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Thread: Wapiti Shelter

  1. #41
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    Default Chief

    I wasn't trying to nor did I "nitpick" I simply gave factual info and corrected Blackclouds errors. I thought he might appreciate having the proper facts in the event he is ever in the backcountry and the subject comes up around the campfire. I know that there have been several times that this has happened on trips I've been on and I don't start the conversations trying to be a know-it-all I simply tell what I know to be accurate. He listed several items that were totally in error and not once did I offer criticism or speak in a belitting fashion. When I said GUILTY BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT I was trying to make a point regarding the scarcity of HARD EVIDENCE. Remember O.J.? the glove fit fine but when you splay your fingers apart when you try it on it will never fit! Blackcloud, if you happen to read this please understand that I meant no disrespect toward you,according to your profile you are a young guy, I'm 52 but remember this case vividly due to the fact that I camped at Wapiti I in 1980. On my thru hike I did meet a few weird characters, 1 on the hike up Blood Mt. in Georgia, and another north of Harpers Ferry near PenMar I think it was at Pleasent Valley crossing, not sure. Anyway, he was caught and served his sentence such as it was. I don't know what became of Smith after his release he would be around mid 50 now. I believe he returned to Giles County. Sincerely, Rick Hancock

  2. #42
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    Default

    Rick, your post was the most complete and factual information I have read on the Wapati murders. Thanks.
    It's a subject that haunts many of us.

  3. #43
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    Default Thanks Deb

    Thanks for your kind words. I notice you are from Hudson, N.Y. my wife is from a little town called Amsterdam, N.Y. home town of Kirk Douglas.You are correct the 1981 events do still haunt many people. I've met people who spent the night at Wapiti II, before it was removed. Although many did not know anything had happened there they still felt a "presence". We should all be thankful that we have the A.T. to enjoy but we all need to always be prepared.Rick

  4. #44

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    It would be nice to see a recent picture of this POS since he is living back in he area now.
    [COLOR="Blue"]Hokey Pokey [/COLOR]

  5. #45
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    I remember when I camped there in 2000 I had creepy vibes when I approached that area. Then, Wolf informed me about the murders that occured there. Wierd...
    Dancin' Queen

  6. #46
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    Thumbs down I'm back

    Get busy for a few days and this place goes nuts.

    Ok, my recollection from "the book" was that the murders occurred in Wapiti I, not II, as it was nearer the road and the pond. I am moving right now & have no clue where the book is. Whatever.

    As for my "NO DOUBT" comment, that was an opinion, not a fact. To expound upon my opinion, I do not believe that an objective, rational person looking at the evidence could conclude that anyone other then Randall Lee Smith killed those people. There is no credible evidence indicating anyone else.

    Now let's talk about evidence. There are two kinds: direct, and circumstancial. The term "hard evidence" is a colloquilism for direct evidence. Examples of hard evidence in a murder case would include: a murder weapon (gun), a video of the murder, and/or a confession (didn't he confess, I can't remember). Circumstancial evidence would include a video of the defendant and the deceased walking together 30 minutes before the murder, testimony as to the defendant's possible motive, and/or possessions (clothes) of the deceased in the defendant's possession after the murder (like in Randall Lee's house).

    The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled, and I believe more then once, that a capital murder conviction can be had solely on circumstantial evidence. In fact, many (most?) "white collar" cases only involve circumstantial evidence.

    So the notion that Randall Lee's conviction is somehow suspect on the grounds that the evidence only included bloody clothes, bullet holes of a caliber from a gun Randall Lee was known to own, and a confession of the defendant is without merit. Let's not even get into the circumstantial evidence of him fleeing to Norfolk to elude capture.

    Finally, every element of every crime must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt". All attempts to define that phrase short of indicating that it is less than "No doubt" and more then "a preponderance of the evidence" have been struck down as unconstitutional.

    And despite my age, I am an attorney, so I just might have a clue on this stuff....
    Be Prepared

  7. #47
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    Default Wapiti II

    This will be my last post concerning the 1981 murders at Wapiti II. Blackcloud, before I begin, did you read my post? Did you understand that I meant no disrespect toward you? Heck I don't know you! Before I begin however, I do need to make one correction (here I go again) Randall Smith did not flee to Norfolk, Va. that area is north and east of Pearisburg he fled to Myrtle Beach, S.C. south and east of Pearisburg. Sorry.I agree with you 100% he was guilty, I know it, you know it, the judge knew it, the lawyers knew it, the jury, the town of Pearisburg, the man selling peanuts on the corner, they all knew it. But the evidence was all circumstantial, by some twist of fate this loser with his low IQ and lack of social skills was able to plead to a lesser sentence. And while he served time I don't believe he served enough time for killing two innocent people. I to included info that was in error. I stated that he lived at the Warwick Motel while working at Newport News Ship Building in Newport News, Va. He actually stayed at the Colony Hotel (both have been torn down). Anyway I hope to see you on the trail someday. Rick

  8. #48
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    Default the shelter

    I must after reading all replies to this thread add the following:
    1. I have lived in Giles County all my life but for four long years in the USMC
    2. Smith lived in a very very small house with his mother (Easy to search)
    3. The 1st search of his house the law found nothing
    4. Only searching the second time did the law find anything (read into that what you like)
    5. Almost every male of Smith's age in this county own one or more firearms
    6. Riding thru the mountains and visiting the near-by pond was common for many residents
    7. I also think Smith did it but a conviction was going to be diffucult
    The Captain

  9. #49
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    Thumbs up

    Now that we're all in agreement, if anyone finds info about Smith's whereabouts today,

    by all means.........
    Be Prepared

  10. #50
    Registered User DesertMTB's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCloud View Post
    Now that we're all in agreement, if anyone finds info about Smith's whereabouts today,

    by all means.........

    Too late

  11. #51
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    Default Randall Lee Smith story on Dateline

    "...labled as overly qualified for janitorical deployment..."

  12. #52
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    Default

    Everybody know what happened to Randall Smith now?
    John Carnahan
    [email protected]

  13. #53

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LBJ View Post
    Everybody know what happened to Randall Smith now?
    He went to his reward last year. Discussed in this other thread on WB--
    Randall Lee Smith reported dead

    Was on Dateline MSNBC last evening.

    Rain Man

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    [I]ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: ... Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit....[/I]. Numbers 35

    [url]www.MeetUp.com/NashvilleBackpacker[/url]

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  14. #54

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    I watched a TV show on Dateline on this last night,oops, just read the above post, never mind!
    ad astra per aspera

  15. #55

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    Double post, sorry.
    ad astra per aspera

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet Chuck View Post
    I remember staying at Wapiti Shelter in 82 on my AT hike. the one I stayed at was on a hill ovelooking a woods, forest road about 100' down from the front. This I beleve is Wapiti I, don't know if they were building the new one then or the next year.

    Forrest Gump
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hancock View Post
    I spent the night here on my 1980 thru-hike, I remember it was very near a gravel fire road, several vehicles traveled by during the night. The following year, May 1981 2 hikers were killed here.
    My theory is that these type of incidents happen in fairly close proximity to roads. Just a theory.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    5-8 years for a double murder?
    That is disturbing.
    He got 7.5 years for each murder. Served 15 I believe.
    "If I get started in the right direction, I just might get to where I want to go." -- Tab Benoit

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief View Post
    Since you're gonna nit pick, I know of no state where you have to prove a case BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. Beyond "reasonable doubt" will do just fine.
    The Dateline transcript I read (darn, I didn't know this was on) indicated that the prosecution reached a plea bargain with Smith before it ever went to trial. The officer that led the investigation was not happy. He was told there were too many holes in the case.
    "If I get started in the right direction, I just might get to where I want to go." -- Tab Benoit

  19. #59
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    I remember coming upon Wapiti 1 back in 86 thinking that was where the murder took place so I went on to Wapiti 2 to stay. Found out later the murder happened at W 2.
    Lone Wolf in a shelter??? Say it isnt true!

  20. #60
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    We stopped in at Wapiti on Saturday. It looks really nice but there is lots of trash near/in the fire ring.

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