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  1. #61
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    I always insist that Aspirin be in every pack. ASA treats far more than pain. It is the first thing to do for someone with chest pain. It is cheap. It is very available. It has adverse effects that are well known. At some point in life, you will likely take aspirin on a daily basis for prevention of coronary artery syndrome.

    The other NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, Naproxyn, tramadol and other) all have benefits, but might prevent the cardiac benefits of Aspirin, and may enhance risks of GI bleeding.

    Tylenol has reasonable benefits and can be used in combinations with other meds, altho amounts are limited due to risk of liver injury.

    No one has mentioned opiates, altho one has referred to marihuana as an analgesic. Opiates are excellent for rapid control of pain related to acute injury. They can help one get to a trailhead, or tolerate waiting for a search party. Ask your doc about whether this would be helpful to carry.

    Marihuana may help discomfort of other sorts, but not for inflammation or pain from injury. It has adverse effects including incarceration for those carrying modest amounts.

  2. #62
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emerald View Post
    The anti-inflammation zone: reversing the silent epidemic that's destroying our health by Barry Sears, Ph.D.

    Refer also to the thread I started What does it mean to "flow" with the trail? Flowing with the trail among other things implies you are not overextending your capabilities. You should be in harmony with what the trail demands. If you're not, you're doing yourself harm beyond a point which is easily exceeded and not sustainable.
    fish oil and curcumin are at least harmless, and may do some good. The best bet is to start slow and listen to what your body is telling you. None of the pain medicines, both over the counter or prescribed, are harmless. REmember. Drug companies and health insurance companies are powerful. FDA is weak. Drug companies like over the counter, once their patents expire. Insurance companies like over the counter, because it means their policies no longer have to pay for the use of the drugs.

    "Vitamin I" can be especially harmful. And tylenol may be even worse if taken on a regular basis. Many, perhaps most, fatal liver failures occur from the unwise use of tylenol and it's many over the counter equivalents.

    Weary

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Drug companies and health insurance companies are powerful. FDA is weak... "Vitamin I" can be especially harmful. And tylenol may be even worse if taken on a regular basis. Many, perhaps most, fatal liver failures occur from the unwise use of tylenol and it's many over the counter equivalents.
    The FDA and drug companies work together to gain money and power from consumers and taxpayors. That "contest" between them is fake and staged. Look at the number of business leaders who end up working as heads of governmental agencies.
    No one is suggesting an extended use of ibuprofen or tylenol. Reread the posts. In addition, alcohol and viral hepatitis cause more cases of liver failure than acetominiphen.
    "Keep moving: death is very, very still."
    ---Lily Wagner (nee Hennessy)

  4. #64
    Registered User Egads's Avatar
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    Use aspirin. Stay away from the anti-inflammatories
    The trail was here before we arrived, and it will still be here when we are gone...enjoy it now, and preserve it for others that come after us

  5. #65
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkmangold View Post
    The FDA and drug companies work together to gain money and power from consumers and taxpayors. That "contest" between them is fake and staged. Look at the number of business leaders who end up working as heads of governmental agencies.
    No one is suggesting an extended use of ibuprofen or tylenol. Reread the posts. In addition, alcohol and viral hepatitis cause more cases of liver failure than acetominiphen.
    Therapeutic considerations
    Licence data US FDA:link

    Paracetamol (INN) (pronounced /ˌpærəˈsiːtəmɒl, ˌpærəˈsɛtəmɒl/) or acetaminophen (/əˌsiːtəˈmɪnɵfɨn/ ( listen)) (USAN) is a widely used over-the-counter analgesic (pain reliever) and antipyretic (fever reducer). It is commonly used for the relief of fever, headaches, and other minor aches and pains, and is a major ingredient in numerous cold and flu remedies. In combination with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) and opioid analgesics, paracetamol is used also in the management of more severe pain (such as postoperative pain).[1]

    While generally safe for human use at recommended doses (1000 mg per single dose and up to 4000 mg per day for adults, up to 2000 mg per day if drinking alcohol[2]), acute overdoses of paracetamol can cause potentially fatal liver damage and, in rare individuals, a normal dose can do the same; the risk is heightened by alcohol consumption. Paracetamol toxicity is the foremost cause of acute liver failure in the Western world, and accounts for most drug overdoses in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand.[3][4][5][6]

    Weary here:

    I generally agree with mkmangold first comments. But he is wrong about the dangers of general trail use of tylenol and it's competitors. We all use the stuff -- even me occasionally. When I can't sleep tylenol and a anti-alergy ingredient (tylenol pm) induces a welcome relief.

    But for folks who drink -- and occasionally binge drink (read AT trail journals and White Blaze if you doubt this happens frequently ) tylenol is far more deadly, than alcohol alone or exposure to a hepititus virus. I drink, not binge drink, but more than the 2 drinks that are safe with tylenol use. I shy away from more than occasional use of the drug. As should all young people who have far more at risk than I do, thousands of 20 to 30 year olds, and above, have suddenly discovered they no longer have a functioning liver.

    Sometimes the impact can be reversed. Quite often a liver transplant is required, and a life of expensive drugs to prevent failure of the borrowed liver. Death is a common consequence.

    Weary

  6. #66

    :banana Maybe...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelterLeopard View Post
    (I mean, if I take Ibuprofin and and Aleve, will my head explode?)
    Try it and report back.
    "Adam & Eve are the first two persons who failed to read the Apple Permissions & Exclusions."

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    ...Sometimes the impact can be reversed. Quite often a liver transplant is required, and a life of expensive drugs to prevent failure of the borrowed liver. Death is a common consequence.
    Thanks for the research and verification of what I feared was true, Weary. About 20 years ago, my wife was diagnosed with rheumatroid arthritis which put her on crutches for most of a year. The docs prescribed huge doses of meds, mostly OTC stuff. Instead, she goes out and buys a new pair of hiking shoes, starts walking with a light pack, and thru-hiked the CT, AT and PCT within ten years of diagnosis without a single pill. Still in remission today and no pain killers in the house. She's hiked 50 miles on day hikes in the last four days. The meds might have killed her by now.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  8. #68
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    If you choose an NSAID (ibuprofen, aspirin, naproxen, etc), a practical issue for the trail is that naproxen has a much longer half life than ibuprofen hence fewer pills per day and therefore fewer to carry. If bleeding with NSAIDs is a problem for you, talk to your doctor about something like Celebrex as an alternative NSAID for moderate use on the trail. Good luck!

  9. #69
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT 560 miles 10-K's Avatar
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    Call me crazy but I take 400mg of ibuprofen most mornings before I start hiking to get in front of the shoulder/back/neck soreness that comes from carrying a pack all day.

  10. #70
    Registered User Donde's Avatar
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    to orangebug: Tramadol(Ultram) is not an NSAID it is a analgesic and while not chemicly a narcotic it functions in a very similar manner.

    Egads: Asprin is an anti inflammatory.

    Schlep: delete us all and just talk to your doc and/or shaman depending on how you roll.

  11. #71
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    Call me crazy but I take 400mg of ibuprofen most mornings before I start hiking to get in front of the shoulder/back/neck soreness that comes from carrying a pack all day.
    Here's what Drugs.com has to say about Advil, Advil Childrens, Advil Junior Strength, Advil Liquigel, Advil Migraine, Advil Pediatric, Childrens Ibuprofen Berry, Genpril, Ibu, IBU-200, Midol IB, Midol Maximum Strength Cramp Formula, Motrin, Motrin Childrens, Motrin IB, Motrin Infant Drops, Motrin Junior Strength, Motrin Migraine Pain, Nuprin, (all names for ibuprofen)

    "This medicine can increase your risk of life-threatening heart or circulation problems, including heart attack or stroke. This risk will increase the longer you use ibuprofen. Do not use this medicine just before or after having heart bypass surgery (also called coronary artery bypass graft, or CABG).

    "Seek emergency medical help if you have symptoms of heart or circulation problems, such as chest pain, weakness, shortness of breath, slurred speech, or problems with vision or balance.

    "This medicine can also increase your risk of serious effects on the stomach or intestines, including bleeding or perforation (forming of a hole). These conditions can be fatal and gastrointestinal effects can occur without warning at any time while you are taking ibuprofen. Older adults may have an even greater risk of these serious gastrointestinal side effects.

    "Call your doctor at once if you have symptoms of bleeding in your stomach or intestines. This includes black, bloody, or tarry stools, or coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds.

    "Do not take more of this medication than is recommended. An overdose of ibuprofen can cause damage to your stomach or intestines. The maximum amount of ibuprofen for adults is 800 milligrams per dose or 3200 mg per day (4 maximum doses). Use only the smallest amount of ibuprofen needed to get relief from your pain, swelling, or fever. Avoid taking ibuprofen if you are taking aspirin to prevent stroke or heart attack. Ibuprofen can make aspirin less effective in protecting your heart and blood vessels. If you must use both medications, take the ibuprofen at least 8 hours before or 30 minutes after you take the aspirin (non-enteric coated form). Do not drink alcohol while taking ibuprofen. Alcohol can increase your risk of stomach bleeding caused by ibuprofen. "

  12. #72
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT 560 miles 10-K's Avatar
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    I'm still waiting on an erection that lasts more than 4 hours..

    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Here's what Drugs.com has to say about Advil, Advil Childrens, Advil Junior Strength, Advil Liquigel, Advil Migraine, Advil Pediatric, Childrens Ibuprofen Berry, Genpril, Ibu, IBU-200, Midol IB, Midol Maximum Strength Cramp Formula, Motrin, Motrin Childrens, Motrin IB, Motrin Infant Drops, Motrin Junior Strength, Motrin Migraine Pain, Nuprin, (all names for ibuprofen)

    "This medicine can increase your risk of life-threatening heart or circulation problems, including heart attack or stroke. This risk will increase the longer you use ibuprofen. Do not use this medicine just before or after having heart bypass surgery (also called coronary artery bypass graft, or CABG).

    "Seek emergency medical help if you have symptoms of heart or circulation problems, such as chest pain, weakness, shortness of breath, slurred speech, or problems with vision or balance.

    "This medicine can also increase your risk of serious effects on the stomach or intestines, including bleeding or perforation (forming of a hole). These conditions can be fatal and gastrointestinal effects can occur without warning at any time while you are taking ibuprofen. Older adults may have an even greater risk of these serious gastrointestinal side effects.

    "Call your doctor at once if you have symptoms of bleeding in your stomach or intestines. This includes black, bloody, or tarry stools, or coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds.

    "Do not take more of this medication than is recommended. An overdose of ibuprofen can cause damage to your stomach or intestines. The maximum amount of ibuprofen for adults is 800 milligrams per dose or 3200 mg per day (4 maximum doses). Use only the smallest amount of ibuprofen needed to get relief from your pain, swelling, or fever. Avoid taking ibuprofen if you are taking aspirin to prevent stroke or heart attack. Ibuprofen can make aspirin less effective in protecting your heart and blood vessels. If you must use both medications, take the ibuprofen at least 8 hours before or 30 minutes after you take the aspirin (non-enteric coated form). Do not drink alcohol while taking ibuprofen. Alcohol can increase your risk of stomach bleeding caused by ibuprofen. "

  13. #73
    Registered User ShelterLeopard's Avatar
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    Thanks Donde- will talk to the doc, seeing her on Monday anyway. Thanks all!
    2010 AT NoBo Thru "attempt" (guess 1,700 miles didn't quite get me all the way through ;) )
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  14. #74
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    I've never taken viagra, but when I was younger I think I had an erection most all of the time.
    Today, if I had one for more than 4 hours I would probably call my doctor, but I'd be calling everybody.

  15. #75
    Registered User ShelterLeopard's Avatar
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    Well, I certainly do not need to worry about any erections, thanks!
    2010 AT NoBo Thru "attempt" (guess 1,700 miles didn't quite get me all the way through ;) )
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  16. #76
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT 560 miles 10-K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelterLeopard View Post
    Well, I certainly do not need to worry about any erections, thanks!
    I was poking fun at Weary's litany of the dangers of ibuprofen.

    It reminded me of the pharmaceutical ads you hear on TV - the Viagra commercial lists several dire side effects and the last thing the announcer says is "Consult your doctor if you have an erection that lasts more than 4 hours."

  17. #77
    Registered User ShelterLeopard's Avatar
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    And I was poking fun at you!
    2010 AT NoBo Thru "attempt" (guess 1,700 miles didn't quite get me all the way through ;) )
    Various adventures in Siberia 2016
    Adventures past and present!
    (and maybe 2018 PCT NoBo)

  18. #78
    Registered User Six-Six's Avatar
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    My dr (a runner) tells me to take Acetomenophenfor general headaches and general muscle pain, take IB for more specific muscle pain, and Aleve for specific joint pain or tendon irritations.
    Here's my go-to website on the subject: http://familydoctor.org/online/famdo...cines/862.html

    Hike within yourself and you probably won't need much of any of these at all.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    I'm still waiting on an erection that lasts more than 4 hours..
    I don't even think I've had a 4 hour erection cumulatively.

  20. #80
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    Haven't read this whole thread, but Weary's post above is spot on. Speaking as someone who has been known to pull a cork now and again, () I asked a doctor friend about this, and he confirmed that within reason, Ibuprofen and alcohol are not contra-indicated, i.e. it's OK to have a few drinks while you're using Vitamin I. However, he made it very clear that alcohol use combined with acetominophen (i.e. Tylenol, etc.) is never a good idea.

    In short, if, like most thru-hikers, you enjoy adult beverages, be careful what medications you're taking at the same time.

    Very good of Weary to mention this as most folks are unaware of this.

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