Marmot Helium 15 degree vs. Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15 degree?

**ShelterLeopard** · 10-13-2009, 13:43

So which (in your opinion) is the better bag? I need a comfortable down bag, that is light, compressible, basically, everything. And should I get the women's bag? Or the regular? (I'm an average sized female, 5' 5") This bag is for my February start in GA, switching it out in Harpers Ferry for a lighter bag. (I'm also bringing a liner)

So, which one? Marmot Hydrogen, or MH Phantom?

**saimyoji** · 10-13-2009, 13:49

i use the marmot pinnacle (15*) and have had it down to around 5*. 3oz. heavier than the Helium

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catal...ail.cfm/MA1899

**Spokes** · 10-13-2009, 13:52

I've had a Marmot Helium for several years now and really have enjoyed it (cold sleeper here). I carried it on this years thru and never once got cold. I took a silk liner just in case but never used it.

As far as sizing goes I tend to buy my bags a bit larger for extra wiggle room. It's not fun feeling cramped inside a mummy bag. You'll have enough of that in crowded shelters next year.......

**ShelterLeopard** · 10-13-2009, 13:56

So, perhaps the Marmot has won out already? I'll wait a day or two before leaping to conclusions though. We shall see!

**Johnny Thunder** · 10-13-2009, 13:57

I have the Phantom. It's good but if I could spend the money again I'd buy the Helium (or another like it). My summer bag is the Atom and I feel like it's warmer for the fill weight than the Phantom (even though there's almost twice as much in the Phantom). Also, the Phantom has a 1/2 length zipper which is supper annoying when it gets unseasonably warm or if you want to share the bag with a neighbor. Also, the lining on the Phantom is oddly stiff and slick and doesn't feel inviting until after you've washed it a few times.

Ummm...I think that's about it.

As far as the mass-produced 800 fill bags go, the Marmots are somehow special. Mountain Hardware, though good, seem ordinary by comparison.

**Jester2000** · 10-13-2009, 13:58

I would go with the Phantom 15, and I would go with the women's version, unless you're so in love with the men's color that you can't help yourself. We have these in the store and the women's regular is 8" shorter than the men's regular (70" vs. 78") and would fit you better.

Plus there's extra insulation in the torso and footbox.

**mlkelley** · 10-13-2009, 14:01

While in my tent, on a prolite4, my Helium has taken me down to into the lower teens quite comfortably(and lower while wearing layers). I love it. I have no personal experience with the MH bags, but can't say as I've heard any bad reports.

**Jester2000** · 10-13-2009, 14:13

I thnk maybe Johnny's post is bringing me around. The Phantom does, in fact, have a shorter zipper (3/4 legth, not 1/2), which has never bothered me, but might bother others. If you're planning on switching out to a different bag this might not be an issue.

The helium is also slightly lighter, which is probably the function of a slightly better quality down. (850 vs. 800). If you were only going to go for one bag, maybe the Helium would be the choice. If you're switching out, though, maybe the Phantom. Have you gotten in both bags yet to see which is more comfortable for you? For the women's regular versions, the Phantom is longer, but the shoulder girth is narrower.

**skinewmexico** · 10-13-2009, 15:29

I just consider Marmot to be better quality than MH, especially now that Columbia owns MH. And I'm not just saying that because MH refused to warranty my non-waterproof Silk Conduit jacket. That had only been worn 5 times, and twice in rain. Well, maybe that affects my opinion.

**garlic08** · 10-13-2009, 17:05

I have the Helium and absolutely love it. I have over 5000 trail miles on mine. I have used it down into the single digits in blowing snow and have actually slept comfortably, not just survival mode. I think the 15F rating is conservative.

My wife has a womens Helium and it's her best bag ever, too. She's a very cold sleeper and has been comfortable in low 20s and has never tried it colder.

I used a MH Phantom 45 as a summer bag last year and it was a good bag for the cost, so nothing against MH.

**Wags** · 10-13-2009, 17:16

i personally don't think you'll go wrong with either bag. both are made by excellent companies and share many similar characteristics. i've had some excellent service by marmot on some gear and a few people here love their heliums. MH doesn't ever get any love here, but i use a different MH bag (piute) from time-to-time and really like it. i find it comfy against my bare skin, zipper doesn't snag, and it's true to its rating without supplimental clothing.

i'd lean towards whichever one i could find cheaper

the 1/2 zipper would be a deal breaker for me, honestly

**Jester2000** · 10-13-2009, 17:30

Originally Posted by Wags

the 1/2 zipper would be a deal breaker for me, honestly

It's a 3/4 zipper. As there's rarely a woman around who wants to zip her sleeping bag to mine, it's not that much of an issue (I know that's difficult to believe). Unzipping the bag 3/4 of the way is still plenty for me when it's warm out. Any warmer and I'd be sleeping on top of the bag anyway.

**WILLIAM HAYES** · 10-13-2009, 17:49

helium is my choice have used one for years in some very nasty cold weather -the helium is better quality in my judgement get the EQ it works better in wet weather which you will definately experience on the AT

**pjbarr** · 10-13-2009, 18:03

hey shelterleopard, all marmot down bags are on sale at REI right now 25% off!

**Mocs123** · 10-13-2009, 18:05

ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style>  </style> Lucky for you both bags (the men’s versions at least) have been tested using EN 13537 standards. These expensive tests use thermal manikins to rate the warmth of sleeping bags. Not that that means they will work at those temps for you as everyone sleeps different, but it does help you compare two similar bags to each other. They show 3 ratings:
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The Comfort Rating: The lowest temperature that the “average” Woman can sleep comfortably. (Women tend to sleep colder than men)
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The Lower Limit Rating: The lowest temperature that the “average” Man can sleep comfortably.
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The Extreme Rating: The lowest temperature that an “average” woman can use the bag without bodily harm (i.e. frostbite)
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Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15 (Men’s version, women’s version not tested)
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Men’s Rating: 15* F
Women’s Rating: 26*F
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20 ounces of 800 fill down (for a regular 6’ bag) (Women’s version has 20 ounces of down for the 70” length.)
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Marmot Helium (Men’s version)
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Men’s Rating 16.3*F
Women’s Rating 27.7*F
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19.5 ounces of 850 fill down (for a regular 6’ bag)
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Marmot Women’s Helium
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Men’s Rating 18*F
Women’s Rating 28.9* F
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19 ounces of 850 fill down
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As a average sized woman you would probably do better with a Woman’s Bag if for no other reason than there would be less internal space to heat up in a Woman’s bag than a longer, wider, Men’s Bag. I don’t have a Marmot Bag, but I do have a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0 and two Western Mountaineering Bags. The hood on the Mountain Hardwear is very nice particularly if you sleep on your back. One other thing to note is the Mountain Hardwear bag has a draft collar, and I don’t think the Marmot does, at least the earlier version of the Helieum did not and it doesn’t look like the new one does either from the picture. That probably has a lot to do with why the Phantom tested a few degrees warmer than the Helium as otherwise they are very similar bags.

**NitroSteel** · 10-13-2009, 18:08

I love all of my Mountain Hardwear stuff, but I think that the MH sleeping bag you are looking at only comes in a half-length zipper, and most of the time (for me at least), that would keep me way too warm. Plus, I think the MH bags fit a bit more snug also.

I've heard they are great on temp ratings, but I love my Western Mountaineering sleeping bags for overall snag-free full length zippers, light weight and awesome down. Hard to find them on sale, but I've bought two brand new ones that way...

**Jester2000** · 10-13-2009, 19:15

Originally Posted by NitroSteel

I love all of my Mountain Hardwear stuff, but I think that the MH sleeping bag you are looking at only comes in a half-length zipper. . .

I'll post for the third time that it's a 3/4 legth zipper, and if someone brings it up again I'll figure you're all just trying to annoy me.

**Wags** · 10-13-2009, 20:06

1/2 zipper

**MintakaCat** · 10-13-2009, 21:16

I have a MH 32 degree bag and a MH 0 degree bag and love both of them. I also have a couple of Marmot jackets that are excellent. So, its a tought call for me. I think either would be fine.

**Reid** · 10-13-2009, 22:21

Both are great companies. I've never had either of those bags but If I had to choose just based on my experiences I'd go with the marmot. That would also be a skewed opinion becuase I've had more marmot bags than Mtn hardwear bags.

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