Retail outdoor stores (a joke?)

[wrongway_08]

I still say to the ones who go out and waste a stores time tryn on crap and fitting gear - knowing they are just going to go online to buy it - should drop the store a few dollars for the help they just recieved.
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Its a shame stores cant charge a few dollars to these people. Of course without a customer being honest enough to say thats what they are doing, then the store has no way of knowing.
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But if your okay with stealing a stores time and knowledge - then more power to your cheap ass...... Karma will get you and I hope its on a cold rainy night, when everything is soaked and that gear you saved $30.00 on by buyn off the internet, right after you screwed over the nice retailer/saleperson who spent 2 hours of his time explaining stuff and helping you fit it properly - fails you!!
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No, I dont do retail sales. Some things are right and some are wrong, if your not man/woman enough to own up to doing the right thing - you deserve what you get.

[Bearpaw]

I still say to the ones who go out and waste a stores time tryn on crap and fitting gear - knowing they are just going to go online to buy it - should drop the store a few dollars for the help they just recieved.

The best way is to buy a shirt or pair of shorts or socks or a belt or some clothing item. Clothing has the highest markup of any thing in the store, yet ultimately costs most customers the least. It's a simple way to support your local outfitter with a purchase you may well need any way.

[Egads]

I rarely spend my money when the prices are outrageously high. The market is trying to send you a message, drop your prices.

and retail availability of hiking gear will continue to get rarer, with the possible exception of places near popular hiking trails

I shop online first and show up at the stores knowing the best online price. I try out the gear and ask the vendor to drop their price.

The sale is usually their decision.

And I have paid more than the online price because of the service and convenience of walking out the door with the gear. I have done so several times at Winton's store.

[nufsaid]

I go to my local shop to try stuff on - then order it online. They have corp execs/greedy owners somewhere that are trying to feed the greed with my money, so I do not feel guilty about it. Our local shop only carries brands like MSR that have a huge mark-up. I know the local shops are trying to get rich and feed their own greed - but some of the prices are not in touch with reality.
I try to look at a peice of gear in terms of labor and material - there is not that much involved in a lot of the high priced gear that is offered.

Hooty,

You should be ashamed of yourself (but I doubt you are). If you want to go into a store and look and not involve a staff person that is fine. But to take up the time of the workers when you know you are not going to buy anything isn't cool. You can ease your guilt by saying you don't like corp execs or greedy owners. But most owners are just people trying to make a living in spite of taxes and government roadblocks. If you don't like the prices, don't shop there. Go to WalMart. Nothing wrong with WalMart.

[BR360]

I have this to say to the OP: Caveat emptor. (That means "Buyer Beware.")

You get what you pay for. It is a hassle to buy something online, wait for it to arrive, and try it on, find it's not what you want, pay to ship it back, get another, etc. Or when it breaks, you have to ship it back (your dime) to get it repaired or replaced. Etc.

With local retailers, you've got instant hands-on, plus actual comparison with other gear, plus no wait for the gear, plus someone to go to when the gear fowls up, or you change your mind. I think all those factors are often (but not always) worth the extra price.

As for those who "shop locally, then buy online," well, there will always be jerks in this world.

I ran a small outfitter for 5 years back in the 80's [ has it been that long ago?] Even in that era we had people drain our beta, then go "mail-order" from Campmor or REI (which had few retail locations except Seattle and Denver). These folks always asked too many questions, hypotheticals.

I learned to spot them, but I always took the challenge to present the value that we offered.

If they were straight up with me about what they were doing, such as thinking about a North Face bag that we sold, or a mail-ordering a Holubar bag mail-order, I'd actually help them out.

But the serial abusers, I'd just ignore.

So to the OP, to reframe your question, I'd say: Naive consumers (a joke?)

[A-Train]

I shop online first and show up at the stores knowing the best online price. I try out the gear and ask the vendor to drop their price.

The sale is usually their decision.

And I have paid more than the online price because of the service and convenience of walking out the door with the gear. I have done so several times at Winton's store.

That seems kinda arrogant, IMO. I used to work at a shop and occasionally people would ask for a better price. Reputable outfitters aren't open air markets. They've got staff to pay, rent, bills to the manufacturers, etc. It's nice that some companies have had the ability to price match, but because you saw something cheaper online doesn't mean that their shop turns into an episode of Lets Make a Deal.

Prices are there for a reason.

[fiddlehead]

I used to date a girl that worked at an outfitter. One time someone came in looking for some fingerless gloves which the outfitter didn't have. She told them to drive about 10 miles away to a competitor because she saw them there recently.
When he left, she got chewed out by the owner BIG TIME! He told her, next time she'd lose her job.

Another friend worked at REI and had just completed a thru-hike. She was caught talking a future thru-hiker out of the $200+ leather boots and into a pair of $100 trail runners. AGain, she was reprimanded for it and learned that if she wanted to keep her job, she had to start milking the customers for as much money as possible.

Sad but true.

Not saying all outfitters are like this. But it does happen more than you think.
It's a fine line between a good salesman and someone who separates you from your money.

[drastic_quench]

I don't know how people can take issue with haggling. Just like comparison shopping, it's as old as the hills too. Worst case, the retailer says no - it's his option. Paying retail is for the birds. Now I know lots of people don't like to haggle, and that's their choice, but if someone's got the gumption to deal - good for them. If this economy keeps up, I think more people are going to acquaint themselves with this age old money-saving practice.

The last time I was in REI I haggled the manager down on a titanium pot. It was the last in the store, the display model, and it was missing the handle. All that played into my polite haggle, and I was gladly offered a deal. Big whoop.

[A-Train]

I don't know how people can take issue with haggling. Just like comparison shopping, it's as old as the hills too. Worst case, the retailer says no - it's his option. Paying retail is for the birds. Now I know lots of people don't like to haggle, and that's their choice, but if someone's got the gumption to deal - good for them. If this economy keeps up, I think more people are going to acquaint themselves with this age old money-saving practice.

The last time I was in REI I haggled the manager down on a titanium pot. It was the last in the store, the display model, and it was missing the handle. All that played into my polite haggle, and I was gladly offered a deal. Big whoop.

Right. It was missing a piece and the display model, so they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it at full price, it was basically used.

I'm talking about brand new items that are fresh out of the box. Ask away if you want, you won't loose anything from it. Just don't expect the shop owner to give you the price you feel like paying is all I'm saying.

An outfitter will see in time whether the price of a product needs to be lowered. Not everything "needs" to be sold at twice the cost of buying it from the manufacturer.

[Egads]

That seems kinda arrogant, IMO. I used to work at a shop and occasionally people would ask for a better price. Reputable outfitters aren't open air markets. They've got staff to pay, rent, bills to the manufacturers, etc. It's nice that some companies have had the ability to price match, but because you saw something cheaper online doesn't mean that their shop turns into an episode of Lets Make a Deal.

Prices are there for a reason.

Right. It was missing a piece and the display model, so they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it at full price, it was basically used.

I'm talking about brand new items that are fresh out of the box. Ask away if you want, you won't loose anything from it. Just don't expect the shop owner to give you the price you feel like paying is all I'm saying.

An outfitter will see in time whether the price of a product needs to be lowered. Not everything "needs" to be sold at twice the cost of buying it from the manufacturer.

Two comments:

Reread the last line from my post

Ever been to Mexico?

[Blue Jay]

... the Outdoors isn't a HUGE market, but nonetheless I was just shocked and a little bit outraged by some 300+ dollar pairs of boots that I have looked at online for 160-180 brand spankin new!

The Outdoors is a huge market, just not for those who actually go outdoors. The vast majority of people hate to go outdoors but want very much to LOOK like they go outdoors. They are more than willing to pay a lot for this look.

[buzzamania]

There is a painful lack of decent outfitters in CT. PAINFUL.

Nothing like the south. . . . The nearest REI is 6 hours away from the panhandle of Florida 6 HOURS! (north of Atlanta) Then when you get there they have 3 within 30 minutes of each other??

You folks talking about greed. There's no greed. . .you watch too much CNN. If you think you can make a butane stove and package and sell it to these retailers for $15 bucks and undercut MSR and all the others then do it. Business is business. Supply and demand. Go to brunton.com and look at all their low end stoves ($40 and up). They are all back ordered. Why is that? Because they can't make em fast enough. If I am in business and I know my customers are used to paying, happy to pay, a certain price then I'm going to price it to sell and not a penny less.

I think if anything this is a great discussion/argument to make as much of your gear as possible from materials you already have or can aquire and have made to fit your needs.

[A-Train]

Two comments:

Reread the last line from my post

Ever been to Mexico?

Well your post is unclear. Do you ask Winton to drop his prices, or just when you don't know the owners?

I understand simple economics and supply and demand. If you re-read my post you'll see I said retailers will realize when they need to drop prices. But you marching in the day they are putting a new product on the shelf and asking for 30 bucks off is probably not gonna fly, but i'd love to hear otherwise.

All I'm saying is spend a couple years working at essentially minimum wage while your livelihood revolves on little commission and your "expertise" about the equipment and some here wouldn't be singing the same tune.

This is all I will say about this topic, and I've appreciated the different viewpoints.

p.s. No, I've never been to Mexico, but I did reach my arm under the border fence twice before starting walks to Canada Adios!

[Feral Bill]

I used to date a girl that worked at an outfitter. One time someone came in looking for some fingerless gloves which the outfitter didn't have. She told them to drive about 10 miles away to a competitor because she saw them there recently.
When he left, she got chewed out by the owner BIG TIME! He told her, next time she'd lose her job.

Another friend worked at REI and had just completed a thru-hike. She was caught talking a future thru-hiker out of the $200+ leather boots and into a pair of $100 trail runners. AGain, she was reprimanded for it and learned that if she wanted to keep her job, she had to start milking the customers for as much money as possible.

.

On the other hand, with two major outfitters here, (REI and Mountain Gear) both regularly refer me to the other if needed.

[A-Train]

I used to date a girl that worked at an outfitter. One time someone came in looking for some fingerless gloves which the outfitter didn't have. She told them to drive about 10 miles away to a competitor because she saw them there recently.
When he left, she got chewed out by the owner BIG TIME! He told her, next time she'd lose her job.

Another friend worked at REI and had just completed a thru-hike. She was caught talking a future thru-hiker out of the $200+ leather boots and into a pair of $100 trail runners. AGain, she was reprimanded for it and learned that if she wanted to keep her job, she had to start milking the customers for as much money as possible.

Sad but true.

Not saying all outfitters are like this. But it does happen more than you think.
It's a fine line between a good salesman and someone who separates you from your money.

My co-workers and I routinely sent people elsewhere if we didn't have what they were looking for. Additionally I often tried to talk people out of hulking hiking boots when they needed something to go on a day hike for one occasion.

Your bosses might not appreciate making less money, but the customer appreciates being told the truth or an honest opinion, and in turn that will benefit your boss (the owner), when they continue to go back to the shop because they feel like the staff are treating them fairly and honestly.

[Tin Man]

the customer appreciates being told the truth or an honest opinion, and in turn that will benefit your boss (the owner), when they continue to go back to the shop because they feel like the staff are treating them fairly and honestly.

correct. it is all about the customer. the good customers will keep coming back for good service. some get it, many don't.

[buzzamania]

IBut if your okay with stealing a stores time and knowledge - then more power to your cheap ass...... Karma will get you and I hope its on a cold rainy night, when everything is soaked and that gear you saved $30.00 on by buyn off the internet, right after you screwed over the nice retailer/saleperson who spent 2 hours of his time explaining stuff and helping you fit it properly - fails you!!
-
No, I dont do retail sales. Some things are right and some are wrong, if your not man/woman enough to own up to doing the right thing - you deserve what you get.

Once again this is just business, these people are paid, SALES people. They are to help customers to the extent that they BUY something. If after 2 hours of SELLING you aren't guilted into a modest purchase then the SALES team failed. Window shopping is nothing new, comparison shopping is as old as business itself. Most people don't have money to drop on an overpriced retailer just because they are worried about Karma. If an item costs 30 or 40 bucks cheaper online why would you bother? I admit that I am a total noob in the world of hiking but business and selling are my thing. I have lived off of commission before and I knew that I had to get'r dun to take care of myself and fam. Market forces will continue to the change the outdoor gear industry because the "haves" will have their income redistributed to the "have nots" further driving down the obscene prices.

[Wise Old Owl]

I go away for a weekend and threads like this get started... and well answered. Hard for me to add 2 cents to the thread when Bearpaw and 4eyedbuzzard have already done such a good job.

Rant Away Phoenix, you are welcome and I am sure you will have some darn good ideas to add to WB, but in your own words, I am appalled you like Dick Sporting Goods over a local outfitter, although you didn't say it, you came across with your post "I'm a know it all and I don't need help and the folks at the local overpriced outfitters are dummys."

"Caves" like Dick Sporting Goods & Sport Authority refuse to pay minimum wage for people in the camping department when the bulk of their income comes from Golf, Hunting & Fish, Treadmills & Clothes. The Coleman product is expected to sell itself. Guess what, I worked in one of these caves. I would trade any day to work at REI. It wouldn't be much pay but the rewards would be great. Everyone there is a hiking, biking enthusiast with great ideas and good work ethic.

Ohh and before anyone takes this the wrong way let me put this out there, I am not a know it all, But I do have years of experience in retail & loss prevention. "Wise Old OWL" is a trail name given to me for my interests in raptors and Hawk Mountain, nothing makes my night like last night, listening to a Great Horn Owl calling out in the cold to find a mate.

[Tin Man]

Once again this is just business, these people are paid, SALES people. They are to help customers to the extent that they BUY something. If after 2 hours of SELLING you aren't guilted into a modest purchase then the SALES team failed. Window shopping is nothing new, comparison shopping is as old as business itself. Most people don't have money to drop on an overpriced retailer just because they are worried about Karma. If an item costs 30 or 40 bucks cheaper online why would you bother? I admit that I am a total noob in the world of hiking but business and selling are my thing. I have lived off of commission before and I knew that I had to get'r dun to take care of myself and fam. Market forces will continue to the change the outdoor gear industry because the "haves" will have their income redistributed to the "have nots" further driving down the obscene prices.

yep, everyone who has, should give... to you... cause you're special.

[copythat]

For what it's worth, Backpacker named North Cove Outfitters of Old Sayville, CT Retailer of the Year.

it's old saybrook.

and for anyone anywhere near hartford county (or eastern litchfield county), there's Country Sports on Route 44 in Canton. (65-A Albany Turnpike.) i've had decent luck there in general, and they've been willing to special order some pretty odd stuff for me.