Any problems with a NeoAir Sleeping Pad?

[prain4u]

I am not looking for a gear review of this product--we already have a thread or two for that.

I just want to know if anyone has encountered any durability problems with a NeoAir sleeping pad? If so, what was the issue? Was it a puncture? Bad seams? A faulty valve? A slow leak from unknown places?

If your NeoAir was from one of the very early shipments (prior to June 2009?)--please let me know that too. Apparently, a few of those early shipments had problems that have since come to light--and have been (supposedly) addressed.

[10-K]

I just want to know if anyone has encountered any durability problems with a NeoAir sleeping pad? If so, what was the issue? Was it a puncture? Bad seams? A faulty valve? A slow leak from unknown places?

.

I've carried one about 500 miles with no problems.

I bought my wife one and it wouldn't stay inflated out of the box. Sent it back and the replacement has been working fine. Sorry, I didn't try to locate the problem.

[300winmag]

After using the NEO-AIR at over 9,000 ft.in the summer here in the Spring Mountain range ouside of Las Vegas I took the NEO-AIR back to REI for a refund.

Gripes>
1. Inflation is ENTIRELY by mouth and I expected that as the only drawback. At altitude that's not fun. Typically we went from the 70s F. to 37 F. in one night.

2. Deflation due to big temperature drop. Waaay too much deflation.

3. Bounciness and height from tent floor was too much for me. Just a personal thing.

Eric

[ChinMusic]

2. Deflation due to big temperature drop. Waaay too much deflation.

Never thought that Charles's Law would be a reason for a return.....

[Dogwood]

Prain4u, I thought many gear reviews did discusss DURABILITY issues so I would think one asking your question would want to look at NeoAir gear review threads, especially the latest ones since that allows sufficient time to accurately relate longer term durability issues of a relatively recently introduced product.

In regards to another post, I used a NeoAir Shortie on a recent hike of the Sierra High Rouite, sometimes open bivying, sometimes on bare exposed granite slabs without a bivy or groundcloth, at 13000+ ft in temp extremes from low 70's during day to below 30* at night. Never experienced deflation issues of any significant degree. Really, never noticed anything regarding deflation anyway! Might be because I hiked until almost sunset before setting up camp (inflating my NeoAir)so my sleeping pad wasn't exposed to the vast extremes of temp change when fully inflated. Actually, I like it that this pad does not need to be fully inflated to have a comfortable night's sleep. You can somewhat adjust the amount of air in it to find the sleeping condition that's right for you. It's the most comfortable inflatable sleeping pad I have ever experienced! It does require a considerable number of breathes to fully inflate. I see how that could be a concern at higher altitudes. But it's really not a big thing TO ME. It is a trade-off I'm willing to make for such a comfortable, light wt, decent insulating, and compressible inflatable sleeping pad like the NeoAir. No doubt the price is steep though! I never associated the word "bouncy" with this pad. The pad is thick when fully inflated though(one of the reasons it's so comfortable, but also requires more inflation(breathes)).

IMO, all the issues mentioned by 300winmag don't seem to be a maufacturing issue. If this person wanted to return this pad I don't think it was because anything CD did, could have avoided, or because CD had failed to mention something they should have.

I only have about 400 trail miles total and about 4 wks sleeping on the pad. I have heard of several on WB who have used this pad more extensively than this without any problems, some being AT thru-hikers.

As you pointed out Prain4u, I think many of the problems initially mentioned by some in the beginning have beem ironed out by Cascade Designs in later production runs. I think I received a more recent version since I didn't get it until early Sep 09. I would like to pt out, as Cascade Designs does in their marketing of this product, on their website, on the NeoAir packaging, and at many of the websites that sell this product, that IT IS AN UL PIECE OF GEAR REQUIRING TLC AND APPROPRATE USE FOR WHICH IT WAS DESIGNED. If somone doesn't understand what that means or isn't prepared to treat this pad that way, don't buy it. As an example, I wouldn't plop down heavily on any inflatable pad, but most of all not the NeoAir. Also, I wouldn't store it on the outside of my pack unless it was somehow protected, like in a protective storage bag.

[Tagless]

I purchased mine in Damascus and used it through the remainder of my thru hike. As Dogwood mentioned - this is ultralight gear and it should be treated accordingly. I did so and never had a problem. I love the NeoAir and highly recommend it!

[wcgornto]

I used three of them on my thru hike last year. All of them failed to perform adequately. The first one delaminated internally before I got out of Maine (SOBO). It was from an earlier production run. The second one took me from Hanover, NH to Pearisburg, VA. It worked well for a few weeks, then began to leak ... no holes, no punctures, no abrasions. It started out requiring re-inflation of one or two puffs of air once or twice a night. The leak became gradually worse, needing three or four puffs of air three or four times a night. The last couple of nights before I reached Pearisburg, it was almost leaking out completely. The third one had the same problem as the second one. It was actually worse than the second one because the leak began practically out of the box.

I love the Neoair. I wish it wasn't faulty. Hopefully, it will become a reliable product over time.

[prain4u]

I already own the NeoAir and have had no problems so far. So far, I have used it for just 10 nights and 104 miles on Isle Royale National Park.

However, I get a bit worried when I read reviews on WB (and other sites) where people SPECULATE that the NeoAir is not up to the challenge of a long distance hike. (They have no proof--just speculation). Then, one person posted somewhere that they needed 3 NeoAirs to complete their AT thru hike. That comment REALLY grabbed my attention. However, based upon the posts in this thread (and the posts in other threads and other sites) needing more than one NeoAir to complete a thru hike seems to be the exception and not the rule. (Especially if it was not from one of the damaged early shipments).

While hiking, I keep my NeoAir in its stuff sack (with my Tyvek groundcloth USUALLY wrapped around the outside of the stuff sack). I carry it in the middle of my pack. I am careful where I set it up. Even in a shelter, I put a piece of Tyvek under it. I don't just "plop down" on it. I lay down on it gently. It is possibly the most comfortable lightweight sleeping pad that I have ever tried--AND it cost me $150. Thus, it is one of the more expensive pieces of hiking equipment that I own. Therefore, I try to take good care of it.

[prain4u]

NOTE: While I was typing my own previous comment, wcgornto posted the same (or a similar) comment to the one I had seen elsewhere regarding needing three NeoAirs for their hike.

[Lucy Lulu]

I started with one on the CDT last year. It lasted for about a week before one of the seams separated, and I had a series of tiny holes. I was in the desert, but I was very careful and used an extra thick ground sheet. I was in the desert though.

I met another hiker later on the trail that had his separate, resulting in a very large bubble, which he simple curled up around.

[Wise Old Owl]

I used three of them on my thru hike last year. All of them failed to perform adequately. The first one delaminated internally before I got out of Maine (SOBO). It was from an earlier production run. The second one took me from Hanover, NH to Pearisburg, VA. It worked well for a few weeks, then began to leak ... no holes, no punctures, no abrasions. It started out requiring re-inflation of one or two puffs of air once or twice a night. The leak became gradually worse, needing three or four puffs of air three or four times a night. The last couple of nights before I reached Pearisburg, it was almost leaking out completely. The third one had the same problem as the second one. It was actually worse than the second one because the leak began practically out of the box.

I love the Neoair. I wish it wasn't faulty. Hopefully, it will become a reliable product over time.

I am guessing you are a big heavy guy as my brother had the same results over 230 lbs and 6 foot 2 or did you not have a ground sheet?

[wcgornto]

I am six feet. I started the trail just over 200 pounds and finished at around 170 pounds. I was less than 180 when I got the third one. I did use a groundsheet (my tent footprint) under the pad most of the time. I had no punctures, holes or abrasions.

With that said, I am not rhe world's most gentle sleeper. I roll over from front to back, and from side to side. In fact, that is what I like very much about the Neoair. It is great for side sleepers like me. Perhaps the people who haven't had leaking problems are gentle sleepers who sleep on their back, fall asleep immediately and don't move until morning. I have not had any leaking issues with other Thermarest pads (Prolite).

I kept going back to the Neoair because it is just soooo comfortable and in hopes that it's just a new product that will have the bugs worked out with successive production runs. I will buy this product again in the future if they can figure out how to make one for me that doesn't leak.

[Kerosene]

I used my NeoAir shortie for 5 nights this past October during an AT section hike with no problems (purchased in September 2009 from REI.com). It takes 9-11 big breaths to fully inflate, although I would then gradually deflate to reach a comfy level of firmness. I'm never going back to my TorsoLite, although sleeping in a hammock is still more comfortable than sleeping on the ground.

[ARambler]

I bought at the end of the season and can only say the Neoair did not leak out of the box.
I can also comment on the "Charles Law" effect of cooling. Although not very well documented, it seems that there have been many reports of deflation without leaks. Assuming the report of no leaks, in one case, is true, the cooling effect is the most likely explanation.

The cooling effect is NOT caused directly by the larger volume of the Neoair. I see the following factors:
1) The Neoair is completely inflated with warmer air, 98 F, from the lungs vs the ambient air sucked into the thermorest by the foam. Inflate before dinner and top off at night.
2) There is a tendancy to underinflate the Neoair based on a percentage distance between the body and the ground. If the body (hips, butt) is 1/2 inch from the ground for both pads, the 2 inch Neoair has a much lower inflation compared to a 1 inch Thermorest. The fact that the Neoair requires so many more breaths, probably also leads to less relative inflation.
3) If you buy a larger Neoair than the Thermorest, the body will be compressing a smaller percentage of the area, so temperature changes will have a greater effect. So those with a smaller area per weight, e.g. side sleepers, may want to consider the shorter pad. It would be interesting to hear whether those that had non-leak (and non-delamination) problems were using a full sized pad.
Rambler

[Dogwood]

I understand people's concerns of durability and use. Especially, when one considers the cost of this pad. However, if one is willing to understand the pros and possible cons of this sleeping pad, like one should with any piece of gear, and be prepared to treat it like the UL piece of gear that it is, IMO, the overall features of this pad outweigh any negatives, FOR ME. I've poured through many NeoAir gear review threads here on WB and at other websites and have spoken w/ probably close to a dozen NeoAir owners on the trail. To the best of my knowledge and from what I can tell, almost all the folks that have had delamination, bubbling, leakage, not holding air, what I would label as manufacturing defects/issues, had early production runs(early to mid 2009) of this product!

I also bought mine from Prolite, an outfitter that deals w/ lighter wt gear and moves product speedily through inventory. They get new stocks of inventory regularly SO I'm pretty sure I got a newer "improved" version/run of this pad. Like I stated in my above post, I bought mine in Sept 2009. My advice, if someone is srongly considering purchasing a NeoAir and they are concerned w/ getting a pad w/ any of these problems is buy it at an outfitter that moves product quickly so they have new inventory stock and make sure they have a decent return policy. I think by now though most outfitters have rotated out of early run NeoAirs. IMO, I think Cascade Designs has ironed out initial manufacturing problems.

[Big Dawg]

I understand people's concerns of durability and use. Especially, when one considers the cost of this pad. However, if one is willing to understand the pros and possible cons of this sleeping pad, like one should with any piece of gear, and be prepared to treat it like the UL piece of gear that it is, IMO, the overall features of this pad outweigh any negatives, FOR ME. I've poured through many NeoAir gear review threads here on WB and at other websites and have spoken w/ probably close to a dozen NeoAir owners on the trail. To the best of my knowledge and from what I can tell, almost all the folks that have had delamination, bubbling, leakage, not holding air, what I would label as manufacturing defects/issues, had early production runs(early to mid 2009) of this product!

I also bought mine from Prolite, an outfitter that deals w/ lighter wt gear and moves product speedily through inventory. They get new stocks of inventory regularly SO I'm pretty sure I got a newer "improved" version/run of this pad. Like I stated in my above post, I bought mine in Sept 2009. My advice, if someone is srongly considering purchasing a NeoAir and they are concerned w/ getting a pad w/ any of these problems is buy it at an outfitter that moves product quickly so they have new inventory stock and make sure they have a decent return policy. I think by now though most outfitters have rotated out of early run NeoAirs. IMO, I think Cascade Designs has ironed out initial manufacturing problems.

My thoughts exactly...

I'll be purchasing a NeoAir using REI's spring 20% off sale. And if I have problems w/ this pad,,, at ANY time in the future,,, I'll simply return it to REI for a replacement,,, as many times as it takes to get it right. I agree most problems have been manufacturing issues, which should be ironed out by now.

[Blue Sky II]

Have a first run short and a first run regular. Both sizes slowy lose air independent of air temperature fluctuations. Both sizes will lose air if you just inflate the pad unused. Laying on the pad seems to accelerate the air loss. The pads need a slight reinflation every one or two days.
What's the problem? Is it the valve, the material, or the construction process? I don't know! It's a minor problem, not a major problem.

[Big Dawg]

Have a first run short and a first run regular. Both sizes slowy lose air independent of air temperature fluctuations. Both sizes will lose air if you just inflate the pad unused. Laying on the pad seems to accelerate the air loss. The pads need a slight reinflation every one or two days.
What's the problem? Is it the valve, the material, or the construction process? I don't know! It's a minor problem, not a major problem.

so call CD, & let em know. I bet they'd trade new ones (non-leaky) w/ ya,,, pronto.