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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta View Post
    What more could a party of bear hunters ask for, but a bear who comes close and hangs around?
    Isn't that more or less how most black bear hunting is done?

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow View Post
    Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.
    Most of the big ones here are fairly docile supermoms, old female bears that often have 3 or more cubs every other year. Most of the males are shot before they get very large. Most Black Bear hunting in the east is like farming, plus some smoke and mirrors.

  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Most of the big ones here are fairly docile supermoms, old female bears that often have 3 or more cubs every other year. Most of the males are shot before they get very large. Most Black Bear hunting in the east is like farming, plus some smoke and mirrors.
    Well, it ain't like "farming" in GA, it is fair-chase, no baiting allowed. I'm not dissing Mainers or Canadians who hunt bear over bait, that's their business and their biologists have arrived at that method as a viable harvest method but I'll never do it. I've been told that hound hunting for bears is legal in east TN, it'll land you in jail in GA. That is how we wound up with no bears. For all you anti-hunters out there, GA's bear population is, according to GA DNR biologists, at the lands' carrying capacity of 1500 bears. If it gets to 2000 we'll start seeing some really hungry bears, and human-bear conflict will increase, usually to the bears' detriment.

  4. #184

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    They bait in AK and it always seem to come to trouble.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by take-a-knee View Post
    Well, it ain't like "farming" in GA, it is fair-chase, no baiting allowed. I'm not dissing Mainers or Canadians who hunt bear over bait, that's their business and their biologists have arrived at that method as a viable harvest method but I'll never do it. I've been told that hound hunting for bears is legal in east TN, it'll land you in jail in GA. That is how we wound up with no bears. For all you anti-hunters out there, GA's bear population is, according to GA DNR biologists, at the lands' carrying capacity of 1500 bears. If it gets to 2000 we'll start seeing some really hungry bears, and human-bear conflict will increase, usually to the bears' detriment.
    I would agree that it's complicated and should be determined on a state by state province by province basis, and based primarily on sound science and traditions rather than commercial and development and political interests. I am not totally against baiting, or even baits combined with traps, but I would rather see bears managed as a commercial fur trade rather than as a sport. As a commercial sport things get rather twisted, and that could lead to mismanagement. People should be willing to pay more for a bear rug, and less to shoot a bear attracted by donuts and held in a trap. Fair chase sounds interesting. I'm not sure if I can run that fast.

  6. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckwheat View Post
    Interesting article. I think it's proof of a theory I have. Here's the two interesting paragraphs:

    "Woolly mammoths, giant armadillos and three species of camels were among more than 30 mammals that were hunted to extinction by North American humans 13,000 to 12,000 years ago, according to the most realistic, sophisticated computer model to date.

    John Alroy, a researcher with the National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis (NCEAS) at the University of California, Santa Barbara, performed the modeling and is the single author of the paper. NCEAS houses the best ecosystem computer modeling capacity available, according to Alroy."

    So, according to the sole author of the study, a computer model predicts that prehistoric humans hunted some animals to extinction. How does he know? His computer model predicts it. Who built his computer model? He did. Is it the best computer model available? Yes! According to the sole author of the study and the model!

    This is what passes for science today ... one guy, with a computer, modeling his desired outcome, and then assuring us that his model is the best model available (take his word for it). This information is then cited as proof of a "consensus" in science.
    Hey, I'm on your side. I always hoped early North American people did not hunt some mammals to extinction to add credence to current American Indian voices that they lived in balance with their environment, etc. They did have a huge population of bison when the Europeans arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by take-a-knee View Post
    I've been told that hound hunting for bears is legal in east TN, it'll land you in jail in GA. That is how we wound up with no bears. For all you anti-hunters out there, GA's bear population is, according to GA DNR biologists, at the lands' carrying capacity of 1500 bears. If it gets to 2000 we'll start seeing some really hungry bears, and human-bear conflict will increase, usually to the bears' detriment.
    I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.

    Meanwhile, the hunters are sleeping in a warm bed and could give a hoot. The dogs eventually run a bear and corner it often up a tree and the glorious hunters in their proud southern hunting tradition fire away. Sometimes the bear is too remote and too big to haul out, a few pieces instead are hauled away.; Pieces I'm sure a thinking, feeling bear would much prefer to keep on his person so he can continue to sport thru the winter in his bear body.

    To me the black bear is a last symbol of wilderness, like the bald eagle, and should be treated as such, left alone and never "culled". Your comment of the "land's carrying capacity of 1500 bears" sounds like typical humans-playing-God homo-rapiens xenophobia. We've become self-appointed king ant lords in the big mammal harvest, and call it the Science of Natural Resource Management. To me it's just another form of eugenics where a "superior race" eliminates the "undesiables" by selective culling for mammals not having a "warranted existence." What is the land's carrying capacity of human beings? No one asks this question cuz no one cares to know.

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOWGLI View Post
    A 650 pounder was killed in the last 10 years near Unionville, NY. That's right off the trail. Some of the biggest bears near the trail can be found in NY & NJ.
    they are in ct and ma now too.

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Hey, I'm on your side. I always hoped early North American people did not hunt some mammals to extinction to add credence to current American Indian voices that they lived in balance with their environment, etc. They did have a huge population of bison when the Europeans arrived.
    bison was replaced by far tastier bovine steaks


    I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.

    Meanwhile, the hunters are sleeping in a warm bed and could give a hoot. The dogs eventually run a bear and corner it often up a tree and the glorious hunters in their proud southern hunting tradition fire away. Sometimes the bear is too remote and too big to haul out, a few pieces instead are hauled away.; Pieces I'm sure a thinking, feeling bear would much prefer to keep on his person so he can continue to sport thru the winter in his bear body.
    between the dog chases, baiting, and shooting a standing target from several hundreds yards away, i fail to see the word sport in hunting these days.

    To me the black bear is a last symbol of wilderness, like the bald eagle, and should be treated as such, left alone and never "culled". Your comment of the "land's carrying capacity of 1500 bears" sounds like typical humans-playing-God homo-rapiens xenophobia. We've become self-appointed king ant lords in the big mammal harvest, and call it the Science of Natural Resource Management. To me it's just another form of eugenics where a "superior race" eliminates the "undesiables" by selective culling for mammals not having a "warranted existence." What is the land's carrying capacity of human beings? No one asks this question cuz no one cares to know.
    land capacity to carry bears is rated against there need to expand their territory and raid people's backyards.

    land's natural people carrying capacity has been supplanted by modern farming techniques. now the earth's capacity is based on how long it will take us to burn through all natural resources or choke ourselves trying or an extinction event

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by slow View Post
    Show me a 400#lb on the A.T.And if so pic please?They are dumpster divers even @350#.
    how many people have to tell you your wrong before you start believing it. The further north you go on the trail the larger the bears get. Why are you so insistent in your belief that there are no 400# or larger bears on the trail? Especially when youve been given lots of info to the contrary on this thread?

  10. #190

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    Well, he is slow

  11. #191

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    My advice to you is to camp at walnut Mt. shelter alone with your food in your tent. You will see a 400# bear if you stay there long enough.

  12. #192
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    [quote=Tipi Walter;

    I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.
    [/quote]
    400 hunters? I've told you a million times not to exagerate!!
    If you find yourself in a fair fight; your tactics suck.

  13. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    400 hunters? I've told you a million times not to exagerate!!
    This is no exaggeration. The forest service conducts annual bear and pig hunts for 5 to 7 days a year(or more)and are "organized" hunts in the sense that they are large hunts for a short period of time. Where I backpack in east TN(Monroe county)there are short designated dates for bear hunting:

    Oct 8-9
    Oct 20-21
    Nov 12-15
    Nov 29-Dec 12

    http://www.twraregion4.org/TWRAHunti...earSeasons.htm

    It was during these last dates(Nov 29-Dec 12)that I saw the most concentrated numbers of hunters in a relatively small area. The "harvested" bears from Monroe country alone this year were around 70 with a total east TN population of around 1000 to 1500. The total state cull was around 450 for 2008.

    http://www.twraregion4.org/TWRAHunti...Management.htm
    This webpage goes into detail about bear hunting in TN and has a lot of facts and figures.

  14. #194
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    I misunderstood you. I thought you ment all 400 hunting together in the same party. I have bear and bobcat hunted with hounds. It is no easy thing. Most folks think the dogs chase the bear up the tree and you drive your truck up to it, get out and then shoot the bear. No sweat. That may happen ocasionally but I have never seen it. I have spent days crawling through swamps trying to get in front of the bear or cat. It was brutal hard work. The hound people I know, love and care for their dogs. We have spent all night tracking down a dog that wont quit or gets lost.
    We have also tracked down a couple bears that were problems to hikers. Usually the DNR will let you know where problem bears are. One was a bear that hung around a campground charging hikers and intimidating them out of their packs. Bears are a renewable resource like any other game animal. As long as the meat doesn't go to waste, I see no problem with hunting them.
    If you find yourself in a fair fight; your tactics suck.

  15. #195
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    Interesting

  16. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound View Post
    how many people have to tell you your wrong before you start believing it. The further north you go on the trail the larger the bears get. Why are you so insistent in your belief that there are no 400# or larger bears on the trail? Especially when youve been given lots of info to the contrary on this thread?
    Fish look big to,till you pull them out of the water.

  17. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    Well, he is slow
    It seem's,you are slow with fact's.

  18. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound View Post
    My advice to you is to camp at walnut Mt. shelter alone with your food in your tent. You will see a 400# bear if you stay there long enough.
    Can i bring a full garbage can and leave it outside my tent,so i can be the first to take a pic of this great monster you talk about?

  19. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    bison was replaced by far tastier bovine steaks




    between the dog chases, baiting, and shooting a standing target from several hundreds yards away, i fail to see the word sport in hunting these days.



    land capacity to carry bears is rated against there need to expand their territory and raid people's backyards.

    land's natural people carrying capacity has been supplanted by modern farming techniques. now the earth's capacity is based on how long it will take us to burn through all natural resources or choke ourselves trying or an extinction event
    Two questions Tin Man, will you teach me to shoot like you? I'm a graduate of the premier sniper school on this planet yet I have a hard time hitting those, "standing targets, several hundred yards away"?

    Also, since human habitation is encroaching on bear the population, why don't you sell whatever land/property you own or donate it to the Wilderness Society?

  20. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Hey, I'm on your side. I always hoped early North American people did not hunt some mammals to extinction to add credence to current American Indian voices that they lived in balance with their environment, etc. They did have a huge population of bison when the Europeans arrived.



    I've been out recently in east TN backpacking and get to see the wonderful bear hunters with their dozens of dogs and their "organized hunts" comprising 400 or more hunters all out in pick up trucks with their dogs. Some state agency condones large hunts and the use of hundreds of dogs roaming the woods. Some of the dog don't get back home and instead attach themselves to the first hiker they see, sleeping in camp, pulling food out of tents or off trees, clawing tent flys, and shivering all night in starvation mode.

    Meanwhile, the hunters are sleeping in a warm bed and could give a hoot. The dogs eventually run a bear and corner it often up a tree and the glorious hunters in their proud southern hunting tradition fire away. Sometimes the bear is too remote and too big to haul out, a few pieces instead are hauled away.; Pieces I'm sure a thinking, feeling bear would much prefer to keep on his person so he can continue to sport thru the winter in his bear body.

    To me the black bear is a last symbol of wilderness, like the bald eagle, and should be treated as such, left alone and never "culled". Your comment of the "land's carrying capacity of 1500 bears" sounds like typical humans-playing-God homo-rapiens xenophobia. We've become self-appointed king ant lords in the big mammal harvest, and call it the Science of Natural Resource Management. To me it's just another form of eugenics where a "superior race" eliminates the "undesiables" by selective culling for mammals not having a "warranted existence." What is the land's carrying capacity of human beings? No one asks this question cuz no one cares to know.
    You skipped right into fruitcake territory with that post Tipi. Homo-rapiens huh.

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