Wrong, and you won't admit that or the fact that this topic is beyond your realm of expertise. Admit your mistake or drop it and start another thread.Originally Posted by minnesotasmith
That's my dog, Echo. He's a fine young dog.
Smith once again you prove that ignorance prejudice and fear walk hand in hand in your world. I am truly sorry for you. Having worked in a counseling environment in the past I have seen what giving a child an opportunity for success can bring. But you are entitled to continue to paint your world view with the wide brush that you seem to prefer to use. Its much easier that way to white wash things rather than look at the details that make things unique and different. I for one would prefer to share a camp with this group of kids rather than you than you I believe that their view on the world, even given their current station in life, would be much more bright.
How many people actually come from a perfect home life? There are many success stories out there. Greg Laurie and Joyce Meyers quickly comes to mind. Then there is my mother-in-law, all my brothers and sisters, ...... I think that we sometimes have to walk this path in our life in order to help someone else on the same path. It also builds character, strength and faith and I guess compassion.
Lunchbx- i worked at Timber Ridge in NC and can tell you all about it...I'll send you a PM. Hope to talk to you soon!
When are the pancakes coming in the mail?
4) I had a long private conversation once on the AT with the adult counselor head of such a group. He volunteered that such programs were primarily just a way to warehouse such minors at minimum risk to the productive part of the society until they were old enough for jail (if male) or jail and/or single motherhood on welfare (if female). The woods setting was more so the kids had less access to theft/vandalism opportunities, more than BC the woods would be healthy or pleasing to them.
Wow- try working at one of these programs and tell me that the wilderness doesn't help out these boys. While i was working at Timber Ridge two of the boys got into a fight over something idiotic. One attacked another one with a large stick- after we got them apart we sat in a huddle and tried to clam them down they noticed a bug that had got caught in a spider web. The two boys (and one other) watched the spider catch and spin the bug in its web for twenty minutes without a word. Afterwards they acted like best friends talking about how cool it was. The calming ability of nature has been proven many times over. Try reading "Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv- it'll shed light on the subject.
When are the pancakes coming in the mail?
Grey Fox...
It wasn't my opinion, but that of someone whose job it was (and had been for quite a while, surely years) to supervise groups of delinquents in the woods. I believed at the time (and still do) that he was giving not only his opinion of the main use to the programs as they actually operated, but also what he had observed were the apparent goals of those overseeing them at high levels. I think he was entitled to opinions in this area worth taking seriously, whether or not they're politically correct.
Oh, and it's not "ignorance" or "bigotry" to have a negative opinion of people who act a certain way (e.g., commit petty crimes like theft from an early age, refuse to work or attend school, litter, set fires in the woods, whatever). It can be greater knowledge that leads to such considered judgements. Arguably, the more-positive opinion holders may often be the far more ignorant or bigoted ones (just in a different direction)...
Someone I truly hope to never have the misfortune to meet.
Interesting...
Do you prefer to associate only with ignorant and/or dishonest people?
When MS starts talking about ignorance & bigotry, pay close attention. Those are two subjects he is an expert on.
Again, the kids in this program are not juvenile delinquents. Read the article: http://www.newstimes.com/ci_10281509
It's a community outreach program. Here is the website:http://www.facfc.org/cs.php
That's my dog, Echo. He's a fine young dog.
Too bad an opinion can ignite such PC fervor; in Minnesota's defense there are big time indicators of anti social behavior and mostly these kids corraled into "outdoor programs," end up in long term "indoor confinement." Jumping around from the specific to the general, like this entire thread has done; generally, if trends, profiling, and predetermination are so unfair why isn't 50 percent of the prison population female? Why do insurance companies charge big premiums for under 25 yo drivers ? Why am i more nervous in a dark alley with low hanging head bangers than rugby players? I'll tell you why, there are traits that follow groups of people.
Since when did fact morph into political correctness?
Good question, MOWGLI...
I'd say hardly ever.
when is you cummin to AK, MS...I'd say hardly ever.
"I'd rather kill a man than a snake. Not because I love snakes or hate men. It is a question, rather, of proportion." Edward Abbey
Well, since you're the one spouting factual inaccuracies about the program discussed in this article, and replacing facts with trite generalizations, it's pretty clear who being PC, and who is not.
That's still on the agenda, Smoky...
No later than April after next year's thruhike. (May have to go back to work in "Outside" to get a stake for moving first.) The GF is all fired up to go there, loving what she has seen in my Alaska books, what she's seen online, and what little I've been able to tell her from my modest time in Alaska. The latter consists solely of a few days in Anchorage, and working a little on the North Slope and in Kenai. I want more of Alaska than that, much more...
Well, since you're the one spouting factual inaccuracies about the program discussed in this article, and replacing facts with trite generalizations, it's pretty clear who being PC, and who is not.
Generalizations are just that; generalizations. It's typically cited trite specifics that somehow are supposed to defeat obviously established generalizations. I knew a few kids that benefitted from forced woodsmanship; IMHO most do not. Heck, there is likely a fraction of Boy Scouts that don't !! Blasphemy!!!
Exactly, daibutsu...
One collection of statistics on what can be expected from many such "high-risk" children: (Warning! Contains facts! Those offended by such should NOT click on this link!)
http://www.childrensjustice.org/fatherlessness2.htm
And, that doesn't even touch on the ones growing up around (or even using) controlled substances from an early age..
Well, when those trite generalizations tow the typical party line, facts be damned, and are offered to try and advance an agenda (see post #38), then it crosses the line and becomes political correctness.
Back to the subject at hand, I have met quite a few groups (and their leaders) in the woods working with troubled youth. Fact is, violent youth and kids who are a real threat to themselves or others are rarely eligible for such programs. Those kids are incarcerated.
Perhaps, but that's hardly the whole story...
That top adult leader of such a group I talked at length to told me that the kids were all thieves, if not overly cunning/bright about it.
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