Foams/rubbers/synthetics come in so many flavors as well and it could also be that GG 'picked a winner' in that department too. Course there's always the cork fans who raise their hand in protest too at some point.

    Overall... I simply don't have the years of experience using trekking poles to inform my design and am fairly well documented here as generally being against trekking poles. Ruta Locura provided a nice shortcut but I still like to look at things critically. I've probably logged a whopping 100 miles of trekking pole use but around here that's often just walking the flats putzing along. They help me a ton when hiking the dunes.. but not exactly a punishing test of durability for the poles. I've probably put 200+ nights of bridge use on them now personally... so I feel I've accomplished that goal at least with these.
    I like the idea of integrating and harmonizing systems... but only if each component still does it's job as a standalone piece of gear.

  12. #92
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    Hmm... those Hiltor poles look suspiciously like the Costco poles? (Cascade Mountain Tech).
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007E0ZBZI...d-b52a24014cb0


    If so... https://1drv.ms/f/s!Apygyt54yYPwg-xp2ZNsoztdEInvEg

    I was able to to a bridge pole conversion on those a few years back, the grip looks like the same possibility exists with those.

    The Fizan Compacts have the wrong type of tip, but the Cascade tech poles worked.
    I only did two of them but seemed to work out okay.

    Other than the significant cost savings though... for a bridge pole conversion you're still sort of in the same boat.
    You're adding two ounces or so to a 13-16 ounce pair of poles to save 3-5 ounces of spreader bar.
    So the conversion seems more 'doing it to do it' than for any functional reason.

    Least that's how I look at it if you're spending the bucks... either don't and just carry the heavier trekking pole or really go for it.

    But while we are on the topic... Guess Cascade Mountain Tech could be a cheap source for grips if you could peel them off the pole sections or contact them directly...
    https://cascademountaintech.com/coll...e-parts?page=1

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    Hey Bill,

    First off, what Josh/RL did with making those convertible poles for you is amazing — that's a hard trick to pull off and what he did was clean and clever. Whatever material he uses for the grips is perfect IMO.

    Damn, I wish the USA would finally go all metric, as the gummint has been threatening to do for the last few decades lol. I'm halfway decent at making rough conversions in my noggin between metric and avoirdupois/SAE but it sure gets tedious and inconvenient at times.

    The CMT and Hitor poles have significant differences — tube diameter, locking mechanism (CMT ain't so good), straps (Hitors ain't that good, actually) — and some similarities such as grips and tips, but the Hitors are roughly 1.5oz (each) lighter. They're probably both pumped out of the same factory in China. Many CF poles (such as the REI Powerlock/Komperdell) are as heavy as good aluminum poles, so what's the point except for the "carbon cachet"?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Hey Bill,

    First off, what Josh/RL did with making those convertible poles for you is amazing — that's a hard trick to pull off and what he did was clean and clever. Whatever material he uses for the grips is perfect IMO.

    Damn, I wish the USA would finally go all metric, as the gummint has been threatening to do for the last few decades lol. I'm halfway decent at making rough conversions in my noggin between metric and avoirdupois/SAE but it sure gets tedious and inconvenient at times.

    The CMT and Hitor poles have significant differences — tube diameter, locking mechanism (CMT ain't so good), straps (Hitors ain't that good, actually) — and some similarities such as grips and tips, but the Hitors are roughly 1.5oz (each) lighter. They're probably both pumped out of the same factory in China. Many CF poles (such as the REI Powerlock/Komperdell) are as heavy as good aluminum poles, so what's the point except for the "carbon cachet"?
    Thanks! (on behalf of Josh and myself).
    The pole itself is his basic pole, and he'd found that perfect section of tube to snap onto the tip end which solves that problem nicely. I never liked the 'bobbin' trick much and it still loads the tips on their weak point and results in failures in the field often enough. Plus you've got a bobbin that is easy to lose or could easily cut your hammock. His tip solution resolves that problem and keeps the load inline. I designed the upper system based upon what I came up with on the CMT pole conversions. Even when you design a webbing pocket or modify the bridge to catch a handle... you're still cross loading the pole and/or relying on a flexible system to load the pole correctly. The handle itself can often be bulky enough in my recessed bridge designs that it interferes with load transfer... so bottom line is you need to get the handle away from the edge.

    Josh has CNC milling in house so making 'spikes' (pole tips) as he calls them for any tube size is possible. Above all though, he does very nice work. Can't recommend him enough for anyone looking for good CF.

    I did ask him about perhaps getting a block of the handle material he used (a blank). Maybe something in 2"x 2" that could be custom shaped, but since he orders out the handles he doesn't have it handy. Suppose it wouldn't be impossible to track that foam down though. (or glue up a block). I was under the impression you and Mike weren't too fond of the material itself either...

    And yes... I agree overall on your other points. If you're going to go for it and use high tech materials you should get the results.
    Otherwise it is just lipservice/marketing, and money spent for no reason.

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    I happen to really like the material on the test set we had. It's the same as the BD grips. What didn't work well for me was the profile of the grip. If I remember correctly we were all in agreement that the finger ledges were misplaced. I think I have a few pictures of them.. will have to look. A blank that could be custom contoured would be a fun option.
    _______________________________________
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikekiM View Post
    I happen to really like the material on the test set we had. It's the same as the BD grips. What didn't work well for me was the profile of the grip. If I remember correctly we were all in agreement that the finger ledges were misplaced. I think I have a few pictures of them.. will have to look. A blank that could be custom contoured would be a fun option.
    I know for sure I can get them without a grip set on them.

    You guys might be several moves ahead of me from there. I'm not sure what epoxy to use to bond the CF and the foams.
    Josh gets the handles made up so he doesn't have raw foam around. Not sure of a great source for that though I believe Minicel or Volara are both good choices?

    https://www.foambymail.com/MT200/minicel-t200.html

    https://www.foambymail.com/VA2/volara-foam-type-2a.html

    Volara only comes in 1/2"

    Minicel can be purchased up to 4" thick, though I'd guess 3" would be plenty.

    This may be the one... https://www.foambymail.com/VA2/volara-foam-type-2a.html

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    I know for sure I can get them without a grip set on them.

    You guys might be several moves ahead of me from there. I'm not sure what epoxy to use to bond the CF and the foams.
    Josh gets the handles made up so he doesn't have raw foam around. Not sure of a great source for that though I believe Minicel or Volara are both good choices?

    https://www.foambymail.com/MT200/minicel-t200.html

    https://www.foambymail.com/VA2/volara-foam-type-2a.html

    Volara only comes in 1/2"

    Minicel can be purchased up to 4" thick, though I'd guess 3" would be plenty.

    This may be the one... https://www.foambymail.com/VA2/volara-foam-type-2a.html
    For the GG grips, I used two part five minute epoxy.. all the other glued components (really only the baskets) were Qwik Set JB Weld. I followed cmoulder's suggestion for securing the grips. Seems the tolerances on the hole in the GG grips are pretty loose. One grip needed a bit of coaxing to get on while the other went on with zero friction. Before gluing the grips on, I did a loose wrap of Gutterman thread with a layer of epoxy.. just enough to build up the shaft a bit. Let that cure fully. Then epoxy'd the grips in place over the thread wrap. Worked a charm..
    _______________________________________
    The difficulty of finding any given trail marker is directly proportional to the importance of the consequences of failing to find it.

  18. #98

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    I use the straps when climbing, but when in dense rocks, wet rocks, slick muddy trial: I take my wrists out of the straps. The poles do not make your shoes have more traction, so if your gunna slip your gunna with or without poles. And I have come very close to breaking my carbon poles because I slipped on a rock and either fell on or bent the pole due to my wrist being in the strap.
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

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