Ray Jardine hiking the AT in 2009 ??

[Wolf - 23000]

I sense some sour grapes here...

Jardine was not the first, nor the lightest, etc..etc.

But, he undeniably popularized the concepts and made it seem more accessible to many people.

Sure..others can come up with the ideas on their own.

However, I could learn how to do a bowline hitch on my own, too. Does not mean I want to do it.

Did he??? The light weight gear has been around long before Ray Jardine book ever came out. Grandma Gatewood, John Muir and many others all did it long before Jardine ever came out with his book. To say he made it more accessible I would doubt. The gear to travel ultra-light has been around ever sense I can remember – years before Jardine book.

As for you saying he, “popularized the concept” I don’t know about that. How many light weight websites or videos, books are out there about lightweight backpacking by folks other than Jardine? I think it is safe to say many. This website, to it credit, has a given many, many, many hikers more advise on backpacking than Jardine has ever. To give Jardine or any one person credit either way I don’t believe.

Even if Jardine never wrote his book or step foot on the trail, gear would still have gotten lighter and hikers would still be carrying what they are today.

Wolf

[Nean]

What is it about authors and WB folks?

One writes a semi popular book and a significant number of people want to tear his toe nails off?

I remember trying to read his book, Beyond Backpacking, a number of years ago, and I was unable to.

Because it was out of print!

It took me several months to track down a copy.

Although I don't agree with everything he writes, he did get some folks to, at least, question, what they are doing. And that is a genuine, although dangerous, accomplishment.

Have you ever stopped to think that it has nothing to do w/ writing a book? It has nothing to do w/ success or the net- either What does that leave you with?

[Darwin again]

he's got cash. it allows one to do "cool" stuff. a fact. i know folks who live right here in the damascus area that never traveled more than 500 miles from these "hollers" and do incredible work right here. the major majority of folks in this world don't have the luxury of "peak-bagging" and ego building. i'll take the holler folks any day

Some peoples' minds and bodies operate at a higher level than most other peoples'.

Jardine invented, among other things, climbing friends. He was an aerospace engineer who quit to go climbing routes that had never been climbed before. He has the brains to make money to fund his global adventures and lifestyle. Can't fault him for working hard and being smart and successful. He also developed the go-light philosophy before someone who I won't name here took it to market and made a mint.

[Mags]

Did he??? The light weight gear has been around long before Ray Jardine book ever came out. G

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Look, I am not a Jardine cheerleader. But I am not going to demonize the man either.

As I said umpteenth times...there were/are others before and after.

But I sincerely doubt the whole idea would have gain as much momentum when it did if it was not for the little book.

I am repeating myself again. 'Nuff said.

[Wolf - 23000]

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Look, I am not a Jardine cheerleader. But I am not going to demonize the man either.

As I said umpteenth times...there were/are others before and after.

But I sincerely doubt the whole idea would have gain as much momentum when it did if it was not for the little book.

I am repeating myself again. 'Nuff said.

Mag,

I think you misunderstood my post. First, I don't think anyone here is demonizing the guy. I've never met the guy. He may be a great guy, he may not. I don't know.

What we are going to disagree about is how much influence he really gave through his book. I don't believe it was just one man or woman really revolutionizes lightweight backpacking. As you said, and we agree, there were others that were doing the same thing as Jardine before, during and after his book. You may feel different and that is your option as I have mine. Peace.

Wolf

[fiddlehead]

I've heard that they still call the guys who are "running for the border": Jardine-ites or "Jardin-nazis" out on the PCT.
The books were written in the mid-90's.
If that isn't influence, what is?

[Wolf - 23000]

I've heard that they still call the guys who are "running for the border": Jardine-ites or "Jardin-nazis" out on the PCT.
The books were written in the mid-90's.
If that isn't influence, what is?

Fiddlehead,

There were hikers that wanted to call me that too even when Jardine’s book had the reverse affect on my first thru-hike and had me carrying more weight than what I needed. I’m not saying his book didn’t have some influence to help the average rookie hiker from leaving Campo, CA with a lighter pack but not as much as he is given credit for. The average hiker after the initial break-in period will do that all by themselves after the first month or so. There are plenty of UL hikers that have never read Ray Jardine book but yet some followers still want to give Jardine credit for helping them travel lighter.

What I would contribute helping hikers the most to lighten is the internet. Sites like WhiteBlaze where hikers can ask their questions to a vast knowledge of other hikers - something that was around or near as popular back in the 1990s. Manufactures companies can also get real input on the quality of their product from hikers needed to make improvements. That is were I give the credit to.

Wolf

[fiddlehead]

Maybe i ran into different hikers than you did Wolf.
But i distinctly remember a bunch of them telling me why they jettisoned the top of their pack, sewed mesh pockets in place of heavier canvas ones, used umbrellas, switched to running shoes, even putting their water bottles in their mesh pockets upside down (something i still do). I remember one them saying: Well Ray Jardine says to do it like this.

I'm not saying they wouldn't have learned it otherwise. I possibly would have learned to sew mesh pockets where my regular pockets were anyway, or to walk barefoot to toughen my feet. But in reality, i didn't learn it somewhere else. I learned these things either from his book or from his Jardine-ite followers.

I never met the man and possibly wouldn't like him as he is a bit of an egocentric isn't he.
But i would certainly respect the things he's done and the things he's taught me.
I'm always in awe of a triple crowner or someone who's sailed around the world or been to the south or north pole. I have met a few of them in my time and they are interesting people.

Now, Jenny? I'd like to have a few hours chat with her too and see how many of his ideas were hers.

I put him in the same category as Royal Robbins or Yvon Chouinard as inventors and explorers that amazed me. (And yes, Grandma Gatewood would most likely fit into that category too although i don't know if she invented much besides a way to hike the trail without much stuff.)

[max patch]

even putting their water bottles in their mesh pockets upside down (something i still do).

fiddlehead, why do you do this?

[fiddlehead]

It is much easier to put them in, especially if you don't take your pack off to get your bottle in or out, it can be done with one hand easily.

It's just a little thing but something i learned that year on the PCT from one of the disciples. I sort of laughed at him for saying he learned it from Jardine as i thought it was pretty stupid. But then i started trying it and now...............well, i still do.

(i prefer a gatoraid bottle but any pepsi bottle is ok too) (sometimes easier to fill a gatoraid bottle quicker though)

[Wolf - 23000]

Fiddlehead,

I ran into most PCT hikers in 1996 and almost all PCT hikers in 1997. In 1996, I was behind you for about half of the PCT before getting ahead for the last 1,000 miles.

I also remember running into many, many hikers who were either tossing out their corn spaghetti into food boxes (wasting money they could have used else where) or that ran into some serious trouble hikers hiking through the Sierra because they didn’t know how to get over the pass or because it was ice rain/snowing on them (risking their safety). The PCT handbook in those cases had hurt their hike rather than helped.

What he took away was hikers thinking for themselves – well Jardine does it this way so I have to. What about the Jardine’s fans that still needed someone to tell them what to carry or how to do some basic wilderness things? Or what about the irresponsible hikers that read his book that might have the gear but don’t have the knowledge to go with it. What about the hikers like me that were carrying more weight because of some bad advise/information in his book.

I don’t believe his book didn’t help as much some people would like to believe and in some ways set back responsible UL hiking.

As for Jardine as a person, I never met the guy so I can’t say I would either like him or not. I won’t ditch some of the things he has done like go to the Pole, or sailed around the world -- which I have no interest in doing but if it made him happy so be it. As Lone Wolf pointed out, it takes money. If I had the money, I would be doing a lot more than I am now too.

Wolf

[Sly]

I'll start with the foot wear. I know myself back in 1989, was hiking long distance in sneakers/lightweight boots. Warren Dole has been doing it way before me. Grandma Gatewood before him. It been done by many hikers long before Jardine ever even came out with his book.

That may be true but how many people read your, or Warren's or GrandMa Gatewood's book that help revolutionize footwear backpackers wear?

[Sly]

NOT READ THE ULTALIGHT BIBLE, that is simply unforgiveable. You simply cannot hike without reading it. Oh the horror.

I found his PCT Thru-hikers Handbook a valuable resource for hiking that trail.

[Sly]

all it takes is money

If that were the case I would have finished my last two attempts. That said, running out of money, caused a delay in finishing my 1st two attempts.

[Wolf - 23000]

That may be true but how many people read your, or Warren's or GrandMa Gatewood's book that help revolutionize footwear backpackers wear?

I have never written a book and to my knowledge neither has Grandma Gatewood either. Warren I believe has written one, how well it did you would have to ask him.

Ok, reverse question, how many times have hikers mention they hike in sneakers vs boots on the internet. I think it is safe to say, a lot more times than the amount of books Jardine soild.

Wolf

[Jack Tarlin]

I was unaware that Grandma Gatewood had ever written a book.

Likewise, if Warren Doyle has had an actual book published, I am also unaware of this, and have never seen a copy.

If I am wrong about any of this, I'd be happy to be corrected. In fact, I'd welcome being corrected; if books by either of these folks are extant, I'd like to read them.

[Lone Wolf]

neither of them have written books. but i wrote the book (unpublished) on going heavy, blue-blazing and just havin' fun

[Jack Tarlin]

When Lone Wolf writes a book, I will very happily be the first person to purchase it.

[winger]

Mental masturbation.
Incredulous and insignificant bantering.
Read what you like, respect, enjoy or what inspires you.
What books are on your library shelf?
Desecrating those who have the creative inspiration to make public their ideas through literature, diaries etc, is quite pathetic.

[Lone Wolf]

i was just gonna say that winger. ya beat me to it